Different expectations for Basketball and Football

Why does it seem we're doing better at getting "legacy" recruits in basketball than football?



Chatman, Nixon, Haws, Ainge.



Where are the football legacy players?

Spiff,



I think the best answer can be found in the different directions the football and basketball teams are headed, mostly in relation to the in-state rivalry with Utah, the coaches and consistent play on the big stage.



In football, most logical/reasonable fans would have to concede that the U has had a much better last 8 years than us. Last year was a great opportunity to even things back up, but the spanking we took put us even greater in the hole. We are underdogs this year and playing up on the hill, and if we lose again to the U, it would be un-debatable which program is top dog in the state. Add Utah leaving BYU for the Pac-12 and causing the break in the rivalry and it is obvious who has more control and which team is more stable. I am not saying that we can;t right the ship, but we need to beat Utah and we need to make some noise on a national level, preferably getting invited to and winning a BCS bowl game.



In basketball, BYU has dominated the Utes for years and the Utes program is in shambles. I am amazed Loveridge committed to them over BYU, but regardless, there seems to be no end in sight for BYU's continued domination of the U and continued respect on a national level. Jimmermania also helped, as big name recruits have seen what can be done while playing for BYU (hopefully Parker noticed!). Utah St. is by far much better than the U, but even so, Utah St is located in Logan, and who wants to be in winter for 8 months of the year.



Coach Mendenhall, in my opinion, is too much GA and not enough football coach and I think some recruits sense that. On the other hand, Coach Rose is definitely a head coach first. There seems to be less grief for basketball players who don't go on missions versus football players. I am a huge Coach Rose fan and although I do think Coach Mendenhall is a decent coach, I don't think he is as effective in his role as Coach Rose is in his.



Finally, BYU's team has lived up to or surpassed expectations almost every year since he was hired. If Davies did not get suspended, BYU could have had a very real chance at winning it all (there is no arguing this if you actually watched the finals that year). Even so, we barely lost in overtime in the sweet 16. Last year met expectations and the come back win was amazing! We win almost all the games we are supposed to win and a few that we weren't. We rarely get blown out and the team looks like they have fun.



Our football team has lacked passion and a killer instinct, has really struggled the last two years for an identity, has dropped a notch in the state rankings and hasn't had a dominating win against a decent team in what seems like a long time. They also have been boring to watch.



If I am a basketball recruit, I am choosing BYU if I am active LDS, and probably some other school out of the state if I am not active LDS. But in football, I'd highly consider the U either way, and would only choose BYU if I was active LDS planning on a mission, had no NFL dreams, and had no real problems with honor code issues. Right now in my life, I would have to highly consider the U.



As much as I hate the U, I am starting to realize why players are choosing the U over the Y. Hopefully Bronco does something this year to change the tide.

I'm not seeing the same number of legacy football players. Are there just fewer good legacy football players?

The reason for no legacy football players is there are alot of players on the football team so alot get overlooked.

YEah, I don't buy that utah has an edge and therefore BYU aren't getting legacy football players. I haven't seen too many legacy football players turn down BYU, much less to go to utah. A couple, but it's minimal.



I agree that there are quite a few legacy players who simply get buried on the depth chart at BYU, harder to recognize them.



In any case, I'm way excited for D. Nixon to be sporting BYU blue. BYU's going to be competitive for years to come.

Just saying, if I am a highly sought after legacy recruit, it would be a much easier decision to choose BYU for Basketball than BYU for football, and there are several reasons why.

jacksonman wrote:
Just saying, if I am a highly sought after legacy recruit, it would be a much easier decision to choose BYU for Basketball than BYU for football, and there are several reasons why.

Are you kidding? If I was highly sought after there's no question where I would go. :evil:



I knew a kid who could have played baseball at a few different schools who's dad played at BYU and in the bigs. He decided to walk on to BYU's BASEBALL team.

I think there must be other variables involved. Such as generational attrition occurring more often in football. Just wondering. Football has a higher incidence rate of severe, life altering injuries than bball, Namely, concussions. So, it owls make sense that fewer football players as parents encourage their children to go into football. They know the toll it takes on the body.

Although consider the following families with recent 2nd generations or siblings at BYU football: Collie, pendleton, Reynolds, Kuresa, and probably others. We missed on Biegel, but how many other legacy football 2nd geners have we missed out on? I can't think of many.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Why does it seem we're doing better at getting "legacy" recruits in basketball than football?



Chatman, Nixon, Haws, Ainge.



Where are the football legacy players?

Why? Because Rose is a better coach and recruiter than Bronco. Rose has BYU actually playing on a national level rather than talking about it and coming up with catching slogans that don't mean what they imply.

BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU fans generally have for the basketball team are way lower than for Football.



In basketball



Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.

BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.

Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker

Or if D. Harrison transfers.



If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy

I

We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach



Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU have for the basketball team are way lower than for basketball.



In basketball



Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.

BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.

Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker

Or if D. Harrison transfers.



If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy



We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach



Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry



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There was a thread about this last year. And I agree with cougarbib2. There is a double standard at BYU between football and basketball. I don't envy Bronco.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU have for the basketball team are way lower than for basketball.



In basketball



Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.

BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.

Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker

Or if D. Harrison transfers.



If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy



We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach



Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry



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Hmm...I'll bite.



In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.



In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.



Looking a bit further at basketball, 68 teams make it to the NCAA tournament. That's only 19% of schools. BYU basketball has gone to the NCAA tournament every year since 2007. Every year, in the last half decade BYU basketball has played on a national level and among the top 20% of the sport with more success than football has.



BYU basketball is improving its post-season performance. We're going places in basketball. Whereas in football, what's the biggest bowl we've played in since 2007...the Las Vegas Bowl...against a 4th place Pac10 team.



In one season, now many ranked teams does football play against? 1 on average; 2 isn't uncommon; 3 is rare. Yes, there are less games, but there are also less teams.



In basketball, it isn't uncommon for BYU to play 3+ ranked teams in a season. That would mean Rose has BYU playing teams within the top 7% of the sport, semi-regularly. Applying that same standard to football, Bronco would have to play teams ranked at least in the Top 8 every season.



Football has no conference championship to play for, so I really don't get that argument.



Basketball still has a conference championship to play for and will be competing for it despite not being "favored" to win. Before football left the MWC, we didn't win the conference championship. Again, football is regressing or at best plateauing.



Assuming NCAA football moved to a tournament system similar to basketball with at most 16 teams making it in (haven't heard talks of any more). That would mean BYU football would have to be in the top 13% of teams - Top 15. Do you honestly think Bronco will have us within the Top 15 anytime soon and there regularly? Maybe once every 5 years or so when the stars align. 10 - 2 seasons won't get us there, not with our schedules.



By contrast, top 13% in basketball lands within the Top 50. BYU under Rose has always been a Top 50 team.



Again, there is no double standard. Basketball is quietly outperforming football. Only thing I don't get is why basketball takes the back seat to football as BYU clearly does better than football in that sport.

Thank you Gunk. Couldn't have said it better. Sure BYU Basketball under performs on occasion, but they have also over-performed just as regularly. In addition, basketball recruiting has taken it up a notch and seems to get better every year, while football seems to be losing out more and more to recruits that were ours to lose or we at least had a very good shot at getting.



It would be an easy decision for me to play bball at the Y, but I would have to seriously consider the U or a more local school if I were a football player. Thankfully I wasn't in that position. :D

What exactly do you propose is the football equivalent of bouncing out of the tournament in the first or second game every year? To me it's the equivalent of going 10+ wins every year in football, so in my mind the two programs are pretty much exactly on par.

It really makes no difference to me that there are 200 extra cupcake schools in basketball. If you consider FCS schools for football, since they're also technically Div-I, BYU football outperforms BYU basketball.

Gunk wrote:

In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.



In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.

So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?

SpoCoug wrote:

In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.



In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.

So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?

Sheer numbers don't matter here. Of the 345 D1 teams, only around 119 even matter.

BroncoBot wrote:

Gunk wrote:

In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.



In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.

So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?

Sheer numbers don't matter here. Of the 345 D1 teams, only around 119 even matter.

And how many D1 football teams even matter? Far less than 119. Probably only around 50 at best.