Defense against TD's

This is the 3rd straight game where our D did'nt allow a TD by an opposing offense--13 straight quarters without an offense scoring a TD on us.



Our Defense allowed 3 points in the last 3 games=-average of 1 point allowed by the D in the last 3 games.

I feel like I'm watching 2001 in reverse. Why is such a great defense cursed to have such a crappy offense?



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And in '01 we were cursed with an atrocious defense. Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive at BYU? BYU would go undefeated this year with this defense, and a average offense even. Unfortunately we're stuck with this sorry mess.

The funny thing is, if we get Riley back healthy, our offense will suddenly look so much better.

Right now, that's a big if...

Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

so then we need to get a Riley nelson back that was as healthy as he was when he went 7-1 last year and the 1st game this year. I am really happy that Taysom has gotten the reps he has gotten this year. he is legit, he is a player, he is special, he is going to make us all very happy in the next couple of years, but he is a freshman. I hope we can get Riley back and keep him healthy for the rest of the year. With this defense, and a healthy Riley Nelson, we run the table from here out.

frdbtr wrote:

Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

so then we need to get a Riley nelson back that was as healthy as he was when he went 7-1 last year and the 1st game this year. I am really happy that Taysom has gotten the reps he has gotten this year. he is legit, he is a player, he is special, he is going to make us all very happy in the next couple of years, but he is a freshman. I hope we can get Riley back and keep him healthy for the rest of the year. With this defense, and a healthy Riley Nelson, we run the table from here out.

I'd rather not have that Riley, personally. That Riley would lose at least 4 games this year. we have a better shot with Taysom or Lark, at this point. Riley is limited. He can't make some of the throws that Taysom was making tonight, even when "healthy" as you all like to mislabel him.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

so then we need to get a Riley nelson back that was as healthy as he was when he went 7-1 last year and the 1st game this year. I am really happy that Taysom has gotten the reps he has gotten this year. he is legit, he is a player, he is special, he is going to make us all very happy in the next couple of years, but he is a freshman. I hope we can get Riley back and keep him healthy for the rest of the year. With this defense, and a healthy Riley Nelson, we run the table from here out.

I'd rather not have that Riley, personally. That Riley would lose at least 4 games this year. we have a better shot with Taysom or Lark, at this point. Riley is limited. He can't make some of the throws that Taysom was making tonight, even when "healthy" as you all like to mislabel him.

Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm? Riley is the best QB on the roster when healthy and if he would have played healthy today, we would have won by 2-3 touchdowns.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

so then we need to get a Riley nelson back that was as healthy as he was when he went 7-1 last year and the 1st game this year. I am really happy that Taysom has gotten the reps he has gotten this year. he is legit, he is a player, he is special, he is going to make us all very happy in the next couple of years, but he is a freshman. I hope we can get Riley back and keep him healthy for the rest of the year. With this defense, and a healthy Riley Nelson, we run the table from here out.

I'd rather not have that Riley, personally. That Riley would lose at least 4 games this year. we have a better shot with Taysom or Lark, at this point. Riley is limited. He can't make some of the throws that Taysom was making tonight, even when "healthy" as you all like to mislabel him.

Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm? Riley is the best QB on the roster when healthy and if he would have played healthy today, we would have won by 2-3 touchdowns.

Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there? Riley was a product of being in the right place at the right time. He cracked when he faced a good defense. Just like 2010 Air Force, Florida St, 2011 Utah TCU and Tulsa, and 2012 Utah and Boise.



How many times do you all need to see him absolutely flounder against an average or better defense to know that he is not that good? Honestly.



And forget this figment that Riley is healthy. He isn't. He is always hiding an injury, to the detriment of his team. We can win with a fantastic defense and Lark or Hill. I can't believe anyone is actually bringing up getting the turnover machine back in the game. He was responsible for 10 turnovers between the Utah and BSU game, and you want to get him right back in there 2 weeks later? I don't get it. I honestly don't. He is single handedly responsible for our 2 losses, and you want the ball right back in his uncapable hands? Against the best defense that we will see this year? Wow.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Riley hasn't been healthy since 2009.



Our defense is spectacular. We will be tops in the nation in run defense by Sunday. That is impressive, considering the run heavy offenses we have played.

so then we need to get a Riley nelson back that was as healthy as he was when he went 7-1 last year and the 1st game this year. I am really happy that Taysom has gotten the reps he has gotten this year. he is legit, he is a player, he is special, he is going to make us all very happy in the next couple of years, but he is a freshman. I hope we can get Riley back and keep him healthy for the rest of the year. With this defense, and a healthy Riley Nelson, we run the table from here out.

I'd rather not have that Riley, personally. That Riley would lose at least 4 games this year. we have a better shot with Taysom or Lark, at this point. Riley is limited. He can't make some of the throws that Taysom was making tonight, even when "healthy" as you all like to mislabel him.

Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm? Riley is the best QB on the roster when healthy and if he would have played healthy today, we would have won by 2-3 touchdowns.

Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there? Riley was a product of being in the right place at the right time. He cracked when he faced a good defense. Just like 2010 Air Force, Florida St, 2011 Utah TCU and Tulsa, and 2012 Utah and Boise.



How many times do you all need to see him absolutely flounder against an average or better defense to know that he is not that good? Honestly.



And forget this figment that Riley is healthy. He isn't. He is always hiding an injury, to the detriment of his team. We can win with a fantastic defense and Lark or Hill. I can't believe anyone is actually bringing up getting the turnover machine back in the game. He was responsible for 10 turnovers between the Utah and BSU game, and you want to get him right back in there 2 weeks later? I don't get it. I honestly don't. He is single handedly responsible for our 2 losses, and you want the ball right back in his uncapable hands? Against the best defense that we will see this year? Wow.

He put up 28 points against TCU last year, he put up 21 against utah this year and if it wasn't for a fumbled snap, he would have probably put up 28 on utah and won the game this year. He was playing at "65%" against BSU this year (IMO he was probably closer to 30%). Last year with an injury, we beat tulsa not sure why he is being criticized for that one. One thing that gets old with BYU fans is the bitching that happens if BYU doesn't win "pretty". Freaking enjoy it we started a freshman QB and a freshman RB and beat a very good and determined USU team today. Enjoy the win.

Q: Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm?



A: Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there?



Still waiting for you to answer me there. You brought up the "deep balls/ cannon for an arm" comparison. What was his PER against those teams? What was his longest "on target" throw (I don't officially include the one where he hucked the ball up in the air and Jacobsen ran under it.)



You asked the question, now answer it? How many against those teams?

frdbtr wrote:



He put up 28 points against TCU last year (while giving the ball away, 4 times, was it?), he put up 21 against utah this year and if it wasn't for a fumbled snap, he would have probably put up 28 on utah and won the game this year. T HIll and Williams scored one of the touchdowns. Riley was resposible for 14. He was playing at "65%" against BSU this year (IMO he was probably closer to 30%). Last year with an injury, we beat tulsa not sure why he is being criticized for that one. Becuase he had a miserable PER, we punted 9 times, and the only reason that we won is that we had a stellar D from everyone not named Uale, and they were a very poor defense, compared with our very good one. And he was still ineffective, even against a 90th ranked defense .

One thing that gets old with BYU fans is the bitching that happens if BYU doesn't win "pretty". I don't care about winning pretty. I care about winning. Riley nelson does not do that against average teams.

Fixed your post for you.



I love how Riley is always conveniently "hurt" when he plays like garbage. I don't care whether or not he is hurt. If he is playing like garbage, then he shouldn't be on the field. Riley pissed away 2 games for us this year. With Hill or Lark in both games, we win Utah and BSU and are 6-0. That is highly indisputable based on the on-field performance.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

He put up 28 points against TCU last year (while giving the ball away, 4 times, was it?), he put up 21 against utah this year and if it wasn't for a fumbled snap, he would have probably put up 28 on utah and won the game this year. T HIll and Williams scored one of the touchdowns. Riley was resposible for 14. He was playing at "65%" against BSU this year (IMO he was probably closer to 30%). Last year with an injury, we beat tulsa not sure why he is being criticized for that one. Becuase he had a miserable PER, we punted 9 times, and the only reason that we won is that we had a stellar D from everyone not named Uale, and they were a very poor defense, compared with our very good one. And he was still ineffective, even against a 90th ranked defense .

One thing that gets old with BYU fans is the bitching that happens if BYU doesn't win "pretty". I don't care about winning pretty. I care about winning. Riley nelson does not do that against average teams.

Fixed your post for you.



I love how Riley is always conveniently "hurt" when he plays like garbage. I don't care whether or not he is hurt. If he is playing like garbage, then he shouldn't be on the field. Riley pissed away 2 games for us this year. With Hill or Lark in both games, we win Utah and BSU and are 6-0. That is highly indisputable based on the on-field performance.

So who drove the ball down the field on that score you took away from Riley? How many points did BYU's offense put up on Tulsa last year? What was the final score? If you only care about winning why are you criticizing Riley for beating tulsa? If you want to criticize Riley for giving the ball away 4 times in the TCU game, why can't you give him credit for the 28 points he scored in that game and maybe criticize the Special teams who literally handed TCU 28 of their 38 points on a silver platter causing BYU's offense to play from behind all night long trying to make up for the freebies? You guys only see the negative. We have a great product. It isn't perfect but it is a great product that is getting better. When Riley and our starting RB went down with injury it put BYU's offense back in rebuilding mode. Live with it and quit bitching.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Q: Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm?



A: Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there?



Still waiting for you to answer me there. You brought up the "deep balls/ cannon for an arm" comparison. What was his PER against those teams? What was his longest "on target" throw (I don't officially include the one where he hucked the ball up in the air and Jacobsen ran under it.)



You asked the question, now answer it? How many against those teams?

You said that Riley couldn't make the throws in BYU's offense. He put up 28 points against TCU, had a 60 yard bomb against USU that kept the winning drive going, 4th and 12 against utah, Boise was just plain bad. Tulsa he didn't have any deep balls be we won that game and you claim that you don't care about winning pretty, just winning so you should take that one off of your list, unless of course you are not telling the truth when you say you only care about winning.

You brought up the comparison. I can't wait (a la Bart Scott) until Riley Nelson is gone from this university. He won't ever beat a good team. It won't happen, but fans like you keep holding on to wins against USU and Tulsa like they even mean anything. And then everything else becomes suddenly not Rileys fault. It was some *other* reason that we didn't win.



I can't wait to read a thread without his name being mentioned anymore. It will be a gift from the gods.



Our defense is amazing, and with T HIll or Lark at qb we are 6-0. Can you debate that? Then stop "hoping for a healthy RIley" so we can lose to more good teams.

frdbtr wrote:

Q: Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm?



A: Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there?



Still waiting for you to answer me there. You brought up the "deep balls/ cannon for an arm" comparison. What was his PER against those teams? What was his longest "on target" throw (I don't officially include the one where he hucked the ball up in the air and Jacobsen ran under it.)



You asked the question, now answer it? How many against those teams?

You said that Riley couldn't make the throws in BYU's offense. He put up 28 points against TCU, had a 60 yard bomb against USU that kept the winning drive going, 4th and 12 against utah, Boise was just plain bad. Tulsa he didn't have any deep balls be we won that game and you claim that you don't care about winning pretty, just winning so you should take that one off of your list, unless of course you are not telling the truth when you say you only care about winning.

I already told you I don't accept the "60 yard pass to nobody".



You are the one that brought up the "cannon arm / deep ball" comparison, and when it is spun back around to you you have nothing. I'm done arguing with a brick wall. Riley lost us 2 games this year. I care about winning. IF not for the defense he loses us Tulsa last year too.



If you like to lose, and do it in "grit fashion" then go right ahead. Taysom is the better qb. And it isn't even an argument because Riley is not now, or will ever be, healthy.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
You brought up the comparison. I can't wait (a la Bart Scott) until Riley Nelson is gone from this university. He won't ever beat a good team. It won't happen, but fans like you keep holding on to wins against USU and Tulsa like they even mean anything. And then everything else becomes suddenly not Rileys fault. It was some *other* reason that we didn't win.



I can't wait to read a thread without his name being mentioned anymore. It will be a gift from the gods.



Our defense is amazing, and with T HIll or Lark at qb we are 6-0. Can you debate that? Then stop "hoping for a healthy RIley" so we can lose to more good teams.

I like Riley Nelson, he saved our season last year because without him we lose to USU and SJSU the next week. Heaps was broken last year and Riley came in and lit a fire under our offense. I don't care if he only beat the "bad" teams on our sched last year, we won them and went 10-3. I don't know if Taysom would have won the utah game. I don't know if Lark would have won the utah game since he obviously isn't good enough to start over a freshman who was still on his mission this time last year. I am pretty sure that Taysom (given tonights game plan) would have beat BSU because the usu defense we beat tonight was better than the BSU defense we lost to 2 weeks ago. your assertion, however, that we would be 6-0 right now is a reach.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Q: Really? They why did we hit on more deep balls last year with Riley then with the guy who had a cannon for an arm?



A: Because Riley played against some of the worst defenses in the country. How many "deep balls" did he throw against TCU, Boise, or Utah? Or Tulsa last year? The 90th ranked overall defense? Or USU last year? How many deep balls there?



Still waiting for you to answer me there. You brought up the "deep balls/ cannon for an arm" comparison. What was his PER against those teams? What was his longest "on target" throw (I don't officially include the one where he hucked the ball up in the air and Jacobsen ran under it.)



You asked the question, now answer it? How many against those teams?

You said that Riley couldn't make the throws in BYU's offense. He put up 28 points against TCU, had a 60 yard bomb against USU that kept the winning drive going, 4th and 12 against utah, Boise was just plain bad. Tulsa he didn't have any deep balls be we won that game and you claim that you don't care about winning pretty, just winning so you should take that one off of your list, unless of course you are not telling the truth when you say you only care about winning.

I already told you I don't accept the "60 yard pass to nobody".



You are the one that brought up the "cannon arm / deep ball" comparison, and when it is spun back around to you you have nothing. I'm done arguing with a brick wall. Riley lost us 2 games this year. I care about winning. IF not for the defense he loses us Tulsa last year too.



If you like to lose, and do it in "grit fashion" then go right ahead. Taysom is the better qb. And it isn't even an argument because Riley is not now, or will ever be, healthy.

So, you don't accept completed passes as real passes? that is sound logic dude. I am impressed.



"without the defense we lose to tulsa"? Wow, that one is a zinger too since if BYU didn't have a defense we have a losing record in 2010 (since bronco taking over the defense was the turning point in that season) we don't go 10-3 last year and we aren't 4-2 this year either because if you really think about it, defense is half the game. We just happened to have a very good one this year. Taysom is a great QB, but he is a freshman QB that still doesn't see the field as well as our SR Riley nelson does. He doesn't run the passing offense that good or you wouldn't see so many QB draws and options called by our offensive coordinator. I am not the brick wall here.

Is it plauible, and - dare I say it - probable, that with Lark or HIll at quarterback this year we win more games than with Riley?



Can you defend his performance against Utah and BSU? A NEGATIVE 4 PER?



Hill is better than an injured Nelson. Which is all he will ever be. A gritty, rugged, amazing haired, injury prone player. Let's say he gets back to "100%" ... which we all know is somewhere in the vacinity of 80. So what? We get RN back for 1 or 2 games, and then he hets injured again? Wouldn't we be better off playing Hill for each and every one of those games, and giving him ALL of the reps? Of course we would. A 70 - 80% Nelson doesn't give us a better chance to win than a 95 - 100% HIll.



All things being equal, (which they aren't - they are stacked HEAVILY in Hills favor; but for the sake of argument), All things being equal, and with no redshirting options, you start the younger player.