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10 Thoughts on BYU Football

by mcgregor · 9/20/2012

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mcgregor
1. Riley Nelson is not a good QB. He's a scrapper. He's a fighter. He's a leader. But a good QB he is not. He simply cannot see the entire field, makes poor decisions, and cannot complete many of the throws even standard D1 QBs need to make.



2. Bronco is a good coach, just not a perfect one. I think Bronco is a good coach; in fact, better than average. I see him as having a system that is 80% complete. Once he figures out that last 20%, he will be stellar. Until then, Utahs will continue to happen. The problem is it seems Bronco is misinterpreting events in a way that will damn his progression. For instance, he views the Utah game as evidence in his team's undying yearning to win, rather than, more accurately, a team completely spooked and outplayed by an inferior opponent.



3. Coaching lost us the Utah game. Yes, players on the field made mistakes, but the majority of the mistakes were the result of players not being prepared, both mentally and physically. That is on coaching. Every year Utah, regardless of their quality, plays BYU hard. That is also the product of coaching. Good coaching, that is (but again, not perfect coaching; else, Kyle Whittingham would learn to win more games).



4. Not the best players play. Hate to break it to Cougar fans, but the best talent at BYU doesn't always see the field. Yes, Bronco wants to win, and he will do what he thinks he needs to to win. The problem is that Bronco thinks about much more than talent, and sometimes his calculations include things that may or MAY NOT produce better on-field results. For instance, let's say Bronco wants to inspire by creating opportunities for walk-on RMs, so he may give one a starting spot over a more athletic non RM. In Bronco's mind, he's minimizing the entitlement that the more athletic kid may have, and he's creating a meritocracy. But what he fails to see is that he disgruntles some players when they interpret Bronco as playing favorites, especially when basing that criteria off personal attributes the player may not control.



5. BYU will not improve until Bronco improves. Like I mentioned before, Bronco has to be honest with himself and crack the last few walls keeping him from being a good coach. The talent is there. The coaching is not. I have faith, though, as Bronco has shown a willingness to fire coaches and bench players in the past, and to change his approach to certain things. Just hope he is open-minded.



6. Riley Nelson makes Doman look bad. Brandon Doman has some growing-up to do as far being an OC goes, but I am not faulting him too much for this year, as Riley Nelson simply cannot deliver a diversified and robust offense to any OC. And unfortunately, RN is the right man for the job right now.



7. Bronco's main quirk is his insecurity. Bronco loves Riley because Riley is Bronco Incarnate. He's another Rudy. Bronco was a less-talented player who found his way to ultimately beat BYU, who otherwise cut Bronco's dreams short. Now Bronco is looking for others just like him. This is ONLY attributable to Bronco's insecurity about his path to where his is today. Similarly, Bronco is trying to prove that things can be done differently and still be successful. He still has this yet to prove.



8. Riley Nelson is the worst QB in decades. Yup, I'm saying it. But let me qualify this: I mean he is the worst BYU QB to be the unquestioned leader. So Jake Heaps, Matt Berry, etc--those guys don't count. Riley--God bless his soul--simply does not belong behind a BYU center.



9. Riley Nelson is BYU's best chance to finish out the season strong. Despite what I said about RN in #8, there's no question he leads the team, and that's he's the best option right now to move forward. I don't think allowing Taysom Hill to take over would be a smart idea.



10. You are all right. I've perused the board here the last couple of days. Excellent thoughts. It's important to understand that almost all of you are right. College Football is a complicated sport, and successful games, coaches, players, and programs requires a plethora of inputs. What keeps us fans and not football gurus is out inability to see all the inputs and to know how to put it all together. Thus, rather than attacking one another, we should be learning from each other--seeing that others are seeing what maybe we are not.





I know I've been rather critical in this post. Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm a die-hard BYU fan, and will always be so. I love BYU, I love Bronco, I love our university and what Bronco is doing for it. I just want more. And, if Riley Nelson was here in front of me, I'd shake his hand, sincerely wish him the best of luck, and slip some cold hard cash in his backpack.



GO COUGS.
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SpiffCoug
Re: Point 4, I'm trying to think who are the more talented players who should be playing more. Taysom Hill should have seen a few extra snaps against Utah. Williams saw plenty of snaps. Not sure who else.



Re: Point 8, other than the QBs who were worse, Riley is the worst. Here is the same argument: Bronco is the best coach who rarely loses games he win 83% of his games, when he's not playing teams that usually beat him like Florida St, TCU and Utah.
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rblack
If in fact 8 is true, 9 must be false because Lark is talented and would certainly be an option over the "worst quarterback in decades." Conversely, if 9 is true, 8 must necessarily be false.
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BYZoo
I think I understand what mcgregor is saying about Riley. He's definitely not the best quarterback that's played at BYU in the last while, as a PURE QUARTERBACK. Honestly, he's a just a tough guy who knows how to win. He darn near pulled out the train wreck that was the Yewtah game on Saturday (a half second more protection on the last play and he throws a touchdown to Cody). He played well enough to win that game, for sure. It wasn't his fault that the punt cover team couldn't cover a punt, that the center snapped the ball at the wrong time, that the o-line made seven (SEVEN!!) false start penalties and didn't protect him well on the last play. The interception he threw was bad, and it cost us 3 points, but otherwise, he played well enough to win that game. He can win us games, and he's proven that. How far he can take us is hard to say, but his limitations will hurt, especially if the other offensive problems (read o-line) aren't improved. I love the guy because he's a winner and a leader. I wish he had Jake Heaps' arm (not his accuracy or touch, though). Seriously, Riley reminds me of Joe Kapp, for those of you who are old enough to remember the tough Vikings quarterback of the late '60s and early '70s. Nothing that guy did was pretty. He just won. Hope we see that tonight.
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mcgregor
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.
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Guest
mcgregor wrote:
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.


Jake Heaps was the unquestioned starter last year for half the year. He was clearly far far far far far worse than Riley has ever been.
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mcgregor
hawkwing wrote:
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.


Jake Heaps was the unquestioned starter last year for half the year. He was clearly far far far far far worse than Riley has ever been.


But at least sophomore Jake could throw across the field, which senior Riley cannot. Jake had some maturing to do, that's for sure, but at least he could make all the throws he needed to.
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MesaCougFan
I probably would have been happier with the season, if the Y would have triumphed over the U, but lost to BSU, ND & GT, than I will be if the Y beats BSU, ND & GT.



That being said, I think you are wrong. Football games are won in the trenches, and we just aren't getting it done there. In spite of constant punches to the mouth, Riley almost led us to victory. In spite of premature snaps, and rediculous ST play, Riley almost led us to victory.



I strongly contest that Riley is making Doman look bad, and would suggest that Doman's scheme was poor. When your QB is getting knocked around, you call quick hitches and screens to spread the pressure out. I saw none of that.



I was not impressed with Riley's play on Saturday, and expected more. I also have a broad enough view to realize that his play was areflection of a sum of the whole. He was not the blame for our teams performance. He was the reason that we were a chip shoit away from continuing momentum into OT with a likely victory.



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Guest
mcgregor wrote:
mcgregor wrote:
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.


Jake Heaps was the unquestioned starter last year for half the year. He was clearly far far far far far worse than Riley has ever been.


But at least sophomore Jake could throw across the field, which senior Riley cannot. Jake had some maturing to do, that's for sure, but at least he could make all the throws he needed to.


Sorry mcgregor, but you're flat out wrong on this. Jake Heaps couldn't make any of the throws he needed to. His completion percentage shows that. I know you got fully invested in him, but he didn't work out (literally and figuratively).



Riley has a lot of limitations, but far fewer than any QB we've had on the roster since Max Hall.
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rblack
mcgregor wrote:



But at least sophomore Jake could throw across the field, which senior Riley cannot. Jake had some maturing to do, that's for sure, but at least he could make all the throws he needed to.

I have yet to see anything that Jake was able to do that Riley cannot do.
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mcgregor
hawkwing wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.


Jake Heaps was the unquestioned starter last year for half the year. He was clearly far far far far far worse than Riley has ever been.


But at least sophomore Jake could throw across the field, which senior Riley cannot. Jake had some maturing to do, that's for sure, but at least he could make all the throws he needed to.


Sorry mcgregor, but you're flat out wrong on this. Jake Heaps couldn't make any of the throws he needed to. His completion percentage shows that. I know you got fully invested in him, but he didn't work out (literally and figuratively).



Riley has a lot of limitations, but far fewer than any QB we've had on the roster since Max Hall.


Sorry, but I was never "invested" in Jake Heaps. And I don't want to turn this into another Jake v. Riley thread. That wasn't my point. My point is that as far as QB skills are concerned, Riley doesn't have them. Makes Max Hall look like Payton Manning.
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Brayden Green
double post.
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Brayden Green
hawkwing wrote:



Riley has a lot of limitations, but far fewer than any QB we've had on the roster since Max Hall.


signed,



The first 3 quarters of the Utah game



(before T Hill came in on one of his only 2 possesions of the night - first down, and then touchdown pitch - and closed the gap, so that Riley realized the game was still actually within reach and he should actually start playing like a senior qb).
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stuckinbig10country
hawkwing wrote:
#4. This isn't exclusive to this year. It's the very reason some eventual starters quit the team--Andrew Rich being the most notable.



#8. The point is that Riley is the unquestioned starter, and we haven't seen this bad of an unquestioned starter in . . . well, forever.


Jake Heaps was the unquestioned starter last year for half the year. He was clearly far far far far far worse than Riley has ever been.


He was the "unquestioned" starter, even though Spring practice it was an open competition, and in Fall the head coach insisted that a package be put in place for Riley.
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SpiffCoug
Thank goodness Riley was able to get a handful of snaps in those camps!
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SHIZ
rblack wrote:

I have yet to see anything that Jake was able to do that Riley cannot do.


throw the ball to ross apo?
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rblack
SHIZ wrote:

I have yet to see anything that Jake was able to do that Riley cannot do.


throw the ball to ross apo?

When you say that, it causes me to think, is it really a positive that Jake Heaps in 2011 had a 130 PER when throwing to Apo and a 111 per overall, while Nelson had a 103 PER while throwing to Apo and a 153 PER overall?

Is the issue that Nelson isn't getting the ball to Apo enough or was the issue that Heaps was focusing on Apo too much?
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Gunk
I like Apo and want to see him get more catches, but he does seem to drop the ball a lot.
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SpiffCoug
What would help Apo most, is to stay healthy so he can fully practice and develop the timing and chemistry that is so crucial to QB-WR play.



He is clearly talented and we've seen what he can do when he does catch the ball. But his struggles aren't all on the QB, there is plenty he can do to improve his on-the-field contributions.
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byutx
rblack wrote:



But at least sophomore Jake could throw across the field, which senior Riley cannot. Jake had some maturing to do, that's for sure, but at least he could make all the throws he needed to.

I have yet to see anything that Jake was able to do that Riley cannot do.

Rewatch the UTEP and Tulsa bowl games and then you will realize how wrong you are. While you're at it, rewatch the 2010 and 2012 Utah games for the same result.
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