So, we don't have talented players, eh?

I hate when people say "Oh we just don't have talented players". Or, "We'll never be a top team and we just need to lower expectations." It's bullcrap. We have talent now that BYU football has never known. The fact that people like Steve young and Ty detmer, to name a few, were scrawny and relatively undersized scrubs yet were awesome, speaks volumes of how pathetic it is that Bronco can't develop the talent we have with NFL talent like Heaps or Apo (dont get me started about Apo...what a complete and utter waste of talent). Back in the 80s they couldn't have even dreamt of having guys like Apo or Van Noy. Maybe one here or there. But we are full of top talent and yet we look worse. Last but not least, our identity is gone. Of all people, I thought Bronco would be one to preserve tradition and preserve the prototypical BYU offense. But alas, we are now running the effing option with, arguably, one of the worst QB's in the history of BYU football. There, I said it.

lfurr wrote:
I hate when people say "Oh we just don't have talented players". Or, "We'll never be a top team and we just need to lower expectations." It's bullcrap. We have talent now that BYU football has never known. The fact that people like Steve young and Ty detmer, to name a few, were scrawny and relatively undersized scrubs yet were awesome, speaks volumes of how pathetic it is that Bronco can't develop the talent we have with NFL talent like Heaps or Apo (dont get me started about Apo...what a complete and utter waste of talent). Back in the 80s they couldn't have even dreamt of having guys like Apo or Van Noy. Maybe one here or there. But we are full of top talent and yet we look worse. Last but not least, our identity is gone. Of all people, I thought Bronco would be one to preserve tradition and preserve the prototypical BYU offense. But alas, we are now running the effing option with, arguably, one of the worst QB's in the history of BYU football. There, I said it.

• You have no idea whether it's the coaches not coaching players up or if its the players not putting in the work.


• Bronco is getting fantastic results out of the defense. Ignoring that makes your argument weaker.


• If Bronco desperately clung to identity, we'd be doing drop back passing with Riley Nelson and playing defense in the 3-3-5. We would not have even gone to a bowl game last year. Any coach worth his salt maximizes his players' strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.


• I didn't mind in '96 when we ran all over Utah. I bet that game still has you fuming.


• I also didn't mind when we ditched tradition in '01 and ran the option all over the place. 12-0 felt pretty good. I'll bet you were pretty pissed watching us score 70 on Tulane with mostly rushing.


• Riley Nelson is nowhere near the worst QB in the history of BYU football. Did you hear? He threw more TDs Saturday than Max Hall did against Utah in '07 (2 to 0). And he led the team to as many points in regulation as Max Hall's best game against Utah.


• Your anger is misplaced. That game hinged on a few big plays that all went Utah's way - and we STILL almost won. We made mistakes. They cost us. It's sports, that happens. Where were your concerns when we were winning, by the way?

There are important, valid concerns with this team, but none of them are mentioned in your post.

Yes.

lfurr wrote:
But alas, we are now running the effing option with, arguably, one of the worst QB's in the history of BYU football. There, I said it.

One of the worst QBs in the history of BYU football transferred out last winter. Stats don't lie.



Just like the stats show Riley was very poor last game.

Fact, we have more talented people coming into the program now than any time in the history of the program. Fact, we've had two straight years with no one drafted in the NFL. I believe on Crowton's worst team, there were more people drafted than have been drafted in the Bronco Mendenhall era combined.



I'm not sure that any player that was recruited by Bronco Mendenhall to BYU has been drafted. In fact, I'm almost positive that no one he's recruited as head coach has been drafted (might change this year with Kaveinga or KVN if he leaves).



So, are we to believe that all of the talented people that have come into the program are just not hard workers and thus fail because of it? None of this goes on the coaching staff? I like coach, but this has been, and probably will continue to be, his shortcoming as a coach.

Missions.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Fact, we have more talented people coming into the program now than any time in the history of the program. Fact, we've had two straight years with no one drafted in the NFL. I believe on Crowton's worst team, there were more people drafted than have been drafted in the Bronco Mendenhall era combined.



I'm not sure that any player that was recruited by Bronco Mendenhall to BYU has been drafted. In fact, I'm almost positive that no one he's recruited as head coach has been drafted (might change this year with Kaveinga or KVN if he leaves).



So, are we to believe that all of the talented people that have come into the program are just not hard workers and thus fail because of it? None of this goes on the coaching staff? I like coach, but this has been, and probably will continue to be, his shortcoming as a coach.

So, the players that Lavell recruited went to the NFL, surprise! The Players that Crowton recruited didn't, shocker! And now that Bronco has brought us back to national prominence, we are getting "more talented people into the program now than any time in the history of the program."



I'm not seeing the downside here. Bronco is getting BYU's best players ever, and we'll see them on the field in the next several years. What's bad about this? Do you think it's a coincidence that our recruiting is going very well when we're ranked every season? We haven't seen most of Bronco's recruits even finish their time at BYU, so to say that he has come up short in sending HIS guys to the NFL is a bit premature.

hawkwing wrote:
Missions.

Wait - so you're saying the NFL doesn't like 26-year-old rookies? But, they're so much older and more mature! They have a huge advantage!

redneckjedi wrote:

Missions.

Wait - so you're saying the NFL doesn't like 26-year-old rookies? But, they're so much older and more mature! They have a huge advantage!

:lol: :evil: :lol:

Saying that BYU is getting better recruits and so should be "better" --by which I think you mean have a better record, or a better record against certain teams-- ignores the fact that the competition has also improved. Utah especially. Give credit to Urban. Give credit to Kyle. Doesn't take away from what Bronco has done.



Not that he's done things perfectly. He'd admit as much--though not as much as some (myself included, probably) would like. I think it's clear that for a player in a leadership position to work out under Bronco they have to not only be talented but also willing to work hard; Bronco's not one to sniff somebody's posterior, so guys that need that are going to languish and get passed up. Does that mean that the position coach didn't develop them or that the player didn't develop?

I'm a Heaps-er. Still. That doesn't mean I don't think BD made the right choice to bench him. I think the kid has great talent and sunk himself by not putting in the work to improve himself. Could the coaching staff have done more? Probably. I'll never know. But the 5-star kids have to take as much responsibility for their own development as the walk-ons. Riley has made a lot of developmental progress. I thought he'd be worse than he's shown to be. He's made progress. And he consistently outperformed Lark in practices, so what are the coaches supposed to do?

If Bronco has a fault with player development it's with players who think they've arrived and aren't willing to put in the the work-to-the-bone effort he asks. Especially with players in leadership positions.

Except that Crowton's players did get drafted.



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Apo isn't a huge waste of talent. He's a huge waste of unused talent. There's something wrong when he was scoring a TD a game before the QB change and now he's not getting thrown to. He was wide open all night against Utah. Look at the upper right hand corner of the screen on the last throwing play, there was nobody within 5 feet of him. Besides that he was being covered by a 5'9" back up....are you kidding me. Riley has no field vision and is in love with his roomy Hoffman. That's the problem.

Cougest wrote:
Apo isn't a huge waste of talent. He's a huge waste of unused talent. There's something wrong when he was scoring a TD a game before the QB change and now he's not getting thrown to. He was wide open all night against Utah. Look at the upper right hand corner of the screen on the last throwing play, there was nobody within 5 feet of him. Besides that he was being covered by a 5'9" back up....are you kidding me. Riley has no field vision and is in love with his roomy Hoffman. That's the problem.

The problem was Heaps locking into Apo - which resulted in hanging Apo out to dry getting him knocked our of two games. Even Heaps started to discover Hoff was more productive than Apo.



Heaps and Apo need to look in the mirror and ask themselves how they can improve - or they will never achieve.



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stuckinbig10country wrote:
Except that Crowton's players did get drafted.



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Matriculation is the issue.



From 2003-2008, BYU recruited 105 HS seniors who commited to play for BYU. As if it needs to be stated, HS seniors are the lifeblood of a quality program. You have more time to develop them than you do Junior College players or transfers from other programs. The idea is when theses HS seniors turn into Juniors and Seniors in your program they will be big time contributors with experiences.



Out of those 106 players recruited from 2003-2008 that could have played their senior year in 2011, 27 actually completed their senior year for BYU. Boise State recruited 98 HS seniors during the same span, 63 of them completed their senior year through 2011.



Here are those players that were HS recruits for BYU during this time:



13 recruits in '03 (9) Pitta, Payne, Attig, Willing, Van Sweeden, Speredon, Reynolds, Nixon, Denney

17 recruits in '04 (6) Nelson, Reed, Feinga, Brown, Putnam, Alletto

15 recruits in '05 (8) Reynolds, Hafoka, Tonga, Ashworth, Doman, Hooks, Jorgensen, McLaughlin

21 recruits in '06* (2) Bradley and Jacobson

22 recruits in '07* (2) Diluigi and Pendleton

18 recruits in '08* (0)



*By my count there will be 14 seniors from these high school classes in 2012.



This is why Bronco doesn't have any of his recruits as NFL players (although technically Unga was his recruit). They don't or haven't made it to their senior year like most programs would have their players do.