I have an honest question.

I am not playing games. I'm asking an honest question here, and want an honest debate.



How would you feel as a defensive player if Bronco just announced to the team that he still wants Riley to be the starter, after putting the ball up for grabs about a dozen times over the last 2 weeks, and the :sick: play of the offense?

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I am not playing games. I'm asking an honest question here, and want an honest debate.



How would you feel as a defensive player if Bronco just announced to the team that he still wants Riley to be the starter, after putting the ball up for grabs about a dozen times over the last 2 weeks, and the :sick: play of the offense?

Have no idea. Haven't been in the locker room and don't know the team chemistry. Probably lots of guys on defense ready to support nelson as their team leader and would do everything, including stomach another RN start, for him. At least, that's how I hope the team is.

The guys like Riley. If I am on the defense, you want him to succeed and if he's given the ball you do your best to put him in a position to win.



That said, if he lays another goose you start feeling bad for him and hope that he pulls himself out. I don't think they get mad or rebellious. There's a lot of respect for Riley.



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Honest answer: I'd walk up to Bronco and say he's not doing the team and fans a favor by starting Riley. His @$$ needs to go! If he starts Riley, then in the words of Falslev, "F...!"

birdie702 wrote:
Honest answer: I'd walk up to Bronco and say he's not doing the team and fans a favor by starting Riley. His @$$ needs to go! If he starts Riley, then in the words of Falslev, "F...!"

If you lose a game because of 1 player you have to bench him. If Rudy were playing Dback and got burned over the top five times do you think Bronco wouldn't bench him? If a Running back coughed up the ball four times don't you think Bronco would step in if Doman tried to keep playing him?



Obviously the QB position is different, but not so different that you can't/shouldn't be benched if you are giving games away.

I'd transfer.

BroncoBot wrote:

Have no idea. Haven't been in the locker room and don't know the team chemistry. Probably lots of guys on defense ready to support nelson as their team leader and would do everything, including stomach another RN start, for him. At least, that's how I hope the team is.

Why would you hope that our team is a bunch of masochists, that want failure?



RIley wasn't a good qb when he wasn't hurt, and now you are supposed to support him with no throwing arm and no legs? The defense is playing the best games of their careers, and losing. NFL scouts are passing them by because they aren't winning games, and they want defensive players from "winning teams."



It is insanity to want Riley Nelson to start. If I were a defensive player I'd stick up for myself. But maybe that would get you kicked out of "the band of brothers" ...

I think you're over dramatizing this a bit. Reilly is highly respected, and because he stunk it up last night, doesn't mean the team still doesn't respect him. The smart move, if I'm Bronco, is I announce that Reilly will sit at least one game to heal up, that Hill will start against Hawaii, and after that, the QB who gives us the best chance of winning games will start. I think, because Hill has such a much greater upside, Nelson may never start again, but he will probably play again, and be glad for any playing time he gets. He'll play special teams if Bronco wants him to!



And BYU is not a farm team for the NFL. I could not care less if BYU sends anybody to the NFL, that is not why players were recruited, that is not why they came to BYU, and that is not why I love BYU. Play the game, love the game, do your best, enjoy your college playing days. Honestly, I would hope more BYU players would take the Eli Herring route.

Probably almost as bad as they felt when Jake Heaps came out against UCF and USU last season after stinking it up for three straight games.

golong wrote:
I think you're over dramatizing this a bit. Reilly is highly respected, and because he stunk it up last night, doesn't mean the team still doesn't respect him. The smart move, if I'm Bronco, is I announce that Reilly will sit at least one game to heal up, that Hill will start against Hawaii, and after that, the QB who gives us the best chance of winning games will start. I think, because Hill has such a much greater upside, Nelson may never start again, but he will probably play again, and be glad for any playing time he gets. He'll play special teams if Bronco wants him to!



And BYU is not a farm team for the NFL. I could not care less if BYU sends anybody to the NFL, that is not why players were recruited, that is not why they came to BYU, and that is not why I love BYU. Play the game, love the game, do your best, enjoy your college playing days. Honestly, I would hope more BYU players would take the Eli Herring route.

And the NFL talent rarely stays when we do get them. You're wrong in your assumption that players don't come to BYU to get to the NFL. It may not be the only reason, but many players on all teams want to play at the next level.

The ones that stay and play for BYU love, eat and drink Y football and will follow Bronco through heck and high water. While they may not be NFL talent laden like AL, LSU, USC, we don't have the academic, off-field issues of others and that is critical as they are representing not just the University but the church. We will have several NFL bound players this year and more to come - just need time to get the program running on all cylinders.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
I am not playing games. I'm asking an honest question here, and want an honest debate.



How would you feel as a defensive player if Bronco just announced to the team that he still wants Riley to be the starter, after putting the ball up for grabs about a dozen times over the last 2 weeks, and the :sick: play of the offense?

I would hope that he means - when healthy enough to play - like 2011 - same thing. You are so insensitive and blinded by your man crush - that you do not realize that they genuinely like and trust Riley - they sure went to war for him the last two weeks and continued to battle for his replacement.



Team. Someday you may get it. Nah.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
Probably almost as bad as they felt when Jake Heaps came out against UCF and USU last season after stinking it up for three straight games.

This would be the answer if the OP was really an honest question. It was not.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:

Have no idea. Haven't been in the locker room and don't know the team chemistry. Probably lots of guys on defense ready to support nelson as their team leader and would do everything, including stomach another RN start, for him. At least, that's how I hope the team is.

Why would you hope that our team is a bunch of masochists, that want failure?



RIley wasn't a good qb when he wasn't hurt, and now you are supposed to support him with no throwing arm and no legs? The defense is playing the best games of their careers, and losing. NFL scouts are passing them by because they aren't winning games, and they want defensive players from "winning teams."



It is insanity to want Riley Nelson to start. If I were a defensive player I'd stick up for myself. But maybe that would get you kicked out of "the band of brothers" ...

Let me SIMPLY SIMPLIFY this for you - USU put some players in the NFL last year even though we beat them and they lost more games than BYU lost, and were not ranked.



Utah put some players in the NFL last year even though they lost more games than BYU lost and were not ranked and even lost to Colorado - Not on the road @ Utah by 3 and @BSU by 1 on two missed kicks.



Even simpler - if BYU had not been without offense - the BYU defense would not have gotten the dramatic exposure they got on ESPN last night that I am sure was seen by some NFL Scouts.



And Team - The defense was already challenging itself to do better to help their struggling offense. They noted, as The Bibster pointed out after the U game:



They are good. Very good most of the time. Amazing at times.



They also fail to create turnovers and in both losses failed to make a critical stop, gave up a big play, and failed to create a turnover. A Team - will focus on getting better and shoring each other up. You played. Maybe you did not play on a TEAM or were oblivious to it.



You would quit. Like the BYU defense vs Utah when Jake Heaps was the leader - they quit -



Even Simpler - then, when Jake lost his job - he did not cheer on his replacement - not at all - he pouted - quit before the bowl game where he might have been needed - to best serve his options.



He Quit. Get over it. Only Quitters love Quitters and encourage others to quit. Luckily for BYU and it's fans - none of our defensive players are that SMALL. None are quitters. The Quitters - have already quit.



And if Jake Heaps had not quit, and had practiced hard this summer - he probably would have gotten a shot Vs U and if he played well - started at BSU. And his team-mates would have supported him if he has learned a little TEAM first and a little GRIT.



Simple Enough?



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I liked you better when you just said "THIS" for 100 posts in a row. Seriously man, what the hell is your problem?



I wonder why you are being so aggressive towards everybody? Why all the anger?



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Eh, perhaps your comments are triggering reactions? Review prior big boy pants video to understand the context of the comments. Don't be a dead dog kicker.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
I liked you better when you just said "THIS" for 100 posts in a row. Seriously man, what the hell is your problem?



I wonder why you are being so aggressive towards everybody? Why all the anger?



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The reason people are going after you is you are making statements that don't make any sense. You posted somewhere that the NFL doesn't take players off of losing teams. Ever hear of Jay cutler? Went 11-35 as a starter at Vanderbilt and yet was a 1st round draft pic in the NFL. (11th overall pic) The NFL likes athletes, if you are good they find you.

To Spiffcoug & Cougarbib above --- "almost as bad"????? --- "after (Jake Heaps) stinking it up for 3 straight games"?????



Jake's PER was over 100 for those three games. Riley's was -4!!!!! in the last game. I guess when you have a mancrush to the point of insanity -4 is "almost as bad as 104. Jake averaged 241 yards passing in those 3 games where he "stunk it up". How many yards has Riley averaged per game this year?



Which of the two quarterbacks in question was a true Soph who had an unbalievably abysmal frosh Offensive coord. to work with? Which was a 5th year senior? (true, the off. coord. is still the same inept man, but at least he now has 18 games of experience instead of 3.)



Which quarterback in question played a Utah game where his center was hiking the ball 6 feet over his head, and the O line wasn't even slowing down the defensive rush, and his fellow ball handlers were handing the ball to Utah every other play? Which one on the other hand, was the one who was handing the ball to Utah (or trying to) every other play?



"almost as bad"??????? Ha!!!!!!!



It was because of this insane man crush that I have stayed away from this site for about a year. Good bye again for probably more than a year this time.



By the way, I don't think anyone who has a mancrush on Riley has done this, or will. But go back and take a look (if you have them on DVD as I do) at the Texas and Utah games from last year. Jake did not lose those games. His play in the Utah game (over 200 yards in the first half - amazing against a Utah D - while his teamates were trying to throw the game made that even more unbeivable).



No, I did not have a mancrush on Jake. I just thought the fans were garbage for the way they treated him, and still are judging by this putrid site. Any sane man would have transferred who was being treated that way.

Alphaleonis wrote:
To Spiffcoug & Cougarbib above --- "almost as bad"????? --- "after (Jake Heaps) stinking it up for 3 straight games"?????



Jake's PER was over 100 for those three games. Riley's was -4!!!!! in the last game. I guess when you have a mancrush to the point of insanity -4 is "almost as bad as 104. Jake averaged 241 yards passing in those 3 games where he "stunk it up". How many yards has Riley averaged per game this year?

This is false. Jake's PER in his last three games before getting benched were:

107.84 vs Utah, 74.04 vs UCF and 79.95 vs Utah St. You are also comparing Riley's last game - where he was atrocious (and worse than Jake ever was) - to Jake's last three.

Alphaleonis wrote:
Which of the two quarterbacks in question was a true Soph who had an unbalievably abysmal frosh Offensive coord. to work with? Which was a 5th year senior? (true, the off. coord. is still the same inept man, but at least he now has 18 games of experience instead of 3.)

I've said multiple times there are no excuses. Players are responsible for their on the field production. I didn't give Heaps any excuses. I haven't given Riley any excuses.

Alphaleonis wrote:
Which quarterback in question played a Utah game where his center was hiking the ball 6 feet over his head, and the O line wasn't even slowing down the defensive rush, and his fellow ball handlers were handing the ball to Utah every other play? Which one on the other hand, was the one who was handing the ball to Utah (or trying to) every other play?

Seems like both QBs had issues with snaps from the center. Seems like both QBs had OLs struggling to slow down the rush. Seems like both QBs had turnover fiestas for the Utes.

Alphaleonis wrote:
"almost as bad"??????? Ha!!!!!!!



It was because of this insane man crush that I have stayed away from this site for about a year. Good bye again for probably more than a year this time.



By the way, I don't think anyone who has a mancrush on Riley has done this, or will. But go back and take a look (if you have them on DVD as I do) at the Texas and Utah games from last year. Jake did not lose those games. His play in the Utah game (over 200 yards in the first half - amazing against a Utah D - while his teamates were trying to throw the game made that even more unbeivable).

Has anyone been defending Riley? I mean seriously, there has been no where near the defense, excuse-making there was for Jake last year. I don't cherry pick drives from games. Look at the whole game, Jake stunk in multiple games and got benched for it. Riley stunk in multiple games and got benched for it. Neither player (Jake in early 2011 or Riley in early 2012) deserved to continue being the starting QB for this program. Both played their way to the bench.



I've been very consistent on this front. I have my standards (135 PER, etc) and I have called BOTH QBs out for failing to consistently meet that standard.



I hope you don't stay away from the board for a year. We've had some great discussions on this site in that time. And perhaps if you hadn't been away for a year, you'd have seen that I have been critical of Riley.



My only mancrush is on the BYU football program. I want it to succeed and it can really only do that when the QB is productive and meeting the standards set. When they don't, I call them on it.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I liked you better when you just said "THIS" for 100 posts in a row. Seriously man, what the hell is your problem?



I wonder why you are being so aggressive towards everybody? Why all the anger?



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This.



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