Paul Ryan

So do you like the guy?



The more I read about him, the more I like him. Seems like he introduces brand new attack lines from Obama, but it really didn't matter who the VP was for that to happen.



Seems like he's energize mitt, brought new ideas to a star power advisoree team. I think he'll make an excellent Vice president.



If there's one problem, it's that he doesn't necessarily help Mitt win the election like Portman or Rubio might have done with Ohio/Fl. yes he helps a bit with Wisconsin but that's not quite as big of a prize.

He does have some problematic votes (TARP, auto bailouts, Medicare Part D, etc). But it does seem like he had a "come-to Jesus" moment when he decided to get serious about fiscal responsibility.



I like the pick. It's going to make it very hard to bring the conversation away from debts, budgets, spending, taxes and the economy.



He does seem to have energized Mitt. There was a lot of concern a week ago that Mitt wasn't doing enough. It now looks like he was really just focusing on picking his running mate. And that it is done, he is in full campaign mode.



I think they can keep the administration scrambling - like they have been the last week - for a good long time. The debates are going to be very important.

I hate it.



Takes him off of a crucial spot on the Budget committee. Likely cedes Florida to Obama because Ryan proposed changes to Medicare (despite not affecting seniors--do you realy expect that seniors will understand the nuance of Ryan's plan with all the media and Obama ads failing to mention it?) while perhaps delivering Wisconsin. Gives the Dems plenty of fodder to run negative ads from here to November.



It also dilutes Romney's argument that he's the guy for the job because he's been in the private sector his whole life so he knows what needs to be done. He's now hired a consummate DC insider as his #2.



Romney needed to go with a governor or someone else from outside of Congress for the #2. All he's done know is energize the GOP base, but at the expense of giving the Dems plenty of fodder to go after the independents Romney needs to win this thing. Now the Dems can point to GOP gamesmanship in Congress to stymie Obama and blame it, and the economic woes on the GOP in Congress-->Paul Ryan-->Mitt Romney.



This is just another Sarah Palin pick, but without the stylish glasses and ta-tas.

Hey Sno - back off Mister! I like "ta-ta's" :bug: :whistle:

Ddawg wrote:
Hey Sno - back off Mister! I like "ta-ta's" :bug: :whistle:

So you're excited that Chris Christie is giving the GOP keynote?

I think Americans are ready for a grown-up discussion about the benefits and entitlements that we simply can't afford. People aren't going to get all their promised benefits.



I think Americans are ready for real leadership and some straight talk about the tough choices we're going to have to make and the sacrifices that are going be necessary to keep our society alive

I get the Medicare problem, but it's a REAL easy message that Ryan's plan affects 0 seniors on medicare.



Isn't it also an easy message that Obamacare takes 700B out of medicare?

CougarClaw wrote:
I get the Medicare problem, but it's a REAL easy message that Ryan's plan affects 0 seniors on medicare.



Isn't it also an easy message that Obamacare takes 700B out of medicare?

Yeah, it's an easy message, but that doesn't mean it sticks or that people buy into it. All Obama has to do is keep repeating "I extended Medicare 10 years, Romney and Ryan want to end Medicare as we know it." The statement is facially true, and it makes Romney/Ryan look weaker in having to explain the nuances.



If the message was easy and it got through the cloud of fear that accompanies entitlements, the point would have been made long before Ryan got into the race.



The problem with most GOP supporters is that they think everyone else dismisses what the other side says as easily as they do. The true independents and undecideds view both sides with equal skepticism and distrust. That makes even simple messages difficult to stick when there is so much noise from the other side.

snoscythe wrote:

I get the Medicare problem, but it's a REAL easy message that Ryan's plan affects 0 seniors on medicare.



Isn't it also an easy message that Obamacare takes 700B out of medicare?

Yeah, it's an easy message, but that doesn't mean it sticks or that people buy into it. All Obama has to do is keep repeating "I extended Medicare 10 years, Romney and Ryan want to end Medicare as we know it." The statement is facially true, and it makes Romney/Ryan look weaker in having to explain the nuances.



If the message was easy and it got through the cloud of fear that accompanies entitlements, the point would have been made long before Ryan got into the race.



The problem with most GOP supporters is that they think everyone else dismisses what the other side says as easily as they do. The true independents and undecideds view both sides with equal skepticism and distrust. That makes even simple messages difficult to stick when there is so much noise from the other side.

I don't think that Obama's attempts at twisting this are going to have staying power like they normally would. He is just too far off from the truth and the backlash is greater than he expected. The more the topic comes up the better it makes Romney and Ryan look and the worse Obama looks. Heck, even my mother gets it and she is on a strict diet of liberal media. Obama is not Bill "slick willy" Clinton.



Trying to tag Ryan as a DC insider is a stretch. Just because he has served in DC does not make him an insider especially when he has clearly stood against the DC establishment. Independents like Ryan because he is much easier to trust.



Ryan is a better choice than most of the other options because the others, like say Rubio or Rice, would have looked contrived to pander to racial segments of the vote. Ryan helps cement the focus on the economy which is where it needs to be. Ryan has much more depth and ability to persuade than does Palin.



We will see a much more broad cross-section of actual voters connecting with Romney-Ryan. This is a serious leadership team to fix America not a pandering trick and that is what most voters will see.

Obama hasn't extended Medicare 10 years. His response to it going insolvent in 12 years isn't to address the problem, it's to take nearly 3/4 of a trillion dollars to pay for a different health benefit.

tww wrote:
Ryan helps cement the focus on the economy which is where it needs to be. Ryan has much more depth and ability to persuade than does Palin.

Palin? Lol. Not much of a comparison.



A heap of rocks would make a more attractive VP. Cold fusion is more likely than Palin making a good decision, the plot of Starship Troopers made more sense than Palin, I'd rather watch Tremors on repeat than listen to her speak. She was such a disaster of a pick on virtually every possible level...and yes. even Joe Biden, is a better VP than Sarah Palin would have been.

The Palin pick made sense. McCain had to take a huge chance that something, anything could be done to shake up the race. McCain was a losing candidate who never stood a chance. The tidal wave that was Obama in 2008 was unbeatable. He was the "perfect" candidate at the "perfect" moment. The GOP was losing that election no matter whom they nominated. I'm not even sure Ronald Reagan with George Washington as his running mate could have won in 2008.



Palin was a long shot to change the race, but McCain only had that long shot to do it.

I'm not saying she's a great candidate, but Palin didn't get a fair shake at all. She was crucified by the Chicago-style political machine through the media. She's not dumb, she's not lazy, she's not a bad person, she does have integrity and know about what she governed, but you'd never know that by listening to the "party of women" tear her a new one. It was disgraceful the way she was treated by the left.

snoscythe wrote:

Hey Sno - back off Mister! I like "ta-ta's" :bug: :whistle:

So you're excited that Chris Christie is giving the GOP keynote?

:lol: :lol: That's gotta be the "Post of the Day." :lol: :lol:



You know Fokker - you can milk anything that has nipples.



Can Christie be milked? :lol: :whistle: ;)

Ddawg wrote:

Ddawg wrote:
Hey Sno - back off Mister! I like "ta-ta's" :bug: :whistle:

So you're excited that Chris Christie is giving the GOP keynote?

:lol: :lol: That's gotta be the "Post of the Day." :lol: :lol:



You know Fokker - you can milk anything that has nipples.



Can Christie be milked? :lol: :whistle: ;)

Yes, but the product is so fatty they say he can be "half-and-halfed" :crazy: :evil:

tww wrote:
I don't think that Obama's attempts at twisting this are going to have staying power like they normally would. He is just too far off from the truth and the backlash is greater than he expected. The more the topic comes up the better it makes Romney and Ryan look and the worse Obama looks. Heck, even my mother gets it and she is on a strict diet of liberal media. Obama is not Bill "slick willy" Clinton.

As the incumbent, all Obama has to do is prevent the alternative from sticking and steer the conversation to petty things rather than on the economy. He's been pretty damn successful at that. He hasn't even touched Stericycle yet, which is looking to be a planned October surprise.

Trying to tag Ryan as a DC insider is a stretch. Just because he has served in DC does not make him an insider especially when he has clearly stood against the DC establishment. Independents like Ryan because he is much easier to trust.

I take it you haven't looked at Ryan's pre-Obama voting record yet? Because it's not pretty for someone who talks a limited-government/shrink-the-deficit-line. He didn't just vote for TARP, he stood on the floor and implored other Republicans to do the same: "Madame Speaker, this bill offends my principles. But I’m going to vote for this bill in order to preserve my principles." That doesn't look like someone who "clearly stood against the DC establishment." He didn't start doing that until he had an incumbent to try and unseat. He's been a consummate insider in DC. All you have to do is look at what he did under Bush and look at his stock trading records in conjunction with the closed-door hearings he sat on. The last two years of gamesmanship against Obama doesn't suddenly make Ryan anti-establishment. It just makes him anti-Obama.

Ryan is a better choice than most of the other options because the others, like say Rubio or Rice, would have looked contrived to pander to racial segments of the vote. Ryan helps cement the focus on the economy which is where it needs to be. Ryan has much more depth and ability to persuade than does Palin.

I already said Rubio was DOA. I think Rice has enough respect to get past the idea of a pandering choice. Your argument ignores Pawlenty, Portman, Jindal or Christie who each would have been, in my view, equivalent selections--Portman and Pawlenty would have been markedly better.

We will see a much more broad cross-section of actual voters connecting with Romney-Ryan. This is a serious leadership team to fix America not a pandering trick and that is what most voters will see.

I think it was a pandering trick--pandering to the GOP base and trying to use the Ryan budget as a quick distraction from the tax return/Bain debate Romney has been unable to shrug off. I think Ryan has the skills for the ticket, but I think his history in the beltway outweighs the positives he brings to the ticket.

Sno, you may very well be right. If I am wrong and you are right I will gladly acknowledge your superiority. Let me say too that I am not necessarily speaking about what I think is best but from the perspective of an analyst looking for the best team to beat Obama.



I am not sure that Christie was ever really on the table and the rest we may never know what might have been. Personally I like Rice mostly because I like to watch her run intellectual circles around liberals.



I like what I see so far in the match-up of Romney/Ryan v. Obama/Biden. I really think Obama/Biden is going to go too far for the independence and many democrats. I think Romney/Ryan is going to connect more and more.



I do have a question for you. You said that the Ryan move was pandering to conservatives but at the same time you seem to suggest that Ryan is not conservative enough. Is that right?



Hmmm? Pandering to conservatives? I am still trying to let that soak in. That is a whole new animal for me.



Heck I don't understand how anyone that is not a conservative and yet takes an oath to uphold the constitution doesn't get charged with perjury.

Ryan was pretty much a GOP vote in the House until they lost the House in the 2006 mid-term elections when he had, essentially, a change of heart. I need to find the article that talked about, but Ryan was at home hunting after the election and decided what he wanted to do in Congress. He decided that he wanted to change and begin to take on the biggest issue facing the country - the deficit.



He got the Speaker of the House to appoint him, during the lame-duck session, the senior GOPer on the budget committee. He was able to convince the Speaker to do this above 13 more senior Representatives. Ryan wanted to be in a position that if the GOP ever retook the House, he as the then committee chairman could control the types of budgets that made it to the House floor.



Ryan made some bad votes - votes that cost other Republicans their seats (like Sen. Bob Bennett). TARP, the auto bailouts and Medicare Part D. These were huge government expenditures that should not have been made.



Ryan hopefully, like Mitt, will govern like he is campaigning.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Ryan was pretty much a GOP vote in the House until they lost the House in the 2006 mid-term elections when he had, essentially, a change of heart. I need to find the article that talked about, but Ryan was at home hunting after the election and decided what he wanted to do in Congress. He decided that he wanted to change and begin to take on the biggest issue facing the country - the deficit.



He got the Speaker of the House to appoint him, during the lame-duck session, the senior GOPer on the budget committee. He was able to convince the Speaker to do this above 13 more senior Representatives. Ryan wanted to be in a position that if the GOP ever retook the House, he as the then committee chairman could control the types of budgets that made it to the House floor.



Ryan made some bad votes - votes that cost other Republicans their seats (like Sen. Bob Bennett). TARP, the auto bailouts and Medicare Part D. These were huge government expenditures that should not have been made.



Ryan hopefully, like Mitt, will govern like he is campaigning.

Hope and Change. Beautiful ideas, right? :P



Paul like Mitt does not impress me. I have absolutely no faith in them and their changing ways. Unfortunately, out of default they get my vote. I'd love to see them prove it on the field. We'll see I suppose. First they have to beat Obama which is still a huge task for them.



Here's what I EXPECT to see. Mitt and Paul say all the right things (although, Mitt's had his moments of honesty when he will reveal he still is not a fiscal conservative), they win the election. Suddenly, they "realize" what kind of baggage that Obama left them and they will be pushing to continue bailouts, entitlements, and loans to giant corporations in order to "save" this country. Again, we'll see. This election is suddenly very boring to me.

After last night, I have now watched Portman, Pawlenty, Rice, and Ryan all speak at the RNC. I have to say that based on that limited sample set, I think Romney made the right choice. Rice was an abject disappointment to me in her delivery--though her remarks were substantively moving, her delivery obfuscated what she was saying and it lost all power.



As a side note--Rick Santorum came into this convention thinking he would take the mantle as the runner-up to be first in line for a 2016 nomination, and he gave the most douchebaglike self-involved speech I have heard since the 2008 DNC. His eyes closed in passion trying to force a 5 minute hands metaphor was painful. Paul Ryan absolutely ripped that mantle from Santorum's hands last night by putting verbosity aside and addressing issues and fixes. I think Ryan is the face of the future of the GOP. I'm sorry I knocked him so much early on.