Riley Nelson

I like Riley Nelson.

At least, I liked the Riley Nelson we had last year. This year's Riley Nelson seems to lack something.



Was it really because last year we had such bad competition when Riley Nelson was playing?

Well, he didn't look that great in the Weber game. Not horrible, but nothing special. Maybe it's just my selective memory. I don't think so, but maybe.

So, I got to thinking, what did last year's Riley Nelson have that this year's doesn't seem to?

The answer I came up with is: Jake Heaps.

Last year, there was always the presumption that if Riley Nelson stopped competing, or wasn't available, Jake Heaps would take over.

Maybe Doman needs to sit Riley down and say, "we are considering starting Lark in the second half of the Boise game if you appear to be struggling in the first half" and see if Riley steps up. Maybe that is too Crowtonesque, but it might be what Riley needs.

Riley needs to play like he did against Washington St and not Utah. He wasn't good enough.



It's too early to start talking about benching Riley. If he struggles against Boise, then we need to start thinking about making a change. If he comes out and stinks against Hawaii, then I can justify a change at the half.



There is a standard to meet when you're a QB at BYU. It's a 135 PER. One game below the standard doesn't justify a benching. Two games well below the standard, might bring up the question.

I'm not saying we need to bench him. I'm saying, figure out how to give him someone to compete for the job against. Part of the problem may be that he feels he has the job locked up.

One thing everyone agrees about with respect to Riley Nelson, he is a competitor. He is at his best when he feels the pressure.

Against Utah, it seemed he didn't start to compete until the 4th quarter. Once he started to compete, he looked good. I'm saying figure out how to pull out that competiveness in the first quarter instead of in the 4th quarter.

Let me simplify your argument for you: you like a healthy RIley, not an unhealthy one.



When Riley is healthy, he plays well. See UW game in 2010, healthy games in 2011. When he is hurt, he struggles. See AFa, FSU games in 2010, Tulsa game in 2011, Utah game in 2012, and--wait for it--BSU game in 2012.



Yes, Riley is still hurting. Low back injury. Not going away anytime soon.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Riley needs to play like he did against Washington St and not Utah. He wasn't good enough.



It's too early to start talking about benching Riley. If he struggles against Boise, then we need to start thinking about making a change. If he comes out and stinks against Hawaii, then I can justify a change at the half.



There is a standard to meet when you're a QB at BYU. It's a 135 PER. One game below the standard doesn't justify a benching. Two games well below the standard, might bring up the question.

You forget that he is a senior and the leader of the team. 154 PER was it for senior starting qbs?



Whether it is physical or mental, Riley Nelson and the BYU offense is losing games that the defense should be winning them. Just like last year. Special teams needs to stup up too, though the main problem is the offense and the qb who leads them. The defense hasn't quit, yet. They will pretty soon though. As a defense, you can only turn the ball over to an offense that fumbles the ball 10 times in a game and throws INTs so many times before you get pissed and take your ball home to play.



The defense is getting it done, until they decide not to. If we struggle in the Boise and then the Hawaii game, look for a second half blowout against the Warriors just like last years' Utah game.

Lawboy wrote:
Let me simplify your argument for you: you like a healthy RIley, not an unhealthy one.



When Riley is healthy, he plays well. See UW game in 2010, healthy games in 2011. When he is hurt, he struggles. See AFa, FSU games in 2010, Tulsa game in 2011, Utah game in 2012, and--wait for it--BSU game in 2012.



Yes, Riley is still hurting. Low back injury. Not going away anytime soon.

If in fact Riley is unable to perform due to an injury, I would personally prefer to play Lark and sprinkle in alot more Hill. If it's not due to the injury, we need to ask ourselves, what is the problem? Why do we have a quarterback that is sleepwalking through a rivalry game until the 4th quarter?

Lawboy wrote:
Let me simplify your argument for you: you like a healthy RIley, not an unhealthy one.



When Riley is healthy, he plays well. See UW game in 2010, healthy games in 2011. When he is hurt, he struggles. See AFa, FSU games in 2010, Tulsa game in 2011, Utah game in 2012, and--wait for it--BSU game in 2012.



Yes, Riley is still hurting. Low back injury. Not going away anytime soon.

I think you are somewhat right, and that means he needs to be benched, WHETHER OR NOT HE ASKS FOR IT. (Stupid coaching here, if you ask me. A leader of the team is never going to ask to sit out, or tell you that he isn't ready to go. Especially when he has talent behind him, and he has limited talent to begin with, and the only thing that evens the playing field is he has an immense drive and stubborness.)



He is pissing away games that Lark or T Hill can win us, combined with our defense. (Not saying that they will, but they *can*. And Riley is not a near good enough upper body qb -including the mental/brains portion - to be even an average qb without his lower half.)



But, I can simplify it further for you. He isn't a good qb, and adequate defenses with good coaches can take away any of his effectiveness by spying with a linebacker, and playing bump coverage on the outside, and then playing the ball.

Lawboy wrote:
Let me simplify your argument for you: you like a healthy RIley, not an unhealthy one.



When Riley is healthy, he plays well. See UW game in 2010, healthy games in 2011. When he is hurt, he struggles. See AFa, FSU games in 2010, Tulsa game in 2011, Utah game in 2012, and--wait for it--BSU game in 2012.



Yes, Riley is still hurting. Low back injury. Not going away anytime soon.

What about last year vs. Hawaii?

Wow. What a shocker. People are just figuring this out?

With all the anti-hype developed over the over-hype and poor performance of Jake and this offense; coupled with struggling horribly vs TCU and moderately vs teams like Tulsa, why are some fans so surprised?

Why is anyone caught off guard that Riley would put himself first over a victory or that he would be so absolutely convinced that he gives byu the best chance to win, even though he is injured; OR that he would mask and/or minimize his injury......I MEAN C'MON!!

Riley has amazing heart and very strong leadership. But, his flaws will continue to catch up starting tonight. And when they do, his leadership factor diminishes, as it did for a whole quarter vs Utah--glad he pulled it together. But, we'll see how long it takes for coaches and or teammates to figure out Riley's double threat becomes 1.5 threat when he is injured and that increases chances for losing.

It's going to be another "bad day in Mudville" again tonight.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Riley needs to play like he did against Washington St and not Utah. He wasn't good enough.



It's too early to start talking about benching Riley. If he struggles against Boise, then we need to start thinking about making a change. If he comes out and stinks against Hawaii, then I can justify a change at the half.



There is a standard to meet when you're a QB at BYU. It's a 135 PER. One game below the standard doesn't justify a benching. Two games well below the standard, might bring up the question.

You forget that he is a senior and the leader of the team. 154 PER was it for senior starting qbs?



Whether it is physical or mental, Riley Nelson and the BYU offense is losing games that the defense should be winning them. Just like last year. Special teams needs to stup up too, though the main problem is the offense and the qb who leads them. The defense hasn't quit, yet. They will pretty soon though. As a defense, you can only turn the ball over to an offense that fumbles the ball 10 times in a game and throws INTs so many times before you get pissed and take your ball home to play.



The defense is getting it done, until they decide not to. If we struggle in the Boise and then the Hawaii game, look for a second half blowout against the Warriors just like last years' Utah game.

Fair enough. There are essentially two standards. Seniors should be held to the higher standard, I think it was 154 PER, but at a minimum they should be meeting the 135 standard. A BYU QB isn't failing at the position until they fall below the 135 standard.

mcgregor wrote:

Let me simplify your argument for you: you like a healthy RIley, not an unhealthy one.



When Riley is healthy, he plays well. See UW game in 2010, healthy games in 2011. When he is hurt, he struggles. See AFa, FSU games in 2010, Tulsa game in 2011, Utah game in 2012, and--wait for it--BSU game in 2012.



Yes, Riley is still hurting. Low back injury. Not going away anytime soon.

What about last year vs. Hawaii?

Exception to the rule game, because Hawaii was awful on defense.



All I can say is that you beleive RN when he says his back feels great, you probably beleived Jordan Wynn when he said his arm felt strong, and that John White was ready to go vs. BYU.

SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
Riley needs to play like he did against Washington St and not Utah. He wasn't good enough.



It's too early to start talking about benching Riley. If he struggles against Boise, then we need to start thinking about making a change. If he comes out and stinks against Hawaii, then I can justify a change at the half.



There is a standard to meet when you're a QB at BYU. It's a 135 PER. One game below the standard doesn't justify a benching. Two games well below the standard, might bring up the question.

You forget that he is a senior and the leader of the team. 154 PER was it for senior starting qbs?



Whether it is physical or mental, Riley Nelson and the BYU offense is losing games that the defense should be winning them. Just like last year. Special teams needs to stup up too, though the main problem is the offense and the qb who leads them. The defense hasn't quit, yet. They will pretty soon though. As a defense, you can only turn the ball over to an offense that fumbles the ball 10 times in a game and throws INTs so many times before you get pissed and take your ball home to play.



The defense is getting it done, until they decide not to. If we struggle in the Boise and then the Hawaii game, look for a second half blowout against the Warriors just like last years' Utah game.

Fair enough. There are essentially two standards. Seniors should be held to the higher standard, I think it was 154 PER, but at a minimum they should be meeting the 135 standard. A BYU QB isn't failing at the position until they fall below the 135 standard.

If that is the standard then Riley Nelson is failing. His PER for 2012 is 134.2. This includes 1 game against an FCS team, 1 game against a lower level PAC 12 team and 1 game against a suspect PAC 12 team.

Lawboy wrote:
When Riley is healthy, he plays well.

convenient how he is healthy vs the idaho states of the world, and injured whenever its a game that means anything

I still think playing RN limits Doman's playbook. Maybe a reason the option has been called so often

SHIZ wrote:

When Riley is healthy, he plays well.

convenient how he is healthy vs the idaho states of the world, and injured whenever its a game that means anything

This is false. He was injured in the Idaho game and missed the New Mexico St game - probably the two least meaning games on the schedule last year.

And Heaps tore it up vs. an awful NMSU team.



Fact isw, BYU needs better QB play vs. the tougher teams. Been an issue for a long time. We get it vs the average to bad teams, and struggle to get it against the good to great ones. From Max to Heaps to Riley. And until it changes, BYU will struggle to consistently win those games.

rblack wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Riley needs to play like he did against Washington St and not Utah. He wasn't good enough.



It's too early to start talking about benching Riley. If he struggles against Boise, then we need to start thinking about making a change. If he comes out and stinks against Hawaii, then I can justify a change at the half.



There is a standard to meet when you're a QB at BYU. It's a 135 PER. One game below the standard doesn't justify a benching. Two games well below the standard, might bring up the question.

You forget that he is a senior and the leader of the team. 154 PER was it for senior starting qbs?



Whether it is physical or mental, Riley Nelson and the BYU offense is losing games that the defense should be winning them. Just like last year. Special teams needs to stup up too, though the main problem is the offense and the qb who leads them. The defense hasn't quit, yet. They will pretty soon though. As a defense, you can only turn the ball over to an offense that fumbles the ball 10 times in a game and throws INTs so many times before you get pissed and take your ball home to play.



The defense is getting it done, until they decide not to. If we struggle in the Boise and then the Hawaii game, look for a second half blowout against the Warriors just like last years' Utah game.

Fair enough. There are essentially two standards. Seniors should be held to the higher standard, I think it was 154 PER, but at a minimum they should be meeting the 135 standard. A BYU QB isn't failing at the position until they fall below the 135 standard.

If that is the standard then Riley Nelson is failing. His PER for 2012 is 134.2. This includes 1 game against an FCS team, 1 game against a lower level PAC 12 team and 1 game against a suspect PAC 12 team.

134.2 is less than 1 point below the standard. It's within 0.59% of the standard. I think that's close enough to grade him, on the year as an average QB.



Looking at each individual game, he passed the Washington St game easily (nearly 20pts above the standard), he passed the Weber game by essentially meeting the standard (137.23 PER) and failed the Utah game (more than 20 points below the standard).



Boise is a very important game for BYU and Riley. If he repeats a Utah performance, that does not bode well for BYU going forward. As I said in another thread, if he fails to perform again, it's time to start thinking about whether a change should be made.



If I were to grade Riley's season so far, it'd probably be a C-. He got a solid B vs WSU, a C vs WSU and an D- vs Utah (only because he did bring us back). He needs to play better, no doubt or excuses about it.

SpiffCoug wrote:

134.2 is less than 1 point below the standard. It's within 0.59% of the standard. I think that's close enough to grade him, on the year as an average QB.



Looking at each individual game, he passed the Washington St game easily (nearly 20pts above the standard), he passed the Weber game by essentially meeting the standard (137.23 PER) and failed the Utah game (more than 20 points below the standard).



Boise is a very important game for BYU and Riley. If he repeats a Utah performance, that does not bode well for BYU going forward. As I said in another thread, if he fails to perform again, it's time to start thinking about whether a change should be made.



If I were to grade Riley's season so far, it'd probably be a C-. He got a solid B vs WSU, a C vs WSU and an D- vs Utah (only because he did bring us back). He needs to play better, no doubt or excuses about it.

Fair enough, however, that still doesn't address why he is performing below average. If it is due to injury, let's get him healthy by bringing in a healthy quarterback and letting him rest and heal. If it is due to complacency, let's open up the quarterback competition and light up his competetive side.

Good points. If he's injured, he needs to let coaches know that he's more than just hurting. If you're injured, you need to get healthy. You can play through pain, just not injury.



I don't think it's complacency. But he does need to be honest with the coaches about how much he's hurting/injured. He was honest in the Weber game at the half. He needs to be honest now as well.

Not sure Riley deserves the "Honest about injuries" badge. Plenty of evidence "slow to get off the turf". But he's been effective about covering up injuries in past.

Additionally, wasn't it part of the game plan to give lark and Hill a quarter?