Thread for the non-suicidal/homicidal (AKA Apologists)

There are a million threads about how awful the team is, or how stupid Bronco is, or how nothing looks worse than blue turf on TV, but this thread is for those fans who still hold out hope.



I still believe.



I will grant you that Nelson has looked bad since the end of the Washington State game. But he is out now, probably for good, or at least until he looks healthy again. As Greg Wrubel said, "The Future is now" with Taysom Hill. And while he missed some throws, he has confidence, size and speed. Considering he took over the reigns in one of the toughest road environments in the country, starting on his 1 yard line, Taysom did pretty well. I am stoked for his future.



While Bronco's call to go for two didn't work out, I actually really liked it. You play to win the game and on the road with a freshman QB and with momentum, he went for the win. If we get that (which we nearly did) then I think we win the game. It didn't work, but fortune favors the bold.



Besides, Petersen is one of the best coaches in the country, and what about his calls to fake punt from his own 25, and all the 4th down attempts in field goal range? IF Boise State kicks and makes one FG then going for two never happens and BYU loses anyway. Bold call by both coaches. I like bold.



Doman worries me because our offense has cost us the last two games. But then again it is pretty obvious that Nelson hasn't been able to throw more than 15 yards without a running start. Tough to call plays with an injured and ineffective QB. I will give him another game or two before completely passing judgment.



And you know what else? 2006 and 2007 started off 1-2 against lesser competition. BYU has lost two really close games on the road against quality opponents and with a gimpy QB. With our defense I actually like our odds at running the table from here and finishing 10-2 with a freshman QB and a top 10 defense.



I believe.

Amen, and amen. I'm down and out tonight, but still will cheer for BYU any night they are playing. I don't care who's QB, coach, or RB. Just give me more BYU football. December is already coming at us too fast and then we'll have boring threads to read for 7-8 months.

Looks like you spoke too soon. Riley starts next week.

Isola I believe too. I think I might need help with my belief for the ND game

Calling for Bronco to be fired is stupid. He's responsible for what our D is. Of course, that's not saying there's not plenty of things to criticize him on.



I'm still willing to give Doman more time but need to see more improvement. It's not happening fast enough.



Weber needs to go.



There really is no reason to start Nelson at this point. Other than blind, pig-headed loyalty.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Looks like you spoke too soon. Riley starts next week.

I'll worry about who starts next week when it is next week. That game is 9 days away and if Riley is healthy then I am not all that concerned.



One more glimmer of hope I see. We just played one of the toughest home teams ever, turned the ball over 5 times, once for a score and once on our 1 yard line and yet we were a RG block away from a one point win.

KingCoug wrote:
Calling for Bronco to be fired is stupid. He's responsible for what our D is. There really is no reason to start Nelson at this point. Other than blind, pig-headed loyalty.

I am hoping that either Nelson is back looking like himself by next saturday or that Bronco holds him out for injury.

KingCoug wrote:
I'm still willing to give Doman more time but need to see more improvement. It's not happening fast enough.



Weber needs to go.

I am not thrilled with Doman, but my biggest hesitation there is who would we replace him with? I was eager to see Anae go and we got Doman. So we dump Doman and who do we replace him with? Max Hall? No thanks. I am hoping the offensive woes are due to an injured Riley.

Honestly, what needs to happen is Bronco needs to switch sides of the ball.



Many of us have been clamoring for years for Bronco to become more involved with the offensive side of the ball.



His offense is desperate for leadership. Not player leadership. COACHING leadership. They need an identity. And Bronco can certianly provide that.

Isola wrote:

I'm still willing to give Doman more time but need to see more improvement. It's not happening fast enough.



Weber needs to go.

I am not thrilled with Doman, but my biggest hesitation there is who would we replace him with? I was eager to see Anae go and we got Doman. So we dump Doman and who do we replace him with? Max Hall? No thanks. I am hoping the offensive woes are due to an injured Riley.

Max Hall?/?? Didn't he basically run the offense his 3 years as starter? You might be onto something. lol.

It is the Ocoordinators call who starts at QB. I am not going to start griping about who starts until I see Riley nelson struggling on the field again.

Bronco starts Riley next week and I start to question his handling of his o. And his head coach instincts. Clueless about offnse

Lawboy wrote:
Bronco starts Riley next week and I start to question his handling of his o. And his head coach instincts. Clueless about offnse

This is the problem. He doesn't handle the O. He needs to. Leadership is leadership. The principles are the same across the board.



You could Coach K from Duke and he could be an excellent football coach, because he understands players and getting them to play certain ways. He may not know Xs and Os. But he knows players and leadership.



This is what Bronco needs to to.

Isola wrote:

Looks like you spoke too soon. Riley starts next week.

I'll worry about who starts next week when it is next week. That game is 9 days away and if Riley is healthy then I am not all that concerned.



One more glimmer of hope I see. We just played one of the toughest home teams ever, turned the ball over 5 times, once for a score and once on our 1 yard line and yet we were a RG block away from a one point win.

OMG, you apologists and your moral victories. You can't keep counting these up over 6 years and keep expecting it to eventually amount to something. At some point you have to actually beat someone. You fantasy is amusing it really is, but self-deception is harming your ability to reason.

mizzoucoug wrote:

OMG, you apologists and your moral victories. You can't keep counting these up over 6 years and keep expecting it to eventually amount to something. At some point you have to actually beat someone. You fantasy is amusing it really is, but self-deception is harming your ability to reason.

No offense but isn't there some dooms day thread out there waiting for you? If I wanted to hear it I would read those threads.



I haven't lost hope and I want to chat with a few others who haven't either.



I don't understand guys like you. You want to crap on me for not freaking out over two close road losses. So what do you expect? Perfection? Seriously? If that is all you will settle for then you better hop on your XBox. That doesn't happen. Bronco has led the team to truck loads of victories and I like our odds for double digit victories this year with close road losses. Yes I will take that. If that is an average Bronco year and our players are class acts then he can coach as long as he wants in my opinion.

Isola wrote:

OMG, you apologists and your moral victories. You can't keep counting these up over 6 years and keep expecting it to eventually amount to something. At some point you have to actually beat someone. You fantasy is amusing it really is, but self-deception is harming your ability to reason.

No offense but isn't there some dooms day thread out there waiting for you? If I wanted to hear it I would read those threads.



I haven't lost hope and I want to chat with a few others who haven't either.



I don't understand guys like you. You want to crap on me for not freaking out over two close road losses. So what do you expect? Perfection? Seriously? If that is all you will settle for then you better hop on your XBox. That doesn't happen. Bronco has led the team to truck loads of victories and I like our odds for double digit victories this year with close road losses. Yes I will take that. If that is an average Bronco year and our players are class acts then he can coach as long as he wants in my opinion.

Fair enough. You want moral victories and to be able to protect your ego by telling your friends BYU wins 10 games a year, and you know they won't usually ask which patsies they beat. A national title run is not on your list of goals for the program and that is the difference between fans like you and fans like me. And it does not take perfection to get to that point--a naive assertion.

mizzoucoug wrote:

Fair enough. You want moral victories and to be able to protect your ego by telling your friends BYU wins 10 games a year, and you know they won't usually ask which patsies they beat. A national title run is not on your list of goals for the program and that is the difference between fans like you and fans like me. And it does not take perfection to get to that point--a naive assertion.

I don't want moral victories over real victories, but I also prefer moral victories to blow out losses.



As for protecting my ego, I live in the Seattle Area. The nearest team that can brag over BYU is Boise State. Not only have we had better seasons beating patsies as you would say, but those patsies included both Oregon schools and three Washington schools (Eastern Washington). Bronco is a combined 6-0 against Washington and Oregon schools, including 2 road wins, 3 home wins and a bowl blow out. Any local fan can try their hand at demeaning BYU's record under Bronco, but it doesn't end well for them. Only Oregon has a better record and unlike you I don't begrudge having a worse record than a program that is funded by Nike, has a mile long rap sheet, and is under serious investigation by the NCAA for violations, probably just years away from probation. This BYU fan will not trade the squeaky clean Bronco team for the NC runner up thug team of Oregon.



Yeah, I want another National Championship, just like the fans of every other school. But in case you hadn't noticed those don't come easy to anyone. There are only a handful of teams that are actually in the running each year. Most have no shot, and others try to hang close and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. I feel like that is where BYU is. Under Bronco BYU averages ~9.5 wins per year. Only twice have they failed to get double digit wins. Even this year I think they will get to 10 wins, with two losses being nail biters. Did they catch lightning in a bottle, no. Too bad, but they are close.



This article is close to how I feel. Double digit wins is BYU's cruising altitude, not their ceiling. Under Bronco BYU has won 11 games 3 times, hardly the exception. I think we have seen the floor under Bronco, 7 wins. We have yet to catch lightning in a bottle to see our ceiling.



And besides, I like Riley, I like his heart. BUT DID YOU REALLY EXPECT TO WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP WITH HIM?! I may have hoped it, but I never expected it.

I'm a fan of this thread. I hate it when we lose and I want to win more games and more big games but it has to be kept in perspective that out of 130+ (I think) D-1 schools typically only 1, sometimes 0, sometimes 2, rarely 3 will go undefeated each year. The difference between our season so far in 2012 and Utah's season in 2008 is that the lucky break went against us, not for us. It takes great coaches, great players, and a lot of good fortune to go undefeated. You have to be good and really lucky usually.



Calling for the coaches heads after losing a game in a place that only 4% of teams have won in the last 12 years is stretch. I haven't seen one suggestion of who we should hire, just who we should fire.



Under Bronco BYU has been as good as BYU has been in 25 years. We're not Alabama and we can't be Alabama. I'll continue to appreciate the 10-11 win season's and believe that every 4th or 5th year we see something truly incredible.



Now with that said, Bronco go fix the O-line by whatever means necessary and make sure Riley is able to play if you're going to start him again. I have a tough time calling for Doman’s head seeing what he's had to work with his line the last 2 years and his locker room last year. (Although I do feel the coaches and last year's senior leadership need to take a lot of responsiblity for last years locker room issues)



If we beat ND and GT and win the bowl this could still be a great year and with our D it could still happen.

Isola wrote:

Fair enough. You want moral victories and to be able to protect your ego by telling your friends BYU wins 10 games a year, and you know they won't usually ask which patsies they beat. A national title run is not on your list of goals for the program and that is the difference between fans like you and fans like me. And it does not take perfection to get to that point--a naive assertion.

I don't want moral victories over real victories, but I also prefer moral victories to blow out losses.



As for protecting my ego, I live in the Seattle Area. The nearest team that can brag over BYU is Boise State. Not only have we had better seasons beating patsies as you would say, but those patsies included both Oregon schools and three Washington schools (Eastern Washington). Bronco is a combined 6-0 against Washington and Oregon schools, including 2 road wins, 3 home wins and a bowl blow out. Any local fan can try their hand at demeaning BYU's record under Bronco, but it doesn't end well for them. Only Oregon has a better record and unlike you I don't begrudge having a worse record than a program that is funded by Nike, has a mile long rap sheet, and is under serious investigation by the NCAA for violations, probably just years away from probation. This BYU fan will not trade the squeaky clean Bronco team for the NC runner up thug team of Oregon.



Yeah, I want another National Championship, just like the fans of every other school. But in case you hadn't noticed those don't come easy to anyone. There are only a handful of teams that are actually in the running each year. Most have no shot, and others try to hang close and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. I feel like that is where BYU is. Under Bronco BYU averages ~9.5 wins per year. Only twice have they failed to get double digit wins. Even this year I think they will get to 10 wins, with two losses being nail biters. Did they catch lightning in a bottle, no. Too bad, but they are close.



This article is close to how I feel. Double digit wins is BYU's cruising altitude, not their ceiling. Under Bronco BYU has won 11 games 3 times, hardly the exception. I think we have seen the floor under Bronco, 7 wins. We have yet to catch lightning in a bottle to see our ceiling.



And besides, I like Riley, I like his heart. BUT DID YOU REALLY EXPECT TO WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP WITH HIM?! I may have hoped it, but I never expected it.

+1,000

I don't know about you guys, stirfry and BoiseBYU, but this thread is a breathe of fresh air. I am not satisfied as a BYU fan. I want more, but the sky is not falling and I don't want anyone's head.



But seriously, what is wrong with our O-line? The offense needs the fire of the defense. Then again I think first we need a healthy QB, and Riley is not healthy.