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My gripe against ALUF's

by KingCoug · 9/18/2012

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KingCoug
(ALUF's means Active LDS Ute Fans)





You root for a school that is not Church-owned over a school that is Church-owned.



You root for a school that does not embrace the Honor Code over a school that does embrace the Honor Code.



You root for a school that, while once similar to BYU, has increasingly become the antithesis of BYU. As well as many things the Church itself stands for.



You root for a school which has a lot of fans that hate your Church and religion and use the rivalry as an outlet for that hate.



You root for a school that was invited to the PAC-12 over BYU, in large part, because of bigotry against your Church and your religion.



And you will likely continue to foot for the U, while denying, minimizing, excusing, or justifying the above facts. Even as the above facts become more apparent as time goes by.
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dank80
I still can't figure out why some people perceive us as having a holier than thou attitude? Couldn't possibly come from posts like this one.



I say let them cheer for whomever they like. If they want to attend or cheer for the U, that's their problem. It doesn't make them any less of a person or member of the church just because they're not cheering for BYU.
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KingCoug
dank80 wrote:
I still can't figure out why some people perceive us as having a holier than thou attitude? Couldn't possibly come from posts like this one.



I say let them cheer for whomever they like. If they want to attend or cheer for the U, that's their problem. It doesn't make them any less of a person or member of the church just because they're not cheering for BYU.


Your post was essentially a complete dodge of every point I made above.



And me simply making those points doesn't necessarily make me holier-than-thou.
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jacksonman
Have to agree with dank80 here. No problem with LDS Ute fans, especially if they are U alumni. Almost went to the U law school myself (stayed at BYU). Sometimes I wish I would have.



Some U fans are horrible. Many are not. Have some great Ute fans around me. Holier than thou LDS members are far worse than drunk Ute fans. At least they are drunk and have an excuse for their behavior.
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BerliNY
KingCoug wrote:
I still can't figure out why some people perceive us as having a holier than thou attitude? Couldn't possibly come from posts like this one.



I say let them cheer for whomever they like. If they want to attend or cheer for the U, that's their problem. It doesn't make them any less of a person or member of the church just because they're not cheering for BYU.


Your post was essentially a complete dodge of every point I made above.



And me simply making those points doesn't necessarily make me holier-than-thou.


Your reasons make sense to you, their reasons for cheering for the U make sense to them. If you really want to know what those reasons are, go ask a Ute fan. But asking questions that are so one-sided, on a BYU board, isn't going to get you anywhere closer to understanding how a person could be active LDS and also a U fan at the same time. If all you wanted to do was gripe well, then, you've griped.
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dank80
KingCoug wrote:
(ALUF's means Active LDS Ute Fans)



I'll write my justifications in red. I can see your points on all these topics.

You root for a school that is not Church-owned over a school that is Church-owned.

This doesn't mean they're rooting against the church IMO

You root for a school that does not embrace the Honor Code over a school that does embrace the Honor Code.

Almost no other school "embraces" an honor code. I'm sure there are a few. This doesn't mean that a fan or student of a school can't live by their own personal honor code/church standards



You root for a school that, while once similar to BYU, has increasingly become the antithesis of BYU. As well as many things the Church itself stands for.I have no idea what they stand for.



You root for a school which has a lot of fans that hate your Church and religion and use the rivalry as an outlet for that hate.

I cheer for the Utah Jazz. They likely also have many fans that hate my religion. I don't understand why that would change my mind about cheering for my team?



You root for a school that was invited to the PAC-12 over BYU, in large part, because of bigotry against your Church and your religion.

I wouldn't have turned down the invite. Would you?


I know too many wonderful people who are U fans. I'd imagine you do as well but who knows. It doesn't bother me a bit who they choose to root for. I do admire your concern for your fellow men though. I just don't think looking down on them for rooting for a different school is going to convert them. You say your post is not necessarily holier than thou but I would imagine that many would perceive it that way.
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Cougarbib
dank80 wrote:
I still can't figure out why some people perceive us as having a holier than thou attitude? Couldn't possibly come from posts like this one.



I say let them cheer for whomever they like. If they want to attend or cheer for the U, that's their problem. It doesn't make them any less of a person or member of the church just because they're not cheering for BYU.

And besides that - OP forgot - they all tried to get into BYU but could not get in.



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KingCoug
dank80 wrote:
This doesn't mean they're rooting against the church IMO


Maybe not directly. But they're rooting against a Church-owned school. One that is synonymous with the Church in the eyes of most of the outside world.


Almost no other school "embraces" an honor code. I'm sure there are a few. This doesn't mean that a fan or student of a school can't live by their own personal honor code/church standards


Which is why I''m not posing this question to all sports fans across the globe, but to LDS Ute fans who presumably live that Honor Code. Again, it's about what the respective schools represent and the growing difference between BYU and Utah.


I have no idea what they stand for.


A cop out answer. We are all aware of the the stuff that goes on up at Utah that wouldn't fly at BYU - beer is king, religion is mocked by secularists, homosexuality championed and embraced, certain "progressive" politics and policies that the Church wouldn't agree with, and so on.


I cheer for the Utah Jazz. They likely also have many fans that hate my religion. I don't understand why that would change my mind about cheering for my team?


Another cop out answer. There isn't an in-state pro-basketball team owned by the Church. This is about BYU being right down the road and LDS Ute fans choosing to root for Utah anyway.


I wouldn't have turned down the invite. Would you?


The question isn't about Utah accepting the PAC 12 invite. It's about LDS Ute fans not caring that the invite came largely because of anti-LDS bias in the PAC 12.


I know too many wonderful people who are U fans. I'd imagine you do as well but who knows. It doesn't bother me a bit who they choose to root for. I do admire your concern for your fellow men though. I just don't think looking down on them for rooting for a different school is going to convert them. You say your post is not necessarily holier than thou but I would imagine that many would perceive it that way.


I'm under no illusions about converting anyone. This is simply about posting some "inconvenient" facts that people don't like to acknowledge but are true nonetheless.
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KingCoug
BerliNY wrote:
Your reasons make sense to you, their reasons for cheering for the U make sense to them. If you really want to know what those reasons are, go ask a Ute fan. But asking questions that are so one-sided, on a BYU board, isn't going to get you anywhere closer to understanding how a person could be active LDS and also a U fan at the same time. If all you wanted to do was gripe well, then, you've griped.


Well most LDS Ute fans haven't even bothered to address these inconvenient questions. Much easier to pretend these issues don't exist at all.



And if asked, they usually get defensive and attempt to portray the one asking them as arrogant and holier-than-thou.
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jacksonman
Last I checked, a huge percentage of the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve and other GA's attended the U over BYU. I guess we should ask them how they can support such an evil school?!
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KingCoug
jacksonman wrote:
Last I checked, a huge percentage of the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve and other GA's attended the U over BYU. I guess we should ask them how they can support such an evil school?!


A counter-point that is often brought up.



But it goes to my point that the U of U used to be much like BYU. It was the U of U, decades ago, that many Church leaders attended.



The U of U today is no longer that same school. And as time goes by, the differences become more and more apparent. Even if many don't want to acknowledge them.
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Mingjai
Sorry, I don't think the Lord or the Church care which school's football teams any of us root for. If I had gone to a different school, I would cheer for them instead of BYU, even Stanford, Cal, or Utah--I guess I should go an repent now for even considering the possibility of cheering for the devils' schools.
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Y 4 Ever
jacksonman wrote:
Last I checked, a huge percentage of the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve and other GA's attended the U over BYU. I guess we should ask them how they can support such an evil school?!

ya, that was a long, long time ago. Call me crazy, but I'm guessing the ewe is just a little bit different now. My guess is many would make a different choice today. That is, if they could even get in



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Y 4 Ever
Mingjai wrote:
Sorry, I don't think the Lord or the Church care which school's football teams any of us root for. If I had gone to a different school, I would cheer for them instead of BYU, even Stanford, Cal, or Utah--I guess I should go an repent now for even considering the possibility of cheering for the devils' schools.

yes. You should. I attended the ewe, and graduated at the very dawn of the football programs existence (aka 2003). Not once did I ever even consider cheering for them.



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KingCoug
Mingjai wrote:
Sorry, I don't think the Lord or the Church care which school's football teams any of us root for. If I had gone to a different school, I would cheer for them instead of BYU, even Stanford, Cal, or Utah--I guess I should go an repent now for even considering the possibility of cheering for the devils' schools.


Nobody is claiming ALUF's are destined for hell because they root for the U.



But there's a real question about a certain amount of loyalty here and now.
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DarthMagnus
[/quote]



Nobody is claiming ALUF's are destined for hell because they root for the U.



But there's a real question about a certain amount of loyalty here and now.[/quote]



Sorry, if it doesn't send them to hell, it ain't wrong. And if it ain't wrong, then one shouldn't be condemning them.
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Mingjai
KingCoug wrote:
Sorry, I don't think the Lord or the Church care which school's football teams any of us root for. If I had gone to a different school, I would cheer for them instead of BYU, even Stanford, Cal, or Utah--I guess I should go an repent now for even considering the possibility of cheering for the devils' schools.


Nobody is claiming ALUF's are destined for hell because they root for the U.



But there's a real question about a certain amount of loyalty here and now.


It sure sounds like you're making a moral argument. I don't think any member of the Church should ever feel obligated to cheer for BYU as opposed to any other school.
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DarthMagnus
Mingjai wrote:
Mingjai wrote:
Sorry, I don't think the Lord or the Church care which school's football teams any of us root for. If I had gone to a different school, I would cheer for them instead of BYU, even Stanford, Cal, or Utah--I guess I should go an repent now for even considering the possibility of cheering for the devils' schools.


Nobody is claiming ALUF's are destined for hell because they root for the U.



But there's a real question about a certain amount of loyalty here and now.


It sure sounds like you're making a moral argument. I don't think any member of the Church should ever feel obligated to cheer for BYU as opposed to any other school.


He is most certainly attempting to make a moral and religious argument against the U. He is just being completely passive-aggressive about it, so much so that he doesn't even recognize it apparently.
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KingCoug
Mingjai wrote:

It sure sounds like you're making a moral argument. I don't think any member of the Church should ever feel obligated to cheer for BYU as opposed to any other school.


Nobody said anything about being "obligated." But one can ask why they would ever root against BYU. Even if they root for Utah or some other school the rest of the time, to root for any school over BYU? It's disloyal. Plain and simple.
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KingCoug
DarthMagnus wrote:
He is most certainly attempting to make a moral and religious argument against the U. He is just being completely passive-aggressive about it, so much so that he doesn't even recognize it apparently.


If I am, what's your point? The moral/religious points I made in the original post speak for themselves. To respond by saying, "You shouldn't bring morality or religion into sports" is to avoid the points made. In other words, another cop out.
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