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Hitting in Practice, Team preparation and Identity

by jonnylingo · 8/10/2012

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jonnylingo
So last year one criticism floating around the past two years is that it has taken half the season before our team gets an "identity." One reason cited for that is that Bronco's practices are too light on hitting. The argument is that the lack of real time hitting and action makes it harder to accurately determine the teams strengths and weaknesses. Also those positions where people are competing it becomes harder for the athlete that will be better in games to prove himself and separate himself.



Today on the radio I heard Gunther say that he has never seen a football practice with so little hitting as he did today. He said compared to utah where they are hitting the crap out of each other it was stark in contrast.



I have to be honest and say this bugs me a little bit. I understand the fear of injury but it seems to me for a team to really find their identity and for players fighting for playing time you really need those reps of real hitting in real time play to know who is going to be better in a game and for a team to identify their strengths and weaknesses. There is certainly a cost, injuries, but the trade off seems to be worth it to me.



It is no secret that Bronco's teams start the season out slowly. I buy into the fact that this is part of the problem or reason why. I feel like our team would be more prepared going into the season if they worried less about injuries and more about getting guys ready and establishing an identity and starters before the season starts instead of 2 to 6 games into the season. More hitting and live reps I think would benefit the team.



I hesitate to even make this comment given Bronco is certainly a better judge of what the teams needs than me, but from afar this whole idea has been bugging me.
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Schmoe
There was plenty of hitting and full-contact (QBs excluded) in the scrimmage today. I know it's a rivalry, but really who cares what the pukes are doing up north? We've finished ranked more than they have under our current head coaches, and we're going to beat them this year.
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scott715
Maybe we should play 3 exhibition games before the season starts.
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SpiffCoug
Has tackling been an issue with the defense? Only when they quit (a la Utah 2011).



Has being soft been an issue with the offense? Only when we had a QB shy away from contact in 2011.



BYU started the season soft last year because of its on the field leader. Once the team's real leader played, this wasn't an issue.



Gunther doesn't no anything. You don't have to hit to prepare to play football. Tom Holmoe said that Bill Walsh rarely had his 49ers teams hitting during practice and they won a couple of Super Bowls.



Hitting during practice is overrated.
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Lawboy
I find the comments by Gunther odd. Personally, I think it was radio trolling. Bronco ran a 76 play scrimmage, full pads, full hitting. Only players off limits were the QBs. This on he first day with full pads. In years past, he ran maybe 40 plays. This time, 10 series, 76 plays. Huge upgrade. I think we will see more of it as well.



ALso, Bronco will be running at least 2 other scrimmages, and I bet one of them will be 100 plays or more while implementing wrinkles to the offense and defense when no fans and media are around.



Thing is, Bronco visited several NFL teams this past year with the staff and practices have been modified to conform to practices used by NFL teams. They did not just talk scheme, but practice techniques. BYU is going more uptempo, which was noticeable, but also with more live reps. I think today's scrimmage was the most live reps for a spring or fall scrimmage under Bronco.



I think BYU is hitting more this year than in seasons past, and will continue to do so. No way will he "think" that the O is ready like he did last year. This year, he is going to test them, let them go more and see it.



AS to Gunther, honestly, screw him. HE talked about how Utah looked bigger and more physical. I think the dude saw what he wanted to see. BYUs Oline averages 6-5 305 right now, which is plenty big. The Backers are big, the secondary has good size and speed, and the Dline is big enough. Perhaps Utah has a bigger D line, but that is it.
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SpiffCoug
Lawboy wrote:
I find the comments by Gunther odd. Personally, I think it was radio trolling. Bronco ran a 76 play scrimmage, full pads, full hitting. Only players off limits were the QBs. This on he first day with full pads. In years past, he ran maybe 40 plays. This time, 10 series, 76 plays. Huge upgrade. I think we will see more of it as well.



ALso, Bronco will be running at least 2 other scrimmages, and I bet one of them will be 100 plays or more while implementing wrinkles to the offense and defense when no fans and media are around.

^^^ THIS ^^^



I was somewhat amazed that at the sheer number of plays run in the scrimamge.
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jonnylingo
SpiffCoug wrote:



BYU started the season soft last year because of its on the field leader. Once the team's real leader played, this wasn't an issue.




That is a convenient scape goat. That doesn't explain the slow starts in other years. You put too much blame on heaps.
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BroncoBot
jonnylingo wrote:



BYU started the season soft last year because of its on the field leader. Once the team's real leader played, this wasn't an issue.




That is a convenient scape goat. That doesn't explain the slow starts in other years. You put too much blame on heaps.

well... It could explain at least 2 years.

2011. Heaps

2010. 2qb committee (heaps), and the team just wasn't that great

2009. Ranked OU team in Dallas, FSU game at home= slow start.

2008. Not a slow start

2007. New QB.

2006. Slow start.

2005. Rebuilding season...



Of the years Bronco has coached, there were 2 season (06, 09) where I believe BYU should have been playing better at the beginning of the season. The rest had at the very least a reasonable explanation.



You're right though Heaps is a convenient scapegoat for 2 years. We'll see how this year goes.
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byucougar1
For better or worse, the BYU QB is the face of the team, and he team takes on his identity. Doman has reflected upon last year and noted the dramatic difference in team response to leadeship style as witnessed at USU game. It was the turning point in the season and team rallied around change. Expect even greater improvement this year with change in culture and attitude.



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Cougarbib
BroncoBot wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:



BYU started the season soft last year because of its on the field leader. Once the team's real leader played, this wasn't an issue.




That is a convenient scape goat. That doesn't explain the slow starts in other years. You put too much blame on heaps.

well... It could explain at least 2 years.

2011. Heaps

2010. 2qb committee (heaps), and the team just wasn't that great

2009. Ranked OU team in Dallas, FSU game at home= slow start.

2008. Not a slow start

2007. New QB.

2006. Slow start.

2005. Rebuilding season...



Of the years Bronco has coached, there were 2 season (06, 09) where I believe BYU should have been playing better at the beginning of the season. The rest had at the very least a reasonable explanation.



You're right though Heaps is a convenient scapegoat for 2 years. We'll see how this year goes.


My favorite scapegoat is schedule. You play Weber State, Eastern Washington, Northern Whatever at home - fast start.



2009 - sheesh play Oklahoma on a field that is not really neutral and then FSU at home - stuff happens. .500 most likely every time or worse.



This is not a Bronco issue. Scheduling issue.



Lay out opponent - site - result of the first three games each year and you will see a strong correlation with very few exceptions - even under Lavell.



Skip the Crowton years when BYU was just consistently bad if you want - but even there I would expect to see some relationship.



Take Detmer's senior- defending Heisman Champion season - 0-3 start. Was that a slow start or stupid scheduling?



For 2012, BYU has scheduled a probable 2-0 start that will slide to 2-2 after game 4. We have scheduled such that the risk of getting upset - Washington State - is real - could happen - thus 1-3 could happen. BYU, conversely, could catch lightening in a bottle and be 4-0. Much less likely.



We probably have scheduled a 2-2 start. If not that, 1-3 is slightly more likely than 3-1 and 0-4 is not at all likely and 4-0 is a huge stretch of the imagination.



Since the outcome is so clearly known - maybe they should cancel all of the regular season games, award us 8-4 and hope for a Bowl Win.



Or we can enjoy watching our team try to win every game 1 at a time.



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Stirfry
SpiffCoug wrote:
I find the comments by Gunther odd. Personally, I think it was radio trolling. Bronco ran a 76 play scrimmage, full pads, full hitting. Only players off limits were the QBs. This on he first day with full pads. In years past, he ran maybe 40 plays. This time, 10 series, 76 plays. Huge upgrade. I think we will see more of it as well.



ALso, Bronco will be running at least 2 other scrimmages, and I bet one of them will be 100 plays or more while implementing wrinkles to the offense and defense when no fans and media are around.

^^^ THIS ^^^



I was somewhat amazed that at the sheer number of plays run in the scrimamge.


Glad to hear that there was full hitting although the contrast between what Gunther was saying and this thread is odd. Just listening to him I would have thought they were playing one hand touch yesterday.



He seems to be pretty fair with BYU and I was listening yesterday to him and he fell right off the wagon to tired media line that Utah has past BYU by and the teams aren't even on the same level. He said some of the players yesterday wouldn't be playing on any other D1 team in the nation. Really Gunther? He even seemed like he was trying to hold back.
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Schmoe
Stirfry wrote:
He said some of the players yesterday wouldn't be playing on any other D1 team in the nation. He even seemed like he was trying to hold back.


As soon as you heard this, you should have known to stop listening and forget everything you heard. How absolutely absurd. The scrimmage was a good one, young players showcased some real talent, and we got a ton of plays in.
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jonnylingo
Stirfry wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
I find the comments by Gunther odd. Personally, I think it was radio trolling. Bronco ran a 76 play scrimmage, full pads, full hitting. Only players off limits were the QBs. This on he first day with full pads. In years past, he ran maybe 40 plays. This time, 10 series, 76 plays. Huge upgrade. I think we will see more of it as well.



ALso, Bronco will be running at least 2 other scrimmages, and I bet one of them will be 100 plays or more while implementing wrinkles to the offense and defense when no fans and media are around.

^^^ THIS ^^^



I was somewhat amazed that at the sheer number of plays run in the scrimamge.


Glad to hear that there was full hitting although the contrast between what Gunther was saying and this thread is odd. Just listening to him I would have thought they were playing one hand touch yesterday.



He seems to be pretty fair with BYU and I was listening yesterday to him and he fell right off the wagon to tired media line that Utah has past BYU by and the teams aren't even on the same level. He said some of the players yesterday wouldn't be playing on any other D1 team in the nation. Really Gunther? He even seemed like he was trying to hold back.


In terms of the hitting i believe he was referring to like an hour long practice before the scrimmage where there was no hitting.
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Lawboy
PRactice started at 10. They ran teams drills first for about 90 minutes. Scrimmage lasted about 75 minutes, so practice was 2:45. Contrast this to spring, and Fall last year where drills were an hour, scrimmage maybe 40 minutes.



As to less hitting in the beginning, it was positional drills. And as each unit pretty much broke off into separate groups and ran agility drills, defensive drills, positional skill mastery, etc, no hitting was really required. It was about mastery of technique and positional, which we all know Bronco was high on. The full on hitting came in the scrimmage when they went live. And it was physical, and much longer than in years past.



Gunther can be funny, but combined with Graham now, the anti-BYU sentiment is huge. They are an awfue combo. Before, Gunther had Jan to at least spar with. Now, all he and Graham do is kiss Whit's yewt and basically talk down BYU. I have given them a few listens, and it is the same every time. THey don;t even try to see any positives with BYU. Utah is the next USC, and BYU sucks and can never compete. Worst afternoon drive team in the market now because they lack balance.
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Guest
Sounds to me like Gunther was hit too many times in the head. Anyone who thinks that a practice is defined by the number of hits a player takes is a moron. Position mastery is all about learning where and when players need to be in position and the skills necessary to be in those positions. Sometimes hitting helps and sometimes hitting detracts. A good coach will know when to use each in his bag of tools.
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M
Mars
IMO, practice how you play. Practice hard, practice tough, play hard, play tough.



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M
Mars
P.S. Gunther did say that he thinks that BYU and Utah have very comparable Offenses. He just doesn't think that BYU has near the same depth on their defensive line.



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SpiffCoug
Mars wrote:
IMO, practice how you play. Practice hard, practice tough, play hard, play tough.



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I thought this is what BYU did yesterday. I didn't see anything easy or soft about yesterday's practice.
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Lawboy
Mars wrote:
P.S. Gunther did say that he thinks that BYU and Utah have very comparable Offenses. He just doesn't think that BYU has near the same depth on their defensive line.



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I agree with that. OUr Dline depth is probably not as good as Utah's. Just as our LB depth and talent is way better than theirs.



SPOILER--



Utah plays a 4-3 putting emphasis on Dline play.

BYU plays a 3-4 putting emphasis on LB play.



Crazy Gunther coudn't figure that out. Or at least acknowledge it.
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Mars
SpiffCoug wrote:
IMO, practice how you play. Practice hard, practice tough, play hard, play tough.
I thought this is what BYU did yesterday. I didn't see anything easy or soft about yesterday's practice.

The practice, or the scrimmage? No pads is a concern. No hitting is a concern. Practices don't seem to be as short as in the past, and no days have been taken off yet. But I am also concerned that starters are being held out of practice without cause, and that very minor injuries are keeping players out of already-no-contact drills. We will see if this results in another early blowout, as things have gone the past few years under Bronco.
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