Agree with Vai on this One

I agree with Vai on this: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765604179/Vais-View-Im-not-checking-my-religion-at-rivalrys-door.html?pg=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The hate ruins the rivalry for me and it's no reason to start acting like an bigot. Trying to remember the player Holland mentions in his talk. Was it Bobick?

One team embraced the hate. One fan based embraced the hate. One program used the hate to get back into the rivalry. And one didn't.



There is and has been way too much hate in this rivalry (although, I think it's been greatly subdued this year) and it wasn't BYU that promulgated the hate.



I blame three entities for the hate in the rivalry: Ron McBride, Urban Meyer and the local talk radio triumvirate of David James, Patrick Kinihan and Gordon Monson.

We all have the ability to choose how to respond to what we see and hear. I hope I've matured enough to "count to 10". I've found myself avoiding facebook lately because I find myself getting angry at some of the posts, and I'm tempted to respond harshly. Sometimes it's better to flee the temptation. If we find ourselves at the point of our anger being inflamed by what we're reading or hearing, it's time to stop reading for a while.

I'm pretty sure it was Chris Burgess but I'm not positive. I thought he eventually left (was it Duke) and came to the U and the fans were relentless when we played. I'm not sure how it would have been in the Delta Center though. (we should be all cheering Burgess now triggering the events that brought Clevland and Dave Rose to town)



I think Urban Meyer caused the hate as much as anyone. Roni Mac and La'vell did such a good job and bridging the divide I don't see it coming from him and though Kyle does nothing to temper it I don't hear about him encouraging it the way Meyer did. It might be just because Utah became so competitve with Meyer but he seemed to have really embraced the hate.



Monson would be 2nd for me. That guys career is based on making people angry.

Another article by Vai that further proves to me that he has changed alegence and is now favoring the utes. How in the world does the game against OK state in basketball prove that the rivalry is to hate filled. I will agree with Elder Holland that the BYU fans in that basketball game were an embarrassment to the institution and certainly that was not an isolated incident when it comes to some BYU fans being an embarrasment to the institution but the BYU/utah rivalry is vitriolic for the most part because of utah fans. BYU gets the penalty for the reaction to the action in most cases. It irritates me that BYU is getting blamed for the hate in the rivalry by the media. The only incident where the BYU fan instigated the action was with the ute cheerleader and that idiot got his just due from the cheerleader himself. The incident with kwit's wife was instigated by the utes, it was widely published after the fact.



I have a friend at work that was planning on going to the BYU game last year in Provo, he asked me how it would be. He was afraid that he would get abused by the fans. I assured him that he would be treated with complete respect unless he started something. He came back from that game (the 54-10 blowout mind you) and had nothing but good to say about BYU fans and how respectful they were to him. How many BYU fans who have attended the game in SLC can say the same about ute fans. Vai needs to get his facts straight.

Stirfry wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was Chris Burgess but I'm not positive. I thought he eventually left (was it Duke) and came to the U and the fans were relentless when we played. I'm not sure how it would have been in the Delta Center though. (we should be all cheering Burgess now triggering the events that brought Clevland and Dave Rose to town)



I think Urban Meyer caused the hate as much as anyone. Roni Mac and La'vell did such a good job and bridging the divide I don't see it coming from him and though Kyle does nothing to temper it I don't hear about him encouraging it the way Meyer did. It might be just because Utah became so competitve with Meyer but he seemed to have really embraced the hate.



Monson would be 2nd for me. That guys career is based on making people angry.

the player that elder holland was referring to was a guard who transferred from BYU to Oklahoma state. when we played ok state in basketball in the Delta center that guard was starting for their team and got verbally abused by the "classy" BYU fans in the stands all game long. It was an embarrasment. I don't remember the name of the player.

I think your right.



Not one of our better moments

It was Daniel Bobik.

According to the article Vai had the opportunity to speak to the Ute team this year, but hasn't been free to speak to the BYU team.... Yeah... I'll listen to him - no agenda there :roll:

To claim that all the hate in this rivalry is the fault of Utah, or the media is ridiculous. There has been plenty of misbehavior on both sides over the years. Need I remind you about Max Hall's "I hate everything about them" comments? But I suppose that wasn't his fault right? Because he was somehow justified in saying what he said by the Utes themselves?

I don't buy it.

People need to chill and remember that it's just sports.When people make a football game into a personal thing against the opposite team then it's no longer fun.

As much as I want to beat the Utes I don't hold anything personal against any of them, and I don't hate them.

tripwire wrote:
To claim that all the hate in this rivalry is the fault of Utah, or the media is ridiculous. There has been plenty of misbehavior on both sides over the years. Need I remind you about Max Hall's "I hate everything about them" comments? But I suppose that wasn't his fault right? Because he was somehow justified in saying what he said by the Utes themselves?

I don't buy it.

People need to chill and remember that it's just sports.When people make a football game into a personal thing against the opposite team then it's no longer fun.

As much as I want to beat the Utes I don't hold anything personal against any of them, and I don't hate them.

+100



Who cares who started it. It takes two to tango. If the Utes want to "hate" us, then let them. Doesn't mean we have to respond. It's a game.

Quite frankly, and I know this won't be popular with some folks, but we see this in the political spectrum as well. An apologist who has faded loyalties and to some degree traded loyalties and then has the temerity to, under the guise of unifying "everybody" blame the big brother and coddle the little brother, who thru hate, has become a force to be reckoned with--even now, this week!! And with unintended or maybe intended consequences and Yes, through big brothers' own faults, we become an easy target.

Ironic isn't it, that Vai would, under the guise of religious and civil treatment of others--not "check his religion at the door"-- except within this article where he embeds, maybe even veils (or not so veiled) his own self-justification for why he has moved away from BYU. Cold be argued that it's even hypocritical to use his "volunteer" DesNews status to offer some weak statement--not to be confused by an apology--all cloaked by invoking Elder Holland teachings to further explain why he moved away from BYU and how "magnanimous and well connected" he is and that speaking to Utah wasn't a slam to BYU; and why he thinks BYU or Bronco would even care what he thinks--"even though we disagree.". What?? Is he a major stock holder in BYU?? Does he represent some voice in the community and deserves serious consideration of his Vai views or else we'll take "that community" elsewhere?!

The point about Daniel is great within its context and Elder Holland's, of course; BYU fans have to get better and it was an embarrassment the way he was treated; and to the degree that ute and byu fans need to be more civil.

But who is he kidding? Does he think the Utes read the DesNews????? What does that leave....yep, preaching to the choir--the only ones listening or care to listen. maybe he knew that. I venture a bet that he did. That, or he thinks he is so important that he thout his article would be spread around the radio and other media. I can't tell.

bostoncoug wrote:
It was Daniel Bobik.

This. Definitely This. BTW - Daniel Bobick was from Ventura County - Newberry Park, where I lived briefly. Newberry Park is considered part of Thousand Oaks where Ben Olsen lived if you are wondering where that is. Too bad how both of those things worked out. I was there in an apartment until I got my house in Moorpark where my son attended high school with Dennis Pitta - although they were not friends - not claiming any connection there. This went better for players from that area. I met them all at one point or another. My son-in-law played on the same Thousand Oaks team as Ben Olsen.



I always pull for players from where I live and teams where I live so I was disappointed to the Max when two of these BYU recruits flamed out. Both should have been more patient IMHO - like Pitta was.

Stirfry wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was Chris Burgess but I'm not positive. I thought he eventually left (was it Duke) and came to the U and the fans were relentless when we played. I'm not sure how it would have been in the Delta Center though. (we should be all cheering Burgess now triggering the events that brought Clevland and Dave Rose to town)



I think Urban Meyer caused the hate as much as anyone. Roni Mac and La'vell did such a good job and bridging the divide I don't see it coming from him and though Kyle does nothing to temper it I don't hear about him encouraging it the way Meyer did. It might be just because Utah became so competitve with Meyer but he seemed to have really embraced the hate.



Monson would be 2nd for me. That guys career is based on making people angry.

I also met Burgess. He was from Irvine. I worked in Irvine at the time and lived 20-30 minutes awayvdepending on traffic. I was at his press conference - which turned out to be an embarrassing flop for his familyvwhovstalled the crowd for a long time waiting for more media to show up - only to have more media not show up. You could see the Duke thing coming by the way the mom was dressed and working the crowd. It all seemed about status. Huge audible sigh of disappointment when he put on The Duke Hat. Nobody from Duke seemed to be there - official - or even fans.



I have to admit - that when he picked Duke and Bobick transferred, and Ben Olsen transferred - I quit pulling for them. No hate. But, no support. And I did enjoy a little I Told You So sentiment.



They all should have been patient.

Cougarbib wrote:

It was Daniel Bobik.

This. Definitely This. BTW - Daniel Bobick was from Ventura County - Newberry Park, where I lived briefly. Newberry Park is considered part of Thousand Oaks where Ben Olsen lived if you are wondering where that is. Too bad how both of those things worked out. I was there in an apartment until I got my house in Moorpark where my son attended high school with Dennis Pitta - although they were not friends - not claiming any connection there. This went better for players from that area. I met them all at one point or another. My son-in-law played on the same Thousand Oaks team as Ben Olsen.



I always pull for players from where I live and teams where I live so I was disappointed to the Max when two of these BYU recruits flamed out. Both should have been more patient IMHO - like Pitta was.

Friend of mine in college grew up with Bobik.



Bobik loved BYU. He just wanted to play hoops and wasn't going to get much time on the court given who was in front of him so transferred. No big deal. Similar to what Juice did this season.



Bobik shows up against BYU and he's enemy #1.



What does Bobik have to do with Utah vs. BYU? The sentiment that when it comes to sports, yelling profanities and launching personal attacks at others suddenly becomes okay. Apparently, sporting events are the exception to love and kindness. :skeptic:



If BYU fans were/are that rude to their own...what about the others...



And, fine, Vai may be using this to thumb his nose at BYU fans or somehow put him on higher ground than the rest of cougar fandom, but he's right nonetheless. We shouldn't check our religion at the door.

Hating any person is lame, regardless of the reason, especially a reason as trivial as sports.



With that said, it's perfectly fine to be disgusted by a person's actions or words. And Vai's not-so-subtle continuous denigration of BYU and Bronco is disgusting. I have no respect for his views. He seems to be easily offended and hold grudges based on race. Ignoring him is growing ever-easier.

Meh. I don't see it--I find it all good-natured fun. While I say I "hate" the U, I don't really hate anyone from the U.



I think Vai is just experiencing some blowback from the manner in which he has taken to embracing the U and eschewing Bronco as well as some cognitive dissonance for his newfound Utefandom, and he's trying to get everyone to sing kumbayahmahlawd so he and his ego can rest better.

tripwire wrote:
To claim that all the hate in this rivalry is the fault of Utah, or the media is ridiculous. There has been plenty of misbehavior on both sides over the years. Need I remind you about Max Hall's "I hate everything about them" comments? But I suppose that wasn't his fault right? Because he was somehow justified in saying what he said by the Utes themselves?

I don't buy it.

People need to chill and remember that it's just sports.When people make a football game into a personal thing against the opposite team then it's no longer fun.

As much as I want to beat the Utes I don't hold anything personal against any of them, and I don't hate them.

You need to wake up, pal.



Is it all Utah's fault? No, BYU fans haven't always been perfect or turned the other cheek. But there's no denying in which fan base the hate originated and where most of the ugliness comes from.



And what Max said was largely true and echoed what many of us wanted to say for a long time. Not to mention understandable considering the treatment his family received during the 2008 game.

I don't hate the U. I guess I pity them, really. Such a sad, shallow existence they must lead. But I've been a lone Cougar in RES, and I've seen a lone Ute at LES, and the difference in how each loner was treated is night and day.



I think it really started to get nasty in 1977, we sent Wilson back into the game late so he could set an NCAA record, and the coach at the time went nuts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_War_(Utah_vs._BYU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)#The_LaVell_Edwards_era

Of course, McBride upped the ante, mostly be actually being competive. Meyer upped it again by pure douchebaggery - although I get that second hand, since I was in Uruguay for the duration of his short stay here in Utah.



More than the coaches, though, I think the hate has really increased due to demographic changes in Utah and the U. SLC is becoming a lot less LDS, and so is the student body at Utah. And my impression is that there aren't a whole lot of people on the fence when it comes to the church in SLC - you love it, or you hate it, and all things associated with it. I think that's the main fuel on the rivalry hate fire. In contrast, I don't get a lot of hate from Aggies I know. It's fun, good-natured rivalry, even now that they've been competitive. Probably because Logan is WAY different than SLC.

KingCoug wrote:

To claim that all the hate in this rivalry is the fault of Utah, or the media is ridiculous. There has been plenty of misbehavior on both sides over the years. Need I remind you about Max Hall's "I hate everything about them" comments? But I suppose that wasn't his fault right? Because he was somehow justified in saying what he said by the Utes themselves?

I don't buy it.

People need to chill and remember that it's just sports.When people make a football game into a personal thing against the opposite team then it's no longer fun.

As much as I want to beat the Utes I don't hold anything personal against any of them, and I don't hate them.

You need to wake up, pal.



Is it all Utah's fault? No, BYU fans haven't always been perfect or turned the other cheek. But there's no denying in which fan base the hate originated and where most of the ugliness comes from.



And what Max said was largely true and echoed what many of us wanted to say for a long time. Not to mention understandable considering the treatment his family received during the 2008 game.

+1 I give Max a 100% pass due to what the fans did to his wife and mother after the 08 game. No BYU fan has ever attacked the wife and mother of a utah player in order to taunt them after a BYU win, it has never happened. Don't even start on the kwit wife thing. That was started by a ute who got offended that a BYU player was taking pics with his iphone and the ute took the iphone and threw it and a scuffle ensued in which kwit's wife got into the middle of and got hit. ONce again a ute fan started it.



I used to be one of these nice fans who wished the utes well except when they played BYU, I even rooted for them in the NCAA basketball finals. I had my change of heart during the Crowton years when BYU was down. The ute fans who called into the radio shows took more pride in BYU's failures than they did in thier own successes due to urban meyer. It completely changed my view, I lost all respect for the utes and their fans. They truely are classless from the fans in the stadium to the athletic dept who announces the Michigan series on the same day that BYU has their media day, to the coach who onside kicks while up by 40 points on an overmatched opponent.