NCAA penalizes Penn St. just short of death penalty

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



While not getting the death penalty, Penn St. had a pretty heavy hammer come down on it from the NCAA:



$60 Million fine

Vacate all wins from '98-'11

4 year bowl ban

20 scholarships lost per year for 4 years with 10 initially the first year.

5 years probation

Players free to transfer without penalty.



Joe Paterno's record will reflect the vacated wins, which drops him from 1st all time to 12th.



Discuss.

Umm...Congrats to Bobby Bowden?

Some pundits say that the penalty oversteps the bounds of the NCAA, and that penalties agaisnt the university should come from the legal system.



I think the NCAA did this right--the NCAA has to protect its role and commitment to promoting sports and all the good sports can do for young people. If Sandusky did his heinous acts without Paterno and other university officials covering up then this would not be appropriated. We have learned that cover-ups are worse than original offenses.



Penn State will not return to their former prominence anytime soon with the loss of that many scholarships. USC was able to rebound quicker than Penn State will be able to.

Ungoy wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998



While not getting the death penalty, Penn St. had a pretty heavy hammer come down on it from the NCAA:



...

20 scholarships lost per year for 4 years with 10 initially the first year.

...



Discuss.

I listened to the presser live on my drive today. I thought they said a reduction from 25 to 15 scholarships per year for 4 years. If they are really down to 5 per year, that's a much more severe penalty.

What can the Big 10 do that the NCAA did not?

HoosierCougar wrote:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998



While not getting the death penalty, Penn St. had a pretty heavy hammer come down on it from the NCAA:



...

20 scholarships lost per year for 4 years with 10 initially the first year.

...



Discuss.

I listened to the presser live on my drive today. I thought they said a reduction from 25 to 15 scholarships per year for 4 years. If they are really down to 5 per year, that's a much more severe penalty.

From what I understand its only 15 per year but they also have their max number of scholarships available reduced by 20 (from 85 to 65). So they lose 10 per year but they also have a lower max so if they don't have a lot of transfers out they may have even fewer scholarships for the next few years to stay under that 65 limit.

So the 65 scholarship cap, is that in place just during the probation period?

I think so. Also not sure if it starts this year or next year. But they do have to honor all scholarships of players that want to stay.

Seems pretty appropriate to me. What Sandusky did was illegal and heinous. What Joe Paterno and the administration did was cover up illegal acts to help the football program. Penn St. should have been proactive and done a self-imposed death penalty for 2 years.

The NCAA's new motto: "Protecting football is more important than protecting children."

hawkwing wrote:
Seems pretty appropriate to me. What Sandusky did was illegal and heinous. What Joe Paterno and the administration did was cover up illegal acts to help the football program. Penn St. should have been proactive and done a self-imposed death penalty for 2 years.

This.

northerncougar wrote:
The NCAA's new motto: "Protecting football is more important than protecting children."

I don't think that is the NCAA motto--definitely the Penn State motto for many years.

vancouvercougar wrote:

The NCAA's new motto: "Protecting football is more important than protecting children."

I don't think that is the NCAA motto--definitely the Penn State motto for many years.

That's the message that the NCAA is sending. "We can't give the death penalty here because, uh, well, it might be bad for Penn St. and other programs and businesses."



The NCAA is spineless when it comes to this. PSU accepted the Freeh report so they accept responsibility for what it says. PSU is saying that playing football is more important than protecting children. The NCAA is saying the same thing by not shutting down the program for at least a year.

northerncougar wrote:

northerncougar wrote:
The NCAA's new motto: "Protecting football is more important than protecting children."

I don't think that is the NCAA motto--definitely the Penn State motto for many years.

That's the message that the NCAA is sending. "We can't give the death penalty here because, uh, well, it might be bad for Penn St. and other programs and businesses."



The NCAA is spineless when it comes to this. PSU accepted the Freeh report so they accept responsibility for what it says. PSU is saying that playing football is more important than protecting children. The NCAA is saying the same thing by not shutting down the program for at least a year.

The NCAA realizes that there are hundreds of businesses that would be affected by completely shutting down PSU football. I'm not talking about ESPN or other huge companies. I'm talking about mom and pop type of businesses that receive the majority of their income from business related to football. You have small vendors that supply the stadium with food and other items, you have promotion companies, you have restaurants in the area that depend on game day traffic, etc.



The coaches and administrators associated with the scandal have been fired. None of the current players were associated with it. How does shutting down the football program punish anyone associated with the scandal? What the NCAA did is a very severe punishment and is unprecedented. They basically made it so the football program is shut down for 2+ years monetarily because they were fined the equivalent of one year's football revenue, but they still have to cover the expenses of playing a year of football without revenue. It will take years to make up the loss they are going to experience this coming year. Plus the team will not be good for a long time with the five years of scholarship restrictions and no bowl games for four years. However, they did this without destroying the local economy that depends on the football program.



The NCAA will never issue a death penalty again because they have learned how far the effects trickle down beyond the university. The main people that get hurt are the little guys not associated with whatever scandal the football team is punished with.

Schmoe wrote:
Umm...Congrats to Bobby Bowden?

Lavell Edwards should have coached a few more years - The Crowton Years.

Wickchad84087 wrote:

vancouvercougar wrote:

The NCAA's new motto: "Protecting football is more important than protecting children."

I don't think that is the NCAA motto--definitely the Penn State motto for many years.

That's the message that the NCAA is sending. "We can't give the death penalty here because, uh, well, it might be bad for Penn St. and other programs and businesses."



The NCAA is spineless when it comes to this. PSU accepted the Freeh report so they accept responsibility for what it says. PSU is saying that playing football is more important than protecting children. The NCAA is saying the same thing by not shutting down the program for at least a year.

The NCAA realizes that there are hundreds of businesses that would be affected by completely shutting down PSU football. I'm not talking about ESPN or other huge companies. I'm talking about mom and pop type of businesses that receive the majority of their income from business related to football. You have small vendors that supply the stadium with food and other items, you have promotion companies, you have restaurants in the area that depend on game day traffic, etc.



The coaches and administrators associated with the scandal have been fired. None of the current players were associated with it. How does shutting down the football program punish anyone associated with the scandal? What the NCAA did is a very severe punishment and is unprecedented. They basically made it so the football program is shut down for 2+ years monetarily because they were fined the equivalent of one year's football revenue, but they still have to cover the expenses of playing a year of football without revenue. It will take years to make up the loss they are going to experience this coming year. Plus the team will not be good for a long time with the five years of scholarship restrictions and no bowl games for four years. However, they did this without destroying the local economy that depends on the football program.



The NCAA will never issue a death penalty again because they have learned how far the effects trickle down beyond the university. The main people that get hurt are the little guys not associated with whatever scandal the football team is punished with.

This is an old and tired argument. Money is more important than the lives of children. That is the message being sent here.



BYU would shut down the football program for a small fraction of these issues. The "other people will be hurt" argument is silly and doesn't hold water. Yeah, it would suck for all of them. But they would move on to other things, just like everyone does when their business fails, or they get fired. This is the same thing.



The reality is that if the football program is so affected by this, as some people assert it will be, those businesses are going to be hurt just the same.



I'm not surprised that the NCAA is spineless and so is PSU. Just sad that it is so true.

northerncougar wrote:

The NCAA realizes that there are hundreds of businesses that would be affected by completely shutting down PSU football. I'm not talking about ESPN or other huge companies. I'm talking about mom and pop type of businesses that receive the majority of their income from business related to football. You have small vendors that supply the stadium with food and other items, you have promotion companies, you have restaurants in the area that depend on game day traffic, etc.



The coaches and administrators associated with the scandal have been fired. None of the current players were associated with it. How does shutting down the football program punish anyone associated with the scandal? What the NCAA did is a very severe punishment and is unprecedented. They basically made it so the football program is shut down for 2+ years monetarily because they were fined the equivalent of one year's football revenue, but they still have to cover the expenses of playing a year of football without revenue. It will take years to make up the loss they are going to experience this coming year. Plus the team will not be good for a long time with the five years of scholarship restrictions and no bowl games for four years. However, they did this without destroying the local economy that depends on the football program.



The NCAA will never issue a death penalty again because they have learned how far the effects trickle down beyond the university. The main people that get hurt are the little guys not associated with whatever scandal the football team is punished with.

This is an old and tired argument. Money is more important than the lives of children. That is the message being sent here.



BYU would shut down the football program for a small fraction of these issues. The "other people will be hurt" argument is silly and doesn't hold water. Yeah, it would suck for all of them. But they would move on to other things, just like everyone does when their business fails, or they get fired. This is the same thing.



The reality is that if the football program is so affected by this, as some people assert it will be, those businesses are going to be hurt just the same.



I'm not surprised that the NCAA is spineless and so is PSU. Just sad that it is so true.

You make it sound very simple for a small business owner to just hand the keys to their house over to their bank, have no money in the bank, and have mountains of debt. Not a problem. They can find another job. They can start another business, move on to the next thing. It would be very easy for them to get financing for the next business opportunity...



There would be a lot of children's lives affected by decimating a college town's economy. You are calling for a lot of collateral damage to other children by shutting down the football program.

Wickchad84087 wrote:

Wickchad84087 wrote:



The NCAA realizes that there are hundreds of businesses that would be affected by completely shutting down PSU football. I'm not talking about ESPN or other huge companies. I'm talking about mom and pop type of businesses that receive the majority of their income from business related to football. You have small vendors that supply the stadium with food and other items, you have promotion companies, you have restaurants in the area that depend on game day traffic, etc.



The coaches and administrators associated with the scandal have been fired. None of the current players were associated with it. How does shutting down the football program punish anyone associated with the scandal? What the NCAA did is a very severe punishment and is unprecedented. They basically made it so the football program is shut down for 2+ years monetarily because they were fined the equivalent of one year's football revenue, but they still have to cover the expenses of playing a year of football without revenue. It will take years to make up the loss they are going to experience this coming year. Plus the team will not be good for a long time with the five years of scholarship restrictions and no bowl games for four years. However, they did this without destroying the local economy that depends on the football program.



The NCAA will never issue a death penalty again because they have learned how far the effects trickle down beyond the university. The main people that get hurt are the little guys not associated with whatever scandal the football team is punished with.

This is an old and tired argument. Money is more important than the lives of children. That is the message being sent here.



BYU would shut down the football program for a small fraction of these issues. The "other people will be hurt" argument is silly and doesn't hold water. Yeah, it would suck for all of them. But they would move on to other things, just like everyone does when their business fails, or they get fired. This is the same thing.



The reality is that if the football program is so affected by this, as some people assert it will be, those businesses are going to be hurt just the same.



I'm not surprised that the NCAA is spineless and so is PSU. Just sad that it is so true.

You make it sound very simple for a small business owner to just hand the keys to their house over to their bank, have no money in the bank, and have mountains of debt. Not a problem. They can find another job. They can start another business, move on to the next thing. It would be very easy for them to get financing for the next business opportunity...



There would be a lot of children's lives affected by decimating a college town's economy. You are calling for a lot of collateral damage to other children by shutting down the football program.

So how many children's lives are worth a small business, large business, football program? 10 isn't enough? So, when we hit 20, do we then say, "Well, okay, 10, I was okay with, but 20 children is too much?"



I get completely how devastating it can be to lose a job, business, lively hood. In our capitalist society, we take a risk when we start a business or take a job. But too many of you sound like Obama, "Penn St. is too big to fail."

northerncougar wrote:
too many of you sound like Obama, "Penn St. is too big to fail."

Actually, that's a term the Republicans owned ever since the mid-80s all the way up to Bush II. Obama just kept running with it.

The thread title should be changed to "NCAA and Penn State Agree to Penalties Just Short of Death Penalty."



This was not a one-sided sanction--this is something PSU agreed to; you can go find the decree yourself and download the pdf. In short--the NCAA was able to bypass the lengthy due process requirements and PSU gave them permission to use the Freeh report, and I'm guessing in return PSU got to avoid the death penalty.



It's hard to argue with something both sides agree to, unless you're just looking for vengeance in the wrong place. The NCAA got to act swiftly and hand down punishment in response to public pressure without a protracted legal battle over whether they even could, and PSU got to rip the band-aid off to start moving past this. It should be noted that in any civil cases by victims against PSU, this NCAA sanction will probably be considered in evaluating any punitive damages, so in an ironic twist, the NCAA's action could, in the end, serve to redirect punitive damages from the actual victims and instead to the NCAA's direction. In that regard, the $60MM probably wasn't that hard to get PSU to agree to--they would likely be paying it out sooner or later, but this negotiated sanction let them have some control in the timing etc.