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Best Big 12 explanation

by stuckinbig10country · 6/27/2012

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frdbtr
Everything he said fits perfectly with what has been bounced around in the media with much more detail. If you are to believe him (and he has been dead on in other inside info that he has had) than this is the best article on what happened to date. And it puts everything 100% on sunday play and Fox.
M
Mars


This whole thing reads like "How everyone at BYU is incompetent".



Seriously? We refuse joining the Big XII? Because...



1- We demand to keep all of our Tier 3 rights, including the ESPN deal and money, rebroadcast rights, BYUtv, and internet.



2- We demand that they all sign a 5-year binding agreement.



3- We refuse to accept anything in good faith, instead demanding that it all be put into legally-binding writing first with their lawyers, even though they are on a quickly approaching deadline.





Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:


This whole thing reads like "How everyone at BYU is incompetent".



Seriously? We refuse joining the Big XII? Because...



1- We demand to keep all of our Tier 3 rights, including the ESPN deal and money, rebroadcast rights, BYUtv, and internet.



2- We demand that they all sign a 5-year binding agreement.



3- We refuse to accept anything in good faith, instead demanding that it all be put into legally-binding writing first with their lawyers, even though they are on a quickly approaching deadline.





Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.


If you don't get it in writing, there is no deal. BYU did it right. What would you be saying about BYU admin if Fox demanded that BYU play a conference tourney BB game on sunday, and then had to forfeit the game and was fined a large dollar amount all because we didn't have the no sunday play rule in writing. You were one of the loudest criticizers of the MWC and its TV deal and how BYU got screwed by Comcast and do you want to know why BYU was in that deal? They didn't get their initial demands in writing. Fool me once, shame on you , fool me twice, shame on me. I have no problem with not being in the Big 12 right now if what this guy wrote is true.
M
Mars
frdbtr wrote:
If you don't get it in writing, there is no deal. BYU did it right. What would you be saying about BYU admin if Fox demanded that BYU play a conference tourney BB game on sunday, and then had to forfeit the game and was fined a large dollar amount all because we didn't have the no sunday play rule in writing. You were one of the loudest criticizers of the MWC and its TV deal and how BYU got screwed by Comcast and do you want to know why BYU was in that deal? They didn't get their initial demands in writing. Fool me once, shame on you , fool me twice, shame on me. I have no problem with not being in the Big 12 right now if what this guy wrote is true.

To me, this response makes no sense and is illogical.



1- Are you really comparing the MWC to the Big XII?

Really? Wyoming to Texas? $1MM/year to $20MM/year?



2- Do you really think that the Big XII and its TV partners would try to force BYU into playing games on Sunday, against their wishes?

You think they were recruiting us to the league expecting to force Sunday play upon us?

You think it would cost us financial payments to refuse, once we were in the conference?

Even though nothing regarding guaranteeing Sunday play was in writing, and BYU hadn't signed anything?



3- Which is worse, being in the Big XII with some details left to be ironed out, or not being in the Big XII?

WCC basketball (Gonzaga), or Big XII Basketball (Kansas)?

Indy football (Idaho, NMSU), or Big XII football (Texas, Oklahoma)?

Current money/bowls/playoff access, or that gained from being in a power conference?



I think those answers expose the blog as poorly thought-out.
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mjk5
Mars wrote:

1- Are you really comparing the MWC to the Big XII?

Really? Wyoming to Texas? $1MM/year to $20MM/year?

So because the Big 12 pays more money they are less likely to go back on their handshake agreements?



FWIW, I wouldn't necessarily expect the Big 12 to try to force us to play Sundays. But I can ABSOLUTELY see Fox trying to.



EDIT: I'm as upset as anyone that we could not get into the Big 12, but I also wouldn't have jumped without the Sunday issue in writing.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
If you don't get it in writing, there is no deal. BYU did it right. What would you be saying about BYU admin if Fox demanded that BYU play a conference tourney BB game on sunday, and then had to forfeit the game and was fined a large dollar amount all because we didn't have the no sunday play rule in writing. You were one of the loudest criticizers of the MWC and its TV deal and how BYU got screwed by Comcast and do you want to know why BYU was in that deal? They didn't get their initial demands in writing. Fool me once, shame on you , fool me twice, shame on me. I have no problem with not being in the Big 12 right now if what this guy wrote is true.

To me, this response makes no sense and is illogical.



1- Are you really comparing the MWC to the Big XII?

Really? Wyoming to Texas? $1MM/year to $20MM/year?



2- Do you really think that the Big XII and its TV partners would try to force BYU into playing games on Sunday, against their wishes?

You think they were recruiting us to the league expecting to force Sunday play upon us?

You think it would cost us financial payments to refuse, once we were in the conference?

Even though nothing regarding guaranteeing Sunday play was in writing, and BYU hadn't signed anything?



3- Which is worse, being in the Big XII with some details left to be ironed out, or not being in the Big XII?

WCC basketball (Gonzaga), or Big XII Basketball (Kansas)?

Indy football (Idaho, NMSU), or Big XII football (Texas, Oklahoma)?

Current money/bowls/playoff access, or that gained from being in a power conference?



I think those answers expose the blog as poorly thought-out.


Your answers show you as naieve at best and ignorant at worst mars.



1. No, I don't think the Big 12 is a comparable conference to the MWC



2. Yes, I think it is possible that Fox would have said to BYU at some point "Play or face a fine"



3. Not getting a business deal in writing is the best way to get screwed I have ever seen. You obviously don't have much experience in the real world of business. I made the mistake of not getting something in writing once, kind of like BYU did with comcast and it will never happen again.
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frdbtr
mjk5 wrote:

1- Are you really comparing the MWC to the Big XII?

Really? Wyoming to Texas? $1MM/year to $20MM/year?

So because the Big 12 pays more money they are less likely to go back on their handshake agreements?



FWIW, I wouldn't necessarily expect the Big 12 to try to force us to play Sundays. But I can ABSOLUTELY see Fox trying to.



EDIT: I'm as upset as anyone that we could not get into the Big 12, but I also wouldn't have jumped without the Sunday issue in writing.


I wouldn't have wanted BYU to join the Big 12 without every issue they were negotiating in writing. That is just the way business works especially when big money is at stake.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:

1- Are you really comparing the MWC to the Big XII?

Really? Wyoming to Texas? $1MM/year to $20MM/year?



2- Do you really think that the Big XII and its TV partners would try to force BYU into playing games on Sunday, against their wishes?

You think they were recruiting us to the league expecting to force Sunday play upon us?

You think it would cost us financial payments to refuse, once we were in the conference?

Even though nothing regarding guaranteeing Sunday play was in writing, and BYU hadn't signed anything?



3- Which is worse, being in the Big XII with some details left to be ironed out, or not being in the Big XII?

WCC basketball (Gonzaga), or Big XII Basketball (Kansas)?

Indy football (Idaho, NMSU), or Big XII football (Texas, Oklahoma)?

Current money/bowls/playoff access, or that gained from being in a power conference?



I think those answers expose the blog as poorly thought-out. [/color]


One other point MARS, if Fox would never force BYU to play sunday or forfeit or be fined, why would they not just guarantee in writing that BYU would never have to. Like I said, if it isn't in writing, it never happened. Fox could legally state that BYU never asked for an exeption if it isn't in writing. Kind of like what Comcast did after BYU accepted a hand shake agreement with them for rebroadcast rights to their games and Comcast basicly said "we don't know what you are talking about" when BYU tried to make them honor their agreement.
A
ABYUFAN
Mars wrote:


This whole thing reads like "How everyone at BYU is incompetent".



Seriously? We refuse joining the Big XII? Because...



1- We demand to keep all of our Tier 3 rights, including the ESPN deal and money, rebroadcast rights, BYUtv, and internet.



2- We demand that they all sign a 5-year binding agreement.



3- We refuse to accept anything in good faith, instead demanding that it all be put into legally-binding writing first with their lawyers, even though they are on a quickly approaching deadline.





Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

I read this different than you... I read this as if we had any legally bindingng assurances that we'd not be scheduled toplay on Sunday we'd have taken the leap of faith to move. One didn't come, so we couldn't move. If this is really how it went down, I'm OK with it....
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frdbtr
The thing is, if BYU had taken the good faith deal and then a few years down the road, BYU BB team is in the Big 12 conference tourney and they have a game scheduled for Sunday. Fox says, you don't show, your forfiet. BYU forfeits and loses, and then doesn't get an invite to the NCAA tourney. Mars here then blames the BYU administration for not getting the sunday play thing in writing and they are all a bunch of incomeptent idiots for not forseeing that this could happen. Yep, this is what would happen because some folks are not pleased no matter what you do.
M
Mars
frdbtr wrote:
Your answers show you as naieve at best and ignorant at worst mars.

Buy a dictionary first, then respond.
M
Mars
ABYUFAN wrote:
I read this different than you... I read this as if we had any legally bindingng assurances that we'd not be scheduled toplay on Sunday we'd have taken the leap of faith to move. One didn't come, so we couldn't move. If this is really how it went down, I'm OK with it...

Yeah, I see it as the Big XII telling us we wouldn't ever having to play on Sunday, and to take it in good faith while the details slowly get hammered out on paper so they can quickly make an announcement, then us basically being jerks about the whole deal and saying that we don't trust them, and TCU agreeing to make a deal in principle in our place, thus taking our spot. Just seems like poor management by BYU's part, making the mistake of letting red tape stop the best thing in school history from occurring. Just a horrible bungle. I don't think anyone thinks that BYU is better off not being in the Big XII, and I doubt anyone thinks that the Big XII wanted to force us to play on Sunday. Saying "well we didn't want to make the MWC mistake again" is to completely ignore that the two are completely different situations at opposite ends of the college football scale, re: inclusion vs. exclusion.
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ABYUFAN
Mars wrote:
I read this different than you... I read this as if we had any legally bindingng assurances that we'd not be scheduled toplay on Sunday we'd have taken the leap of faith to move. One didn't come, so we couldn't move. If this is really how it went down, I'm OK with it...

Yeah, I see it as the Big XII telling us we wouldn't ever having to play on Sunday, and to take it in good faith while the details slowly get hammered out on paper so they can quickly make an announcement, then us basically being jerks about the whole deal and saying that we don't trust them, and TCU agreeing to make a deal in principle in our place, thus taking our spot. Just seems like poor management by BYU's part, making the mistake of letting red tape stop the best thing in school history from occurring. Just a horrible bungle. I don't think anyone thinks that BYU is better off not being in the Big XII, and I doubt anyone thinks that the Big XII wanted to force us to play on Sunday. Saying "well we didn't want to make the MWC mistake again" is to completely ignore that the two are completely different situations at opposite ends of the college football scale, re: inclusion vs. exclusion.

We've had women's sports not participate in Sunday play and have to forfeit NCAA events haven't we? I'm comfortable that we'd never see a football game on Sunday, but there are no guarantees about the Olympic sports, and I think that that was where we broke down.



As someone said earlier, if it was "no big deal" the Big 12 would have just written down on paper that “no BYU sports would ever have to play on Sunday" and signed it and we'd be good. Because they couldn't do even that, BYU was justified in holding out. There a lot of people I make a good living on people trusting others and leaving the details to be ironed out later.
Y
YNot
The TV deal was also an issue, not just Sunday play, that BYU would have had to take on good faith. I don't blame the administration from choosing not to blindly jump into it a la the desperation of WVU and TCU.



As far as being the best thing in school history...really? The Big 12 could turn into something great, especially if rumors about Florida State and Notre Dame actually turn out. But, really, Iowa State? Baylor? Texas Tech? Kansas State?



Now, I like Texas, Oklahoma, and the revived Oklahoma State, but we can play them without being part of the Big 12. I prefer end-of-year games in South Bend and Honolulu to Ames, Lawrence, Waco, and Lubbock.



And do the Meineke Texas Bowl against Big Ten #8 and the New Era Pinstripes Bowl against Big East #6 really excite? (the Cotton Bowl and Fiesta Bowl will most often go with Texas or Oklahoma.....)
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Gunk
Get it in writing before you move. Always.



Honestly, Mars, would you leave your job for another without knowing what your new salary would be, health coverage, vacation days, etc. and just trust that those things will get worked out? No way. Perhaps if you're unemployed and your family was starving you'd jump before looking, but it's hardly like BYU is destitute.



Had BYU just gone with it, you can bet some sports would have lost out. We would have sold out the success of other sports and athletes for football money. If no Sunday play was no big deal to the Big12 and they had every intention on honoring that then why didn't the simply put it in writing? Bottom line, they had no intention of honoring it, not under their current broadcasting contracts. Basically, the Big12 tried to pressure us into it; tried to pressure us into compromising our morals or the success of our other programs.



Good call, BYU. Get it writing.
M
Mars
Gunk wrote:
Honestly, Mars, would you leave your job for another without knowing what your new salary would be, health coverage, vacation days, etc. and just trust that those things will get worked out?

As long as they told me in good faith that they would pay me about 20x more than my current salary? Yes. If I didn't, I would be extremely stupid.
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BroncoBot
Mars wrote:
Yeah, I see it as the Big XII telling us we wouldn't ever having to play on Sunday, and to take it in good faith while the details slowly get hammered out on paper so they can quickly make an announcement, then us basically being jerks about the whole deal and saying that we don't trust them, and TCU agreeing to make a deal in principle in our place, thus taking our spot. Just seems like poor management by BYU's part, making the mistake of letting red tape stop the best thing in school history from occurring. Just a horrible bungle.


I bet salesmen love you. That darn red tape, always ruining a good deal. I admire guys like you who just completely ignore it.
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stuckinbig10country
Ok, the reason I posted this was I felt it was an accurate description of what happened, with dates and additional information. There were two things that held up the deal as far as I can see it: the TV contracts (both BYU's and the conference's) and Fox's change in stance on Sunday play almost overnight. The first one would have been overlooked, but the second one couldn't be by BYU.



Shog points out had BYU had assurance on Sunday play, it would have let the TV part sort itself out. I think BYU would have given up immediate rebroadcast rights as long as they kept the third tier rights (which they would have because of LHN).
M
Mars
BroncoBot wrote:
That darn red tape, always ruining a good deal. I admire guys like you who just completely ignore it.

Guys like me, and TCU, and West Virginia, and all the other non-cowards who have gambled and won while BYU sits at home dateless on a Saturday night. There is no excuse for how badly BYU failed. Even trying to play the Sunday sacred cow card rings as completely false and desperately untrue. In reality, BYU simply has poor management, foolish admin, bad decision-makers, bad negotiators, and terrible lawyers. That's it.
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