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My thoughts on the game

by hawkwing · 9/21/2012

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Guest
I wasn't able to get a reliable internet connection last night, so all I was able to do was send tweets with my phone (hopefully you could see them and saw my thoughts during the game).



But I want to expand a few here.



First the defense.



The defense played fantastic. Truly the best defensive game by BYU I've seen in my lifetime. As I said last night, if it was true that defense wins championships we'd be champions last night.



Even with that though there are two glaring problems on defense. 1st, Joe Sampson is reckless and costs our team field position with his incessant penalties and unacceptable targeting of the head. Not cool.



Secondly, Preston Hadley is either the slowest man alive or he is only playing at half speed. Every big play BSU had was at him.



The offense is absolutely terrible. Another poster posted a topic about the all time worst coaching decision of all time. I clicked on it thinking it was the decision to start Riley Nelson in the 2nd half. That was the worst decision I've ever seen. Riley Nelson had absolutely no business being on the field in the 2nd half. He looked absolutely terrible. Whether it was Lark or Hill, a change needed to be made before it was.



Riley Nelson should never play QB again for BYU.



I want our fat offensive line back. Maybe they were no better, but it sure took defensive linemen an extra second to get around their girth. Now we have slim, bad offensive linemen who are getting shoved around and completely owned on every single snap.



Weber must be fired.



Can we all agree that Brandon Doman is the worst offensive coordinator BYU's ever had? Even Crowton, after every defense in the league had figured him out, could move the ball better than this. I'm tempted to move Reynolds to play calling duties as Doman is definitely not getting it done.



Punt coverage is also strangely poor this year, with 1 big return given up every game. This is another place where it looked to me like Preston Hadley was only putting in half effort, but it seems like only Craig Bills and Sorensen are putting in a full effort on every punt.



Go Cougars!
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Guest
I forgot to mention that there are other serious problems with coaches and time management. We should not need to take a time out early in the half because we don't have the play called in or the guys ready. This has happened multiple times this year and it has now seriously hurt us when we had a chance at the end of both the Utah game and the Boise St. game. It sure would have been nice to have a few time outs there at the end.



Also, fans are always calling for more gutsy play calling and how statistically if you always go for it on 4th down and always try to go for 2 you'll do better. I think this game showed why most coaches don't (and shouldn't). This game wouldn't have even been close if Boise St. had had a kicker that could make a field goal and had even attempted more than one.
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Brayden Green
hawkwing wrote:
I forgot to mention that there are other serious problems with coaches and time management. We should not need to take a time out early in the half because we don't have the play called in or the guys ready. This has happened multiple times this year and it has now seriously hurt us when we had a chance at the end of both the Utah game and the Boise St. game. It sure would have been nice to have a few time outs there at the end.




This happens every single game. We give out timeouts like they were candy, and then find ourselves strangely without them when we need them.



I think it was the second play that Taysom came in, and I think we had just gotten a holding call, so it was 2 and 20 on our 5 yard line. The gameplay clock is ticking away, and instead of taking the delay of game yardage, we call a timeout.



We spent a timeout in trade for 2.5 yards! That is one of the dumbest coaching moves I have ever seen. We weren't going to get the first down anyways, so why are you concerned about those 2.5 yards?



Sometimes I really think that the coaching staff is clueless. And after 8 years of head coaching, that is despicable that he hasn't figured out this part of the game yet. I don't think that he ever will.



He is an average coach, who doesn't really plan on improving himself. And that's it. End of story.
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UliUli79
I have started to post my thoughts on several threads, but so many of the posters were just too negative to respond to. In my life I've learned that if somebody has decided the sun won't rise in the morning nothing will convince them otherwise... especially witnessing an early morning sunrise. I'll post some thoughts here because Hawkwing's thoughts are more of an honest observation then just shotgunning anger.



I agree on the defense 100%. I told my wife after that goal line stand that win or lose this was the greatest defensive effort I've ever seen. Something to keep in mind with that is after BSU had that touchdown taken away because of the replay booth, Bronco rallied that defense and they came out a different unit. Credit the players for their toughness, but don't think for a minute that Bronco wasn't the catalyst there.



I feel bad about this, because I have bee rooting for both of them, but Doman and RN need to go. Doman has shown no growth after last season and RN is less then effective.



Now the caveat, we've had a poor track record the last 3 years with our QB situation. I worry that we're setting a bad precedence in that when our QB screws up, he gets benched. Do we risk creating an environment where QB's play with the constant fear of getting benched looming? I agree that we have to have more from the offense, but it's still something that needs to be considered.
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BroncoBot
BlueIsBetter wrote:
I forgot to mention that there are other serious problems with coaches and time management. We should not need to take a time out early in the half because we don't have the play called in or the guys ready. This has happened multiple times this year and it has now seriously hurt us when we had a chance at the end of both the Utah game and the Boise St. game. It sure would have been nice to have a few time outs there at the end.




This happens every single game. We give out timeouts like they were candy, and then find ourselves strangely without them when we need them.



I think it was the second play that Taysom came in, and I think we had just gotten a holding call, so it was 2 and 20 on our 5 yard line. The gameplay clock is ticking away, and instead of taking the delay of game yardage, we call a timeout.



We spent a timeout in trade for 2.5 yards! That is one of the dumbest coaching moves I have ever seen. We weren't going to get the first down anyways, so why are you concerned about those 2.5 yards?



Sometimes I really think that the coaching staff is clueless. And after 8 years of head coaching, that is despicable that he hasn't figured out this part of the game yet. I don't think that he ever will.



He is an average coach, who doesn't really plan on improving himself. And that's it. End of story.

Not every single game, but it happens way too much.
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pjmuli
hawkwing wrote:
The offense is absolutely terrible. Another poster posted a topic about the all time worst coaching decision of all time. I clicked on it thinking it was the decision to start Riley Nelson in the 2nd half. That was the worst decision I've ever seen. Riley Nelson had absolutely no business being on the field in the 2nd half. He looked absolutely terrible. Whether it was Lark or Hill, a change needed to be made before it was.



Riley Nelson should never play QB again for BYU.



Can we all agree that Brandon Doman is the worst offensive coordinator BYU's ever had? Even Crowton, after every defense in the league had figured him out, could move the ball better than this. I'm tempted to move Reynolds to play calling duties as Doman is definitely not getting it done.


I agree with most of this post. I really attribute the last two losses to the coaching staff's decision to play Nelson. They should have gone with Lark last week and stuck with a conservative game plan. Had they done that, I think BYU is 4-0 and ranked in the teens...with a couple of games to think about how to strategically prepare Hill to take reign in the next week or so.



Doman's offenses lack an identity and seem committed to put the quarterback at risk. I am not sure why we feel it is best to move away from the prototypical model of BYU success - strong play from a passing quarterback.



I know the shift is because of Nelson...it is just a comprehensive mistake.
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Gunk
Defense was absolutely amazing and they were fun to watch. That goal line stop was one of the coolest things I've seen BYU do in a long time.



What made it even cooler was seeing Bronco getting in the face of his guys, rallying them and then seeing him jumping up and down like a kid at Christmas. Epic. I want to see Bronco jump around more.



Offense, clearly has major issues. No where to go but up, right?



Five turnovers! Five! Only reason we were in that game was because of our defense. Our defense will carry us the rest of the season and probably next season too. Balance is needed.



On a bright side, I thought our kicking was bad, but after seeing BSU's kicking I realize it could be worse. How'd you like to be BSU's kicker where you're so bad the coach won't even play you and would rather go for it on 4th and 7.



Play calling was atrocious. I don't get Doman's love-affair with the option. That play should be ran no more than 3 times in a game. Thankfully he didn't run it as much as he did against Utah. Alisa was a bright spot, but he was used too much. BSU keyed in on Alisa and Alisa became almost completely ineffective the 2nd half. But rather than use that to an advantage by faking the hand off to Alisa and throwing to the flats or off a slant, Doman opted to keep putting it in Alisa's hands.



I get the sense Doman's strategy is, "Oh, I'll do the same thing again because the other team will be expecting me to do something different. Tee heee. That will get 'em." That only works, though, if you do something different 80% of the other times.
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frdbtr
The defense keyed on our run game because they new that with Nelson we couldn't throw and with Hill we were hesitant to throw. People need to calm down on Doman, it is funny how when we have an ineffective QB the Ocoordinator looks completely incompetent and when we have an effective healthy QB, the offense looks better and the ocoordinator looks good? Remember the O's turn around last year when Nelson came in and played healthy for a few games. Last night I saw a lot of open recievers get missed because of Bad Qbing. Nelson is just not healthy and it is time to go in a different direction. This doesn't reflect bad on him other then the fact that he refuses to sit himself even though his body has betrayed him again. If there is an indictment on our coaching it is that they refuse to sit a guy that everyone on the planet can see is completely ineffective because he is hurt because he "looks the coaches in the eyes and tells them that he is ready".
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mizzoucoug
Gunk wrote:
Defense was absolutely amazing and they were fun to watch. That goal line stop was one of the coolest things I've seen BYU do in a long time.



What made it even cooler was seeing Bronco getting in the face of his guys, rallying them and then seeing him jumping up and down like a kid at Christmas. Epic. I want to see Bronco jump around more (with the offensive unit). (For heaven's sake is he the head coach or the DC? I'm not sure any of us know anymore.)



Offense, clearly has major issues. No where to go but up, right?



Five turnovers! Five! Only reason we were in that game was because of our defense. Our defense will carry us the rest of the season and probably next season too. Balance is needed.



On a bright side, I thought our kicking was bad, but after seeing BSU's kicking I realize it could be worse. How'd you like to be BSU's kicker where you're so bad the coach won't even play you and would rather go for it on 4th and 7.



Play calling was atrocious. I don't get Doman's love-affair with the option. That play should be ran no more than 3 times in a game. Thankfully he didn't run it as much as he did against Utah. Alisa was a bright spot, but he was used too much. BSU keyed in on Alisa and Alisa became almost completely ineffective the 2nd half. But rather than use that to an advantage by faking the hand off to Alisa and throwing to the flats or off a slant, Doman opted to keep putting it in Alisa's hands.



I get the sense Doman's strategy is, "Oh, I'll do the same thing again because the other team will be expecting me to do something different. Tee heee. That will get 'em." That only works, though, if you do something different 80% of the other times.
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Gunk
frdbtr wrote:
The defense keyed on our run game because they new that with Nelson we couldn't throw and with Hill we were hesitant to throw. People need to calm down on Doman, it is funny how when we have an ineffective QB the Ocoordinator looks completely incompetent and when we have an effective healthy QB, the offense looks better and the ocoordinator looks good? Remember the O's turn around last year when Nelson came in and played healthy for a few games. Last night I saw a lot of open recievers get missed because of Bad Qbing. Nelson is just not healthy and it is time to go in a different direction. This doesn't reflect bad on him other then the fact that he refuses to sit himself even though his body has betrayed him again. If there is an indictment on our coaching it is that they refuse to sit a guy that everyone on the planet can see is completely ineffective because he is hurt because he "looks the coaches in the eyes and tells them that he is ready".


Don't buy it.



How many missed opportunities in the Blue Zone did we have against WSU. That was poor play calling not the result of a poor QB. Riley was fully healthy. We should have beaten WSU by 2 -3 more TDs.



Running the option 10 times for 12 yards against Utah is poor play calling regardless of whether your QB is hurt or not. Has to be more than two running plays in the play book other than option or up the middle.



Giving Alisa the ball 4 times in a row is dumb and allowed BSU to key in on us even further. Oh, Alisa is in and the QB is in at shotgun, it's going to Alisa. Follow Alisa.



Your QB sucks, fine you go with something else. You scheme. You mix up what you have, not just throw out half the playbook.



And, to your point, playing a hurt Riley over Lark or Hill was a poor decision. Not only did Doman knowingly put an ineffective QB in, he didn't come up with something new/innovative to counter the limitations. Doman also made the same mistake he made last season: going with an inept QB too long.



Doman should be done at the end of the season. Our WRs are wasting away.
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Guest
Doman is beyond poor. He's terrible.
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Lawboy
I think Doman has been limited by 2 big issues : poor Oline play and poor QB play. Obviously, he has an impact in coaching both up, and did not. But I want to see what he can do with a QB with an arm that can actually make the throws. RIley has no arm, and Heaps did not make the throws.



In watching the game last night, BSU stuck 9 guys in teh box all night. Nearly impossible to run on that due to numbers. THey also played 10 guys within 10 yards of hte LOS all game because eventhough we have legit WR, they did not respect Riley's ability to deliver. ANd with good reason.



THey did hte same to Hill until he actually threw some outs. Then--magically, they backed their corners off. Crazy. IT allowed Hoff to get open easier on the big 4th down slant, and got Apo open on 3 outs.



Fact is, a QB that can make throws forces a D to play honest. Riley did not do that, and it killed both our running game due to them stacking the box, and our short pass game for hte same reason. Once we get a QB who can prove he makes throws, it opens up both he running and passing lanes.



I am ready to commit to 2013. If hte team does that now, I support them. IF they stick with a limited QB for 2012, it turns me off.
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ABYUFAN
Lawboy wrote:
I think Doman has been limited by 2 big issues : poor Oline play and poor QB play. Obviously, he has an impact in coaching both up, and did not. But I want to see what he can do with a QB with an arm that can actually make the throws. RIley has no arm, and Heaps did not make the throws.



In watching the game last night, BSU stuck 9 guys in teh box all night. Nearly impossible to run on that due to numbers. THey also played 10 guys within 10 yards of hte LOS all game because eventhough we have legit WR, they did not respect Riley's ability to deliver. ANd with good reason.



THey did hte same to Hill until he actually threw some outs. Then--magically, they backed their corners off. Crazy. IT allowed Hoff to get open easier on the big 4th down slant, and got Apo open on 3 outs.



Fact is, a QB that can make throws forces a D to play honest. Riley did not do that, and it killed both our running game due to them stacking the box, and our short pass game for hte same reason. Once we get a QB who can prove he makes throws, it opens up both he running and passing lanes.



I am ready to commit to 2013. If hte team does that now, I support them. IF they stick with a limited QB for 2012, it turns me off.

FWIW I agree with everythng that you posted here.



Me myself am not yet willing to completely throw Doman under the bus. The 2 point conversion call last night was good and the play called was open. But our O Line blew it. Doman has called the plays to beat Utah and BSU but our O Line blew it both times. Can't fault him for that, get a new o line coach.
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RobertMRogers
Before we decide to "blow up" the whole program, I really think our issues come down to one thing: the o-line. When Riley has time, protection he is a decent quarterback (not great, but decent). It is when he is pressured that he makes rushed/rash decisions. It is blocking failures that lead to injuries to Riley. If the o-line plays the way they should, then we are not having the same discussion. I think the fix is there. With the o-line. Not with firing the entire coaching staff. We have talent on offense. They just have no opportunity to be showcased because of the horrible o-line play. The guard even remotely touches his blocking assignment on the 2-point conversion and we probably are having a different discussion today. The o-line is a mess and that is where the fix can be found.
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stuckinbig10country
Don't forget, Weber was close to being gone when Anae was let go (along with Reynolds), but they kept him to ensure that Ryker Matthews came. The failure of this coaching staff is that they continually make decisions for short term gains while sacrificing the future (better OL coach lost for Matthew's staying committed; maximum 2 wins last year instead of having a more talented junior QB this year and senior next year).



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Gunk
ABYUFAN wrote:

Doman has called the plays to beat Utah and BSU but our O Line blew it both times. Can't fault him for that, get a new o line coach.


You call running the option 10 times for 12 yards calling the right plays to beat Utah? I don't buy it at all. Doman's play calling it atrocious. I'd take Anae over Doman any day.
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CrimsonCoug
stuckinbig10country wrote:
Don't forget, Weber was close to being gone when Anae was let go (along with Reynolds), but they kept him to ensure that Ryker Matthews came. The failure of this coaching staff is that they continually make decisions for short term gains while sacrificing the future (better OL coach lost for Matthew's staying committed; maximum 2 wins last year instead of having a more talented junior QB this year and senior next year).



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


I'm not fluent in Bronco-speak, but if I read him right, Weber is on the hotseat.

In the post-game coaches show with Greg and Mark last night Bronco said something like 'I need to be much more clear with the offense and offensive coaches exactly what the expectations are. And then I need to ask more of them. I've always said that one of the biggest mistakes you can make with people is not asking enough of them. We have good kids, good players, and they'll do exactly what you ask them to do. So we just need to be more clear about what we're asking them to do.'

Given how veiled and mild-mannered Bronco usually is, I see this as his public face for saying, "I get it. We sucked. I was there. Something needs to change. The fault doesn't lie with the players it lies with the coaches. I'll be laying down some ulitmatums tomorrow."

Wouldn't want to be on the O-side during staff meeting this afternoon.
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tjerbear
Great post and I agree. As boneheaded as the play calling was lets be real Bronco is young and is a leader and Doman has not had a quarterback to work with. The offensive line is weak and the game was lost on the chop block away from the play which cost us a touchdown.
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ABYUFAN
Gunk wrote:

Doman has called the plays to beat Utah and BSU but our O Line blew it both times. Can't fault him for that, get a new o line coach.


You call running the option 10 times for 12 yards calling the right plays to beat Utah? I don't buy it at all. Doman's play calling it atrocious. I'd take Anae over Doman any day.

I was referring to the last real offensive play in the Utah game, going with a double move for the touchdown. I'm not footbal guy, but I don't have a problem with using a play a number of times to set up a gamebreaking play. Two games in a row Doman called the right play to win the game. How many times did we complain that Anae called stupid plays at the end of the game?
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golong
I had to listen to the game on Thursday, but watched the replay on ESPN at 12:30 a.m. this morning. My visual perception is a bit different from my audio perception. Here's what I saw:



1. Nelson wasn't healthy...and he had no time to throw. There's a reason defenses try to hurry the QB, it forces them to do things before they're ready, it leads to mistakes--yes it does!

2. I don't know that the play calling was all that bad, because nothing worked. Still, are you telling me a BYU team cannot get a TE open for a 8 yd pass? or that Hoffman is not open? or that a high pass to him doesn't always beat the corner? I've played football and watched football (and BYU) for years. If the defense blitzes, some receiver is open...and we can't find that guy? If they put 8 in the box, the quick pass is always there--where was it last night?

3. Brock Stringham cost us the 2 pt conversion. Hill was rolling right on that play, and Stringham plays his man straight up, he doesn't even have to fight off Stringham, he just slants directly at Hill without even slowing down and forces him to throw before he wants to. If Stringham even half way blocks, or slows down his man, I think Hill either throws or runs for the 2 pt conversion, BYU wins the game. Just dumb Oline play on Stringham's part.

4. On Nelson's pick 6, he had a Boise defender right in his face, it's doubtful he could see anything. I'm not at all sure the fault is all Nelson's. If the QB has no time, no QB looks very good. Doman probably did the only think he could, quit throwing the football, except to keep Boise honest. We have two freshmen and one sophomore on the Oline. If they don't grow up in a hurry, it's possible we don't go to a bowl game. I don't think they are bad players, but they don't yet play smart, or physical, and if they don't, it will be a long season. Surely Mathews knows better than to chop block, why on earth did he do it? it was not necessary, the play went to the right, not to his side anyway. If I'm the Oline coach, I don't start either Mathews or Stringham on Friday, they get in the game later, but they cost us a TD and a 2 pt conversion, and thus the game, they need to be held accountable.

5. If Stringham gets in the way of his man and even slows him down, and Hill has time to do his thing, BYU makes the 2 pt conversion and Bronco looks like a genius. I fault Stringham more than Bronco on the call. You always look bad when what the coach calls, fails. What I fault Bronco for is not at least trying an onside kick after the TD. Why wouldn't you do that? and on Boise's pass play to get the first down, why don't you have Johnson in press coverage, and force the QB to throw it long? for all the great defense in this game, surely Bronco could see the criticalness of stopping Boise; otherwise, the game is over, which it was.

6. And let's not forget that Kavienga had a pass land right in his lap, a certain interception--and he dropped it. This could have been a game changer too, but not many passes land in the lap of a defensive player, so you better not screw it up--he has to make that interception. So there were failure all around, and it showed.

7. Hopefully, Doman learned his lesson, you don't play a half speed, beat up, injured QB--regardless of how much you love the guy. Doman's dullness on this issue gave Boise their only TD. Nelson should not have been in the game after halftime. What was he thinking, everybody watching the game knew Nelson should sit; waiting until he gives the game away is inexcusable. Doman should return his paycheck for this game.



Having said all this, BYU must develop a passing game if they are to be an effective offense. Sit Nelson for the Hawaii game, let him heal, and have Hill come out firing the football and use this game to reinstate the BYU passing game. We know Hill can run, we know he can run the option, we don't need to practice that this week; it's the passing game that needs attention--and fast. Hill can throw, use the Hawaii game to develop this part of his game. And if Hill gets sacked, that lineman who got beat, comes out. Block somebody for crying out loud, at least slow them down, which they didn't do in Boise.
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