Why Does Dupaix Get A Free Pass?

The Whine Bibster has heard the whining about

FROM THE TOP

Bronco

Doman

Weber

Nelson

The Ghost of Jake Heaps

The Ghost of Utah

Blue Turf

OL

Various RBs

FB

Scheme

Turnovers

Option Plays*********

Navy*********





Why does Dupaix get a free pass given the mediocre running game last year and getting worse this year? Legendary dad at Skyline High School? Don't want to give Vai any leverage on picking a Hau'ole over a poly, nobody cares about the running game, he is so invisible we forgot he is here, bigger fish to gut? Other?



Just curious.



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I'll go ahead and predict most will blame the O-line for what's lacking in the running game.

He's not getting a free pass here:



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KingCoug wrote:
I'll go ahead and predict most will blame the O-line for what's lacking in the running game.

Agreed. On the rare occasion our OL gets a good push and creates a whole our RBs get yards. No holes, though, which is why we keep trying to run on the outside.



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He is also the recruiting coordinator and seems to do a good job there. His background was the option so that could be what he is coaching here.

Larger, easier targets!

DuPaix gets a pass because our RBs have been adequate this year. Not awesome, but not a prolem either. HArd to pin anything on that unit, so that coach gets a pass.



Fact is, when those guys are given any room to run, they make plays, but hard to make plays when continually stuffed at the LoS. Even the best NFL backs have negative plays due to lines being blown up, just that ours has it happen more.



IF anything, I agains put it on Doman with how he is using them. Which is rarely in the pasing game. What have we had, maybe 5-6 balls thrown to backs all year in 4 games now? This unit is underutilized offensively.

Lawboy wrote:
DuPaix gets a pass because our RBs have been adequate this year. Not awesome, but not a prolem either. HArd to pin anything on that unit, so that coach gets a pass.



Fact is, when those guys are given any room to run, they make plays, but hard to make plays when continually stuffed at the LoS. Even the best NFL backs have negative plays due to lines being blown up, just that ours has it happen more.



IF anything, I agains put it on Doman with how he is using them. Which is rarely in the pasing game. What have we had, maybe 5-6 balls thrown to backs all year in 4 games now? This unit is underutilized offensively.

Consider me on the doman is the problem bandwagon.

When I heard that Doman and Bronco decided to put Hill at #2 rather than Lark due to the fact that his skill set better fit their new offensive scheme, that got my hackles all worked up.



First, we changed our scheme to fit Riley freaking Nelson. So rather than stick to BYU football and let the best QB play that fits that scheme, we changed it for a QB with massive limitations and is turnover prone. It also means that the BYU brand has been ditched for the spread-option offense.



Second, it tells me that our staff is not flexible enough to adjust and scheme for talent. Which explains why we suck in the 3rd quarter--lack ability to adjust. Historically, Bronco is an awful 3rd quarter coach.



Third, if I am Tanner Mangum, I am wondering why I commit to an option team, and thinking I transfer post mission. Which is what Heaps did for similar reasons. Our offense scheme is awful and our OC is not committed to developing drop back passers.



Fact is, the path that Bronco and Doman are taking our offense is killing us and hte BYU brand. And it will continue to get our QBs injured. We are too finesse at the line of scrimmage, and too cutesy behind it. I love watching our aggressive and physical D play and hate wachcing our gimmicky and absolutely inconsistent O play.

Lawboy wrote:
When I heard that Doman and Bronco decided to put Hill at #2 rather than Lark due to the fact that his skill set better fit their new offensive scheme, that got my hackles all worked up.



First, we changed our scheme to fit Riley freaking Nelson. So rather than stick to BYU football and let the best QB play that fits that scheme, we changed it for a QB with massive limitations and is turnover prone. It also means that the BYU brand has been ditched for the spread-option offense.



Second, it tells me that our staff is not flexible enough to adjust and scheme for talent. Which explains why we suck in the 3rd quarter--lack ability to adjust. Historically, Bronco is an awful 3rd quarter coach.



Third, if I am Tanner Mangum, I am wondering why I commit to an option team, and thinking I transfer post mission. Which is what Heaps did for similar reasons. Our offense scheme is awful and our OC is not committed to developing drop back passers.



Fact is, the path that Bronco and Doman are taking our offense is killing us and hte BYU brand. And it will continue to get our QBs injured. We are too finesse at the line of scrimmage, and too cutesy behind it. I love watching our aggressive and physical D play and hate wachcing our gimmicky and absolutely inconsistent O play.

I agree with all of this. I said this in another thread, but it feels like Doman feels the pressure and is going with what he knows best--option football. The problem is, unless BYU completely switches to the triple option scheme of Air Force and Navy, BYU will have the personnel to effectively run the read option scheme that's currently en vogue. It would take a backfield of Taysom Hill, Ronnie Jenkins, Luke Staley, and James Dye year in and year out to effectively run that type of offense against fast defenses--as we know, guys like that don't grow on trees for BYU.



BYU's general recruiting patterns make me believe that BYU's best bet long term is to run an offense predicated on power (not misdirection) with a downhill, inside running game and a passing game based on West Coast Offense principles--i.e., timing routes, accurate QBs, and smart receivers with sure hands. I'd like to be wrong on this, but I don't think Doman has the knowledge or experience to develop QB's with this skill set let alone to create such an offensive scheme.



If I were a QB recruit with any NFL ambitions, BYU wouldn't be my choice. One reason BYU had a string of QBs in the NFL in the 70s and 80s was because BYU ran a pro-style passing offense and had coaches that could develop the necessary skills to succeed in such a system.

Double post... oops.

So who gets the credit for Max Hall and John Beck. I am pretty sure Doman had some thing to do with the coaching of these 2 QBS. Both played in the NFL. Also I think the whole stand in the pocket throw the ball 40 times a game is pretty much lost all across the country.

CDH wrote:
So who gets the credit for Max Hall and John Beck. I am pretty sure Doman had some thing to do with the coaching of these 2 QBS. Both played in the NFL. Also I think the whole stand in the pocket throw the ball 40 times a game is pretty much lost all across the country.

I disagree. USC does it. Stanford can do it, Oregon State doing it this year. Boise State wants to. OU does it. Wazzu wants to do it. TCU can do it. Kansas is doing it. A&M wants to do it. Bama is pro style. Spurrier likes to do it. Basically teams with QBs that have that skill set do it, and if not, they go spread. So question I have is does BYU want to go pro style and recruit for it, or go spread and recruit for that? I am unsure right now. As our O lacks a core indentity this year, hard to say.

CDH wrote:
So who gets the credit for Max Hall and John Beck. I am pretty sure Doman had some thing to do with the coaching of these 2 QBS. Both played in the NFL. Also I think the whole stand in the pocket throw the ball 40 times a game is pretty much lost all across the country.

Hard to say. As I said in the another thread (and at the risk of sounding revisionist) I really don't see much development from either Beck or Hall in terms of QB fundamentals under the tutoring from Doman. Did their releases get quicker or cleaner? Did their footwork improve?



Doman definitely did a great job motivating both of them, but I'm not sure how much either player's QB skills improved under Doman. Beck was a bit of a head case, so getting rah-rahs in his ear from Doman was a big help to his confidence, allowing him to perform at a higher level than he had under Crowton.



It's harder to say with Hall because he was a more polished QB to begin with, plus his confidence and BYU's stable scheme were a big advantage for him--I tend to think Hall would have played about the same with or without Doman as QB coach. While he did improve (most from sophomore to junior year) his improvement wasn't drastic.

Lawboy wrote:

So who gets the credit for Max Hall and John Beck. I am pretty sure Doman had some thing to do with the coaching of these 2 QBS. Both played in the NFL. Also I think the whole stand in the pocket throw the ball 40 times a game is pretty much lost all across the country.

I disagree. USC does it. Stanford can do it, Oregon State doing it this year. Boise State wants to. OU does it. Wazzu wants to do it. TCU can do it. Kansas is doing it. A&M wants to do it. Bama is pro style. Spurrier likes to do it. Basically teams with QBs that have that skill set do it, and if not, they go spread. So question I have is does BYU want to go pro style and recruit for it, or go spread and recruit for that? I am unsure right now. As our O lacks a core indentity this year, hard to say.

Michigan was pro style for a long time under Lloyd Carr, tried to switch to the spread but failed miserably under Rich Rodriguez because they couldn't recruit the right type of player. Under Carr-disciple Hoke, they're transitioning back to more pro style principles, though they can't waste the talent and skills of Denard Robinson while they have him. We'll see how Hoke's regime turns out.



Despite the fact that Michigan always seemed to have ball-control/game manager type QBs, those QBs always got shots on NFL rosters. Not many Heisman Trophy-candidate QBs at Michigan. Not all Michigan QBs succeeded of course, but so many of them got good opportunities to play at the next level. My theory is that it's because they looked like NFLs are willing to give efficient game manager QBs a shot.

Mingjai wrote:

So who gets the credit for Max Hall and John Beck. I am pretty sure Doman had some thing to do with the coaching of these 2 QBS. Both played in the NFL. Also I think the whole stand in the pocket throw the ball 40 times a game is pretty much lost all across the country.

Hard to say. As I said in the another thread (and at the risk of sounding revisionist) I really don't see much development from either Beck or Hall in terms of QB fundamentals under the tutoring from Doman. Did their releases get quicker or cleaner? Did their footwork improve?



Doman definitely did a great job motivating both of them, but I'm not sure how much either player's QB skills improved under Doman. Beck was a bit of a head case, so getting rah-rahs in his ear from Doman was a big help to his confidence, allowing him to perform at a higher level than he had under Crowton.



It's harder to say with Hall because he was a more polished QB to begin with, plus his confidence and BYU's stable scheme were a big advantage for him--I tend to think Hall would have played about the same with or without Doman as QB coach. While he did improve (most from sophomore to junior year) his improvement wasn't drastic.

Doman certainly didn't help with decision making ability. Hall made the same mistakes over and over and Riley certainly hasn't changed his tune any.



Hall was also throwing to arguably the best two receivers BYU has every had - Pitta and Collie. How much of that was Collie and Pitta improving vs. Hall improving.



Doman is probably a solid QB coach where all of his attention is dumped into that one area. As OC, he's spread way too thin.

I disagree. USC does it. Stanford can do it, Oregon State doing it this year. Boise State wants to. OU does it. Wazzu wants to do it. TCU can do it. Kansas is doing it. A&M wants to do it. Bama is pro style. Spurrier likes to do it. Basically teams with QBs that have that skill set do it, and if not, they go spread. So question I have is does BYU want to go pro style and recruit for it, or go spread and recruit for that? I am unsure right now. As our O lacks a core indentity this year, hard to say.

Ya there are some teams there that "want to" or "are trying to do it". All I am saying is when you think of offensive fire power outside of maybe USC and OU I don't really think of any of those teams you mentioned. I am not talking pro style offense, I was meaning 5 WR sets, drop back and wing the ball around like crazy. Mike Leach style.

Heaps did say Doman was the best QB coach in the country, so there is that.

snoscythe wrote:
Heaps did say Doman was the best QB coach in the country, so there is that.

Bronco echoed that. Now if Doman and Nelson will come out and say that, the four most unpopular people in all of recent BYU Foitball will all be in agreement.



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*Apologist alert!*



Or, could the real issue be that BYU's offense faced two strong and super-motivated defenses in hostile environments and the players simply couldn't execute the gameplan in these tough environments? Both of these games had big-time rivalry game feel. The crowd noise's effect on false starts and cadence in the Ewete game has already been discussed at length. Boise State had the largest crowd in its stadium's history. The crowd was a huge factor in both games. (and I'm not referring to the Ewetes storming the field a half dozen times before the game ended).



In the Ewete game, BYU was driving in the second half and on the 20-yard line, looking to score and take control of the game, then the snap-fu and all the sudden the momentum swings to the Ewetes and Nelson looks dejected. Downhill from there.



On the first interception in the Boise game, Apo was wide open going into the corner of the endzone. That looked like a terrific play call to me.... Hoffman was open on the pick-6 play. Nelson just couldn't put the ball where it needed to go.



When Hill got the call in the Boise game, all of the sudden, the offense was finally able to score. And that was despite the two short-hop throws by Hill and the horrible phantom call where the ref said Apo went out of bounds and then came back in. Each of those plays would have likely resulted in first downs. Had Hill been able to execute on those plays, BYU keeps the ball and continues to drive - probably gets 200 yards offense in the 4th quarter.