Death Penalty for Penn State!

If there ever were an instance of a lack of institutional control as it relates to athletics, this is the case. Indeed, this is the case of an institution itself out of control. This is not some errant athletes getting tats. This is not a case of a rogue coach going too far. This is not an instance of a booster going over the top. This is not the case of an incompetent athletic director who does not know what his players or coaches are doing. This is a case of the Institution itself sacrificing children to protect its athletic program. Penn State needs to exit athletics for a period of time, I say five years, to regain its values and principles before it continues with its sports programs.

If USC and Ohio State lost some scholarships and bowl-eligibility for a year or two, then the death penalty should definitely be on the radar.



USC was an instance of a star player receiving money from boosters/agents and the school knew or should have known about it. Ohio State was a half dozen players selling gear and memorabilia and the coach helping to cover it up.



Penn State, as an institution, intentionally and knowingly looked the other way for over a decade while atrocious felonies against minors were being committed on University property...actually, in the football facilities.



At a minimum, I would suggest that they get a 14-year bowl/postseason ban and 10 scholarships per year for the next 14 years.

It'll never happen. If you go to wikipedia and read about the SMU death penalty, they blame that for bringing down the entire conference. The NCAA will never give a football team the death penalty again. They wouldn't want to destroy an entire conference to do it.

Boy you guys are hard on the B1G around here. To me, if it didn't relate to recruiting or the actual game, don't penalize the athletes. Hit them in their admin/coaching pocketbooks, let criminal law take it's toll, but leave football about football. This was a tragedy and in my book Paterno lost some of his lustre, but those are separate issues than the school playing football. Paterno and the school president lost their jobs over this, as they should, it's not like that is a light penalty.

frdbtr wrote:
It'll never happen. If you go to wikipedia and read about the SMU death penalty, they blame that for bringing down the entire conference. The NCAA will never give a football team the death penalty again. They wouldn't want to destroy an entire conference to do it.

SMU was paying players. They were obviously cheating and intentionally breaking the rules placed upon them.



Penn State, as an institution, was covering up criminal activity against minors to protect the value and reputation of Penn State football. HUGE difference. It's not just cheating, it is horrific.



I really don't think the loss of or detriment to Penn State would bring down the Big Ten. But imagine the realignment chaos that would be created if it did!! Or even if the Big Ten was seeking to replace Penn State...

EM_Puma wrote:
Boy you guys are hard on the B1G around here. To me, if it didn't relate to recruiting or the actual game, don't penalize the athletes. Hit them in their admin/coaching pocketbooks, let criminal law take it's toll, but leave football about football. This was a tragedy and in my book Paterno lost some of his lustre, but those are separate issues than the school playing football. Paterno and the school president lost their jobs over this, as they should, it's not like that is a light penalty.

totally agree. I don't see how the players who are currently playing should have to get involved in this. Remove all with knowledge or involved including coaches, administration, AD and whoever else may have even had scant knowledge of what was going on, and move on. Let the law do it's job and let the football players keep playing.

Of course it relates to players and coaching and recruiting.



Penn St didn't gain an advantage of having a very good defensive coach on their staff who should have been in jail?



Penn St recruiting didn't benefit from not having to worry about parental fears of the football program being closely associated with child rape?



Penn St didn't benefit from the additional money their football team brought in through bowls and wins and Paterno's legacy?



It's not a one-to-one correlation, but Penn St did and openly admitted to covering up these heinous crimes for the betterment of their football program. The cover up was BECAUSE of the football program.

YNot wrote:

It'll never happen. If you go to wikipedia and read about the SMU death penalty, they blame that for bringing down the entire conference. The NCAA will never give a football team the death penalty again. They wouldn't want to destroy an entire conference to do it.

SMU was paying players. They were obviously cheating and intentionally breaking the rules placed upon them.



Penn State, as an institution, was covering up criminal activity against minors to protect the value and reputation of Penn State football. HUGE difference. It's not just cheating, it is horrific.



I really don't think the loss of or detriment to Penn State would bring down the Big Ten. But imagine the realignment chaos that would be created if it did!! Or even if the Big Ten was seeking to replace Penn State...

I'm just going off of linked articles I read on the wikipedia site about the SMU death penalty. It was so financially devistating to SMU that it affected every team in the SWC and they blamed the death penalty for why the SWC broke up. I don't think that the NCAA will ever give the death penalty to a football team again.

There is a huge opportunity here for BYU. Let's say the prim and proper Big 10 Big Whigs jettison Penn State and Penn State is forced to go Indy again from whence they came iirc - Bam - BYU schedules them in November - 3 Happy Valley Provo for 1 Happy Valley Pennsylvania - and Bam Bam Bam - BYU has a new big name rival.



WINK WINK WINK



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EM_Puma wrote:
Boy you guys are hard on the B1G around here. To me, if it didn't relate to recruiting or the actual game, don't penalize the athletes. Hit them in their admin/coaching pocketbooks, let criminal law take it's toll, but leave football about football. This was a tragedy and in my book Paterno lost some of his lustre, but those are separate issues than the school playing football. Paterno and the school president lost their jobs over this, as they should, it's not like that is a light penalty.

Of course it was about football. It was all about football. And the money that it brought in. Paterno said multiple times that this shouldn't tarnish the rep of PSU football, yet he did the worst possible thing by looking the other way and letting it continue. It is all about football.



Yes, it would suck for the players and coaches and employees that would be affected. That is the risk you take when working for someone.



All football players transfer, without playing penalty, or get their full scholarships covered if they choose to finish at PSU. Employees get paid their full salary for the full length of the penalty. PSU just had a huge fundraising month, they can afford it.

northerncougar wrote:

Boy you guys are hard on the B1G around here. To me, if it didn't relate to recruiting or the actual game, don't penalize the athletes. Hit them in their admin/coaching pocketbooks, let criminal law take it's toll, but leave football about football. This was a tragedy and in my book Paterno lost some of his lustre, but those are separate issues than the school playing football. Paterno and the school president lost their jobs over this, as they should, it's not like that is a light penalty.

Of course it was about football. It was all about football. And the money that it brought in. Paterno said multiple times that this shouldn't tarnish the rep of PSU football, yet he did the worst possible thing by looking the other way and letting it continue. It is all about football.



Yes, it would suck for the players and coaches and employees that would be affected. That is the risk you take when working for someone.



All football players transfer, without playing penalty, or get their full scholarships covered if they choose to finish at PSU. Employees get paid their full salary for the full length of the penalty. PSU just had a huge fundraising month, they can afford it.

I think you have to be willfully turning a blind eye to say this isn't about football, EM_Puma. The whole thing has gone from a terrible crime by an individual to an unforgivable revelations about Joe Paterno and Penn State. No words can say enough about how despicable their actions were in order to maintain their power and relevancy in football.



Think of that, how many little boys were molested so that Penn State's football program didn't get embarrassed?

Don't punish the athletes? What's the biggest thing at PSU? FOOTBALL! Football is king and protecting football is the reason for the cover-up. When you are an athlete at a school, you are, sometimes unfortunately, tied to that school for good or bad. If USC didn't pay you specifically, they still may pull your scholarship because their number of schollies has been reduced. Football makes the money for all universities, especially ones like PSU, and hitting them there is appropriate because it is a big reason as to why and how this whole thing happened.

Schmoe wrote:
Don't punish the athletes? What's the biggest thing at PSU? FOOTBALL! Football is king and protecting football is the reason for the cover-up. When you are an athlete at a school, you are, sometimes unfortunately, tied to that school for good or bad. If USC didn't pay you specifically, they still may pull your scholarship because their number of schollies has been reduced. Football makes the money for all universities, especially ones like PSU, and hitting them there is appropriate because it is a big reason as to why and how this whole thing happened.

I just don't see the connection I guess. Nothing inherently wrong with the game of football at PSU, nor with its fans or athletes. Administrators, coaches, ADs, boosters (maybe), campus police etc sound to be the guilty ones. But most of those persons should and will be facing criminal charges (hopefully). I don't see how ending the football is an appropriate punishment for those who were actually involved. Those guilty are (hopefully) not going to be involved with PSU from this time forward regardless and have a lot more to worry about.



I mean, where do you draw the line? There are plenty of scandals in NCAA football every year. Let's just end college athletics while we are at it since there have been plenty of cover-ups and schools can't seem to handle the money and temptation.

BroncoBot wrote:

Don't punish the athletes? What's the biggest thing at PSU? FOOTBALL! Football is king and protecting football is the reason for the cover-up. When you are an athlete at a school, you are, sometimes unfortunately, tied to that school for good or bad. If USC didn't pay you specifically, they still may pull your scholarship because their number of schollies has been reduced. Football makes the money for all universities, especially ones like PSU, and hitting them there is appropriate because it is a big reason as to why and how this whole thing happened.

I just don't see the connection I guess. Nothing inherently wrong with the game of football at PSU, nor with its fans or athletes. Administrators, coaches, ADs, boosters (maybe), campus police etc sound to be the guilty ones. But most of those persons should and will be facing criminal charges (hopefully). I don't see how ending the football is an appropriate punishment for those who were actually involved. Those guilty are (hopefully) not going to be involved with PSU from this time forward regardless and have a lot more to worry about.



I mean, where do you draw the line? There are plenty of scandals in NCAA football every year. Let's just end college athletics while we are at it since there have been plenty of cover-ups and schools can't seem to handle the money and temptation.

The university, who makes it's money off of football, hired these men who kept this thing hushed up with the purpose of keeping the name of the University and it's football team in good standing with the final goal of money. You hit Penn St. in the moneymaker, take away all their scholarships, let them know that it is one thing to employ cheaters and it is another thing entirely to employ disgusting criminals and emphasize that much of this penalty is coming because of the cover-up itself. You send the message to universities that if they have known criminals that they better turn them in and fire them ASAP. The athletes can transfer if they choose, just as they did during the Duke Lacrosse debacle, and it won't be that big a deal to them. It will, however, greatly affect the university and send a powerful message about priorities to the rest of college football.

Schmoe wrote:

Schmoe wrote:
Don't punish the athletes? What's the biggest thing at PSU? FOOTBALL! Football is king and protecting football is the reason for the cover-up. When you are an athlete at a school, you are, sometimes unfortunately, tied to that school for good or bad. If USC didn't pay you specifically, they still may pull your scholarship because their number of schollies has been reduced. Football makes the money for all universities, especially ones like PSU, and hitting them there is appropriate because it is a big reason as to why and how this whole thing happened.

I just don't see the connection I guess. Nothing inherently wrong with the game of football at PSU, nor with its fans or athletes. Administrators, coaches, ADs, boosters (maybe), campus police etc sound to be the guilty ones. But most of those persons should and will be facing criminal charges (hopefully). I don't see how ending the football is an appropriate punishment for those who were actually involved. Those guilty are (hopefully) not going to be involved with PSU from this time forward regardless and have a lot more to worry about.



I mean, where do you draw the line? There are plenty of scandals in NCAA football every year. Let's just end college athletics while we are at it since there have been plenty of cover-ups and schools can't seem to handle the money and temptation.

The university, who makes it's money off of football, hired these men who kept this thing hushed up with the purpose of keeping the name of the University and it's football team in good standing with the final goal of money. You hit Penn St. in the moneymaker, take away all their scholarships, let them know that it is one thing to employ cheaters and it is another thing entirely to employ disgusting criminals and emphasize that much of this penalty is coming because of the cover-up itself. You send the message to universities that if they have known criminals that they better turn them in and fire them ASAP. The athletes can transfer if they choose, just as they did during the Duke Lacrosse debacle, and it won't be that big a deal to them. It will, however, greatly affect the university and send a powerful message about priorities to the rest of college football.

And suddenly your affecting tens of thousands of student lives as well. Doesn't fly with me.



Investigate, bring those responsible to court, and send a message through the legal system. You're speaking as if this was a well known issue that the entire university knew about and somehow covered up for 13 years when most likely it was a small handful of people who knew about it. They should be responsible for their actions.



Also, you're speaking as if this a widespread occurance. Why send a message to other universities to not hide criminals? Don't most universities already know that? And are there really a lot of Universities out there hiding criminals? I feel like PSU's issues are pretty isolated and should be handled case by case.

Careful, some folks on here might think you are part of the cover or that you think cover ups are ok.

dmcougar wrote:
Careful, some folks on here might think you are part of the cover or that you think cover ups are ok.

What cover up? ;)

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

Don't punish the athletes? What's the biggest thing at PSU? FOOTBALL! Football is king and protecting football is the reason for the cover-up. When you are an athlete at a school, you are, sometimes unfortunately, tied to that school for good or bad. If USC didn't pay you specifically, they still may pull your scholarship because their number of schollies has been reduced. Football makes the money for all universities, especially ones like PSU, and hitting them there is appropriate because it is a big reason as to why and how this whole thing happened.

I just don't see the connection I guess. Nothing inherently wrong with the game of football at PSU, nor with its fans or athletes. Administrators, coaches, ADs, boosters (maybe), campus police etc sound to be the guilty ones. But most of those persons should and will be facing criminal charges (hopefully). I don't see how ending the football is an appropriate punishment for those who were actually involved. Those guilty are (hopefully) not going to be involved with PSU from this time forward regardless and have a lot more to worry about.



I mean, where do you draw the line? There are plenty of scandals in NCAA football every year. Let's just end college athletics while we are at it since there have been plenty of cover-ups and schools can't seem to handle the money and temptation.

The university, who makes it's money off of football, hired these men who kept this thing hushed up with the purpose of keeping the name of the University and it's football team in good standing with the final goal of money. You hit Penn St. in the moneymaker, take away all their scholarships, let them know that it is one thing to employ cheaters and it is another thing entirely to employ disgusting criminals and emphasize that much of this penalty is coming because of the cover-up itself. You send the message to universities that if they have known criminals that they better turn them in and fire them ASAP. The athletes can transfer if they choose, just as they did during the Duke Lacrosse debacle, and it won't be that big a deal to them. It will, however, greatly affect the university and send a powerful message about priorities to the rest of college football.

And suddenly your affecting tens of thousands of student lives as well. Doesn't fly with me.



Investigate, bring those responsible to court, and send a message through the legal system. You're speaking as if this was a well known issue that the entire university knew about and somehow covered up for 13 years when most likely it was a small handful of people who knew about it. They should be responsible for their actions.



Also, you're speaking as if this a widespread occurance. Why send a message to other universities to not hide criminals? Don't most universities already know that? And are there really a lot of Universities out there hiding criminals? I feel like PSU's issues are pretty isolated and should be handled case by case.

Oh no, I'm affecting student's lives because they can't watch football? How terrible! I suppose I should just have them molested instead. Seriously though, that's what happens when you align yourself with a university. The students at SMU didn't have anything to do with the pay for play scandal, the students at USC didn't have anything to do with all their problems, the students at OSU weren't the ones selling jerseys for tattoos and drugs. It was just a select few people in each of these cases, but it does affect the entire university, boo hoo.



Do I think criminal activity is widespread in college football? Have you checked the police reports for athletes lately? Do you think that there are coaches and administrators that might be aware of unreported crimes committed by players and other coaches? And, even if it's not "widespread" right now, what kind of message do you send when you turn a blind eye to it? You have to understand that there are all kinds of crimes, not just those of a sexual nature.

1. I don't care if students can or can't watch football. I do care if their tuition was raised because, as you argue, football was the main income source for the university.

2. USC/SMU/OSU violations were actual NCAA violations. That's why the NCAA appropriately punished those schools.

3. These weren't athletes involved in the crimes at PSU. (Maybe if boosters were involved the NCAA would have a case here to shut the program down, I'll give you that.)

4. If there are coaches and administrators that are not reporting crimes, they should be punished by the law, just like a university president should be punished by the law if he/she knows that crimes have been committed by faculty/administration and try to hide it.

5. Where did I advocated turning a blind eye. Have always been for punishing those responsible. How is throwing into prison Sandusky, AD, school president and anyone else responsible turning a blind eye? How is that not a message to these other schools that you believe are hiding criminals?

6. Crimes of all natures, including sexual, should be handled by law enforcement.

7. NCAA violations (paying for play, favors to athletes, etc etc) should be handled by the NCAA.

EM_Puma wrote:
Boy you guys are hard on the B1G around here. To me, if it didn't relate to recruiting or the actual game, don't penalize the athletes. Hit them in their admin/coaching pocketbooks, let criminal law take it's toll, but leave football about football. This was a tragedy and in my book Paterno lost some of his lustre, but those are separate issues than the school playing football. Paterno and the school president lost their jobs over this, as they should, it's not like that is a light penalty.

you can let the kids go elsewhere with no penalty for transferring. the big ten will survive just fine



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