Howard Bryant of ESPN lumps the Mormon Church

in with the Penn State Scandal.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8163189/penn-state-cannot-allowed-football-team" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



"As with the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church, no parent can send a child into the world without wondering not only if a Sandusky is near their child but also if there are Paternos and Spaniers, Curleys and Schultzes who lack the courage and priority to protect them."



I have ESPN in protest at http://espn.go.com/espn/contact?lang=EN&country=united%20states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I must be blind - I found this quite in the article. I couldn't find your quote:



"As with the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts (among other large organizations that have previously failed to stop abuse), no parent can send a child into the world without wondering not only if a Sandusky is near their child but also if there are Paternos and Spaniers, Curleys and Schultzes who lack the courage and priority to protect them. The trusted failed, and everyone lost."

Good he changed it.

scott715 wrote:
Good he changed it.

Sorry to lump the LDS church in with other institutions who cover up pedophile. Oops, my bad. I meant to type Boy Scouts, but it came out Mormon Church. They're real close on the keyboard.

Apparantly he has done stuff like this before. I suspect they got a few comments about the article.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Good he changed it.

Sorry to lump the LDS church in with other institutions who cover up pedophile. Oops, my bad. I meant to type Boy Scouts, but it came out Mormon Church. They're real close on the keyboard.

Wowzi! Pretty stunning "mistake" eh? Good grief. :bug: Unbelievable.

To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

snoscythe wrote:
To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

BroncoBot wrote:

To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the church is on a par with the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts, but to get indignant because someone ties them to PSU or mentions them in an article about people covering up pedophilia is either naivete or a double-standard. It is a hard thing to manage in the church where you are trying to balance the safety of the other congregants on one hand, and forgiveness and confidentiality obligations (which can be confusing for lay officials in the church) on the other.

The church is actively trying to prevent these kinds of things. Now the membership records will include comments on things like this and a Bishop has to call the previous Bishop before extending a call to a move-in member. Also having two adults present with children and windows on doors inside the chapel.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the church is on a par with the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts, but to get indignant because someone ties them to PSU or mentions them in an article about people covering up pedophilia is either naivete or a double-standard. It is a hard thing to manage in the church where you are trying to balance the safety of the other congregants on one hand, and forgiveness and confidentiality obligations (which can be confusing for lay officials in the church) on the other.

Sno, the Oregon case is an ugly one, to be sure. But it is NOT on par in my view with Penn State. The Church had inadequaten systems in place to deal with the evil acts of some individuals, but that to my mind is very different from the highest of authorities actively covering up the conduct of those deviants and knowingly allowing the deviants to run amok all to protect the image of the church. IF that is what happened in Oregon then I plead ignorance but from what I have read that is not the case. So to try and tie the Church to what Penn State did IS unfair and inaccurate.

scott715 wrote:
The church is actively trying to prevent these kinds of things. Now the membership records will include comments on things like this and a Bishop has to call the previous Bishop before extending a call to a move-in member. Also having two adults present with children and windows on doors inside the chapel.

I'm sure Penn State, the Catholic Church, and the Boy Scouts all are now actively trying to prevent these kinds of things with their own policies.

BoiseBYU wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the church is on a par with the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts, but to get indignant because someone ties them to PSU or mentions them in an article about people covering up pedophilia is either naivete or a double-standard. It is a hard thing to manage in the church where you are trying to balance the safety of the other congregants on one hand, and forgiveness and confidentiality obligations (which can be confusing for lay officials in the church) on the other.

Sno, the Oregon case is an ugly one, to be sure. But it is NOT on par in my view with Penn State. The Church had inadequaten systems in place to deal with the evil acts of some individuals, but that to my mind is very different from the highest of authorities actively covering up the conduct of those deviants and knowingly allowing the deviants to run amok all to protect the image of the church. IF that is what happened in Oregon then I plead ignorance but from what I have read that is not the case. So to try and tie the Church to what Penn State did IS unfair and inaccurate.

Like I said not trying to do that. Just saying that Bryant had a pretty good reason for "lumping" the Mormons in with the others and that people need to be informed before they are indignant.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the church is on a par with the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts, but to get indignant because someone ties them to PSU or mentions them in an article about people covering up pedophilia is either naivete or a double-standard. It is a hard thing to manage in the church where you are trying to balance the safety of the other congregants on one hand, and forgiveness and confidentiality obligations (which can be confusing for lay officials in the church) on the other.

Sno, the Oregon case is an ugly one, to be sure. But it is NOT on par in my view with Penn State. The Church had inadequaten systems in place to deal with the evil acts of some individuals, but that to my mind is very different from the highest of authorities actively covering up the conduct of those deviants and knowingly allowing the deviants to run amok all to protect the image of the church. IF that is what happened in Oregon then I plead ignorance but from what I have read that is not the case. So to try and tie the Church to what Penn State did IS unfair and inaccurate.

Like I said not trying to do that. Just saying that Bryant had a pretty good reason for "lumping" the Mormons in with the others and that people need to be informed before they are indignant.

I know you were not and hope I didn't come across as suggesting so. Rather, I was trying to suggest that the likes of Bryant and others who try to do so are in my book being most unfair and inaccurate.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Good he changed it.

Sorry to lump the LDS church in with other institutions who cover up pedophile. Oops, my bad. I meant to type Boy Scouts, but it came out Mormon Church. They're real close on the keyboard.

The LDS Church is by far the largest sponser of Boy Scouts. Maybe as much as 1/3 of troops iirc.



In any event - many people hate the Mormon Church - given the Presidential election - it will be open season on anyone and anything even remotely Mormon.



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snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
To be fair, the church did settle a case in Oregon for $3MM where the accusation was that the church protected a high priest who had been molesting boys in the Boy Scouts for a decade. The guy (Franklin Curtis) would be caught, repent, and move on to a new location in the church, he was even excommunicated in PA for it. Because he had repented, the new congregations were never told about his past or given any warning because he had "repented." His victims spanned four states from Pennsylvania to Oregon. The church has been involved in many suits as co-defendants with the Boy Scouts, nearly all of which end in settlements.

yeesh. Unfortunately, the LDS church has its own share of deviants. Hopefully they (the church) learn how to manage this to minimize damages and get help for those that are affected by this sort of thing. Sad stuff for all involved.



Sounds like the system failed in the case you mention Sno.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the church is on a par with the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts, but to get indignant because someone ties them to PSU or mentions them in an article about people covering up pedophilia is either naivete or a double-standard. It is a hard thing to manage in the church where you are trying to balance the safety of the other congregants on one hand, and forgiveness and confidentiality obligations (which can be confusing for lay officials in the church) on the other.

I remember reading about the case you posted. If I remember correctly, the suit was settled in Oregon.



I disagree on several counts. One, I don't think the church tried to cover anything up. I think it was a policy the church had that did not take into account a committed, serial pedophile.



Two, I don't think I am naive (I know you were not directing your comments at me, I'm just using myself as a case in point) to call foul when a sports writer ties the Sandusky case to the Mormon Church. That is a very broad brush, and a very big smear.



We all are familiar with the details of the Sandusky case. The cover-up went clear up to the President, and involved powerful decision makers. There is no evidence that any pedophile case was known and covered up by the Prophet, and his management team (12 Apostles) as happened at Penn. St. There is no comparison.



So, are there pedophiles in the LDS Church? Yes. Does the Church cover it up? No. Have there been procedural weaknesses in dealing with a hardcore serial pedophile? Yes. But, I think the Church is seriously committed to correcting the problem. I think there are genuine differences between the LDS discipline challenges, Penn St, the Catholic Church, and the Boy Scouts.



Quite frankly, because we are in the repentance business, and redeeming the lost sheep there will always be challenges. There are judgement calls. There are procedural and policy weaknesses that are addressed and corrected over time. The goal is to "get it right" for all parties concerned.



Ok - now flame me. ;)

Let us not forget the real culprit - Sandusky and other perpetrators.



Head Coaches, University Presidents, Bishops, Assistant Coaches, Athletic Directors, Unuversity Police Administrators, Popes, Priests, and even Scouting Executives are human and make procedural and judgment errors trying to deal with these situations - and should be held accountable.



I did not know what a pedophile was until one molested a close family member and a whole neighborhood. I did not know that it is virtually impossible to rehabilitate one. I did not know how common this was until other family members started to confide in me after hearing of the highly visible incident. Until you are brought to a clear understanding of it all - I could see a head coach or Bishop think a stern warning would prevent any further occurrence. Wrong. Very wrong. These people are manipulators. You become another victim in a sense because you fell for there denial or explanation or rationalization.



I first wanted to trick the pedophile into a behind doors conversation so I could beat him to near death and claim self defense. I considered setting his house on fire to get him out of the neighborhood. I wanted to get the detectives fired for being so slow to investigate - until I learned that they had to place priority on situations where the molester was still in the home. Then the trial and all the motions to exclude, by trickery, the testimony of young children.



I finally realized the world was better off with the pedophile remaining in our neighborhood until convicted, because we could make sure everyone was warned. But there had been a previous warning - by parents of two "trouble maker" siblings and the neighbors all believed the denials - to their detriment. This time - too many accusers to ignore.



But Pedophile moved after I called his landlord who lived out of state and state licensing authorities - he was running a board and care for elderly in his house. So I followed his car to his new apartment complex and went into the office and announced loudly that an accused pedophile named David Hull had moved into their complex and that they could read about him in the news paper.



He got 6 years. Nowhere near enough. If he lives near you - do not trust his denial. He told his wife, keep in mind he married her when she was 14 with her mother's permission - keep in mind there had been prior accusations - that he only pleaded no contest because he was being framed. She believed him.



Be careful how harshly you judge those who screwed up trying to deal with what Jerry Sandusky or any other pedophiles did. And be careful, if there are more than 20 houses on your street - you almost certainly have a pedophile on your street. It will not be the drunken bum on the corner. It may be the clean cut, well spoken, educated man who seems to so kindly care for the elderly people next door - or the Bishop, Priest, Scoutmaster, little league coach, teacher, neighbor kid, parent, sibling- or in rare cases, a woman. Sadly - they were probably molested themselves.



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You're forgetting that the PSU president etc were hiding it from the BOT, who is more comparable to the GAs in your comparison. In neither case were the highest ups aware that there was an issue, and when they became aware, they addressed it.



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I took issue with the lumping in. My reasoning is/was The common and general knowledge threshold for the references is not there. Bryant wouldn't need to explain the reference for the Catholic Church in a story about Sandusky and covering up pedophilia. Everyone knows about that.



Same is somewhat true with the Boy Scouts. People know the Boy Scouts have had issues with pedophiles within their ranks.



There haven't been huge stories about the Mormon Church that made national news for weeks and weeks. There weren't huge cover-ups and settlements.



It was a cheap shot at the Church.

SpiffCoug wrote:
I took issue with the lumping in. My reasoning is/was The common and general knowledge threshold for the references is not there. Bryant wouldn't need to explain the reference for the Catholic Church in a story about Sandusky and covering up pedophilia. Everyone knows about that.



Same is somewhat true with the Boy Scouts. People know the Boy Scouts have had issues with pedophiles within their ranks.



There haven't been huge stories about the Mormon Church that made national news for weeks and weeks. There weren't huge cover-ups and settlements.



It was a cheap shot at the Church.

I think it was a cheap shot. One that could have been taken at any large organization involving children. It is a plague. It happens everywhere. There is rumored to be a former Bishop from my home town that molested his adopted African daughters for years before being caught. Wealthy man. Serving time now. And everyone has an opinion about what this all means. Cheap shot - yes. Totally unfair - who am I to judge.



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