"IN THE WAY" - The Riley Nelson Legacy

Barring an improbable level of success in 2012 - undefeated season



Riley Nelson will finish his career saddled with the following baggage in the eyes of his detractors that he has not and seemingly will not be able to win over.



The USU guy that would never measure up to the Studs in the BYU pipeline - a quick fix at best to provide depth until guys got back from missions or a real QB came along - I forget the names of the greats in the pipeline that eventually bailed and went elsewhere or stepped aside with a wink and a nod to let Riley move up to 2nd string. Nobody wanted this annoyance getting any reps that might get him a shot at starting in 2010. But we had them, Lark, and Munns all stacked up and Riley was just IN THE WAY - mucking things up - DELAYING The Coming of the NEXT Great One.



And he was a running QB to boot. Weak arm.



And then Jake Heaps came along and Riley was really in the way of Cougar fan dreams - true freshman - 3 years - NC, Heisman, 1st pick in what would now be the very next NFL draft. Riley Nelson. Annoying. Mucking things up. Taking reps from the great one. IN THE WAY.



As Heaps faltered behind an average OL and average RBs and WRs and a lack of Unga and receivers with dropsies and a horrible DC and hated OC - soon Nelson found himself IN THE WAY of Lark in the eyes of many.



And as Heaps faltered more and fell out with Doman and team-mates some have learned to enjoy what we have with Riley Nelson, warts, abs, political nature, hair, arm, shoulder, ribs and what not. And some have not.



To many, RN is still IN THE WAY of Lark, Hill, and the others and is the reason Jake failed.



What a legacy.



To me his legacy is this:



The best QB on the team in terms of readiness to play in 2010, 2011, and 2012 who was a gutsy and entertaining overachiever who would not accept the limitations and ceilings placed upon him by others. A winner and a competitor and a fiery leader.



Perhaps Riley Nelson will even exceed the expectations of his Chief Apologist - The Whine Bibster in 2012.



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I am not sure that there will be much of a legacy from Riley Nelson unless he does something truly spectacular this season. Riley surpassed my expectations last year - and I think he can build on those things - but I still have some degree of trepidation over some of his decision-making and how reliable/consistent he is. He is a gamer - I will give him that...but I still hold some concerns about how he will fare throwing the ball against better competition. I think the evidence from last year is mixed [Utah State, TCU, and Tulsa]. I though he played pretty well against TCU...he played well against Tulsa at key moments.



My guess is that he is better than he was last year - but it will not be a transformation to complete and total greatness.



Here is hoping to him proving me wrong - again.

Here's what I think - Riley Nelson has been more fun to watch play QB for BYU since Steve Young. He may not be the best, but I know he's giving his all. I only wish I could be there in person to see the games (like I was for most of Steve Young's games).



People don't seem to remember that even the very best QBs that have played at BYU have had many detractors. They disappear and the memory fades, but they were there. I'm looking forward to a great, entertaining football season.

IowaCougar wrote:
Here's what I think - Riley Nelson has been more fun to watch play QB for BYU since Steve Young. He may not be the best, but I know he's giving his all. I only wish I could be there in person to see the games (like I was for most of Steve Young's games).



People don't seem to remember that even the very best QBs that have played at BYU have had many detractors. They disappear and the memory fades, but they were there. I'm looking forward to a great, entertaining football season.

I passed through Iowa many times on I80 driving between SLC and Chicago. That is a very long ride. Luckily TV coverage has improved since I lived in the Midwest.



Maybe you can buy a chair - made to look like a 1983 car - can't think of a memorable model like 55 or 56 Chevy or 69 Z28 - but get a car chair from that era and pretend you are on I80 listening to a faded crackling KSL Radio broadcast. But last time I listened to KSL while barreling down I80, McMahon lost to Wyoming sporting a knee brace in a blizzard. Bad idea.



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pjmuli wrote:
I am not sure that there will be much of a legacy from Riley Nelson unless he does something truly spectacular this season. Riley surpassed my expectations last year - and I think he can build on those things - but I still have some degree of trepidation over some of his decision-making and how reliable/consistent he is. He is a gamer - I will give him that...but I still hold some concerns about how he will fare throwing the ball against better competition. I think the evidence from last year is mixed [Utah State, TCU, and Tulsa]. I though he played pretty well against TCU...he played well against Tulsa at key moments.



My guess is that he is better than he was last year - but it will not be a transformation to complete and total greatness.



Here is hoping to him proving me wrong - again.

I think with a 10-win season he'll fall somewhere among the Kevin Feteriks and John Walshes of BYU lore. We'll look back and think, "Gee, they weren't too bad. Still, it never felt like they were that good either."



It will take a herculean effort (like 11+ wins [just 8 QBs here], a 165+ PER [only 5 QBs in that club], 35+ TDs [only45 QBs in this club], 4000+ yards [only 4 QBs have reached that level], etc.) to change his standing.



I think he's got a decent chance of reaching some of those effort levels and probably a better chance than most think. But in all likelihood, his career legacy will be much more Walsh-like than Young-like.

I will remember Riley fondly if for no other reason than he scored a TD against TCU running with toughness AND then hi fiving the ref signifying the TD. That play was awesome.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
Barring an improbable level of success in 2012 - undefeated season



Riley Nelson will finish his career saddled with the following baggage in the eyes of his detractors that he has not and seemingly will not be able to win over.



The USU guy that would never measure up to the Studs in the BYU pipeline - a quick fix at best to provide depth until guys got back from missions or a real QB came along - I forget the names of the greats in the pipeline that eventually bailed and went elsewhere or stepped aside with a wink and a nod to let Riley move up to 2nd string. Nobody wanted this annoyance getting any reps that might get him a shot at starting in 2010. But we had them, Lark, and Munns all stacked up and Riley was just IN THE WAY - mucking things up - DELAYING The Coming of the NEXT Great One.



And he was a running QB to boot. Weak arm.



And then Jake Heaps came along and Riley was really in the way of Cougar fan dreams - true freshman - 3 years - NC, Heisman, 1st pick in what would now be the very next NFL draft. Riley Nelson. Annoying. Mucking things up. Taking reps from the great one. IN THE WAY.



As Heaps faltered behind an average OL and average RBs and WRs and a lack of Unga and receivers with dropsies and a horrible DC and hated OC - soon Nelson found himself IN THE WAY of Lark in the eyes of many.



And as Heaps faltered more and fell out with Doman and team-mates some have learned to enjoy what we have with Riley Nelson, warts, abs, political nature, hair, arm, shoulder, ribs and what not. And some have not.



To many, RN is still IN THE WAY of Lark, Hill, and the others and is the reason Jake failed.



What a legacy.



To me his legacy is this:



The best QB on the team in terms of readiness to play in 2010, 2011, and 2012 who was a gutsy and entertaining overachiever who would not accept the limitations and ceilings placed upon him by others. A winner and a competitor and a fiery leader.



Perhaps Riley Nelson will even exceed the expectations of his Chief Apologist - The Whine Bibster in 2012.



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Meh. This is true for a few but you use way too broad of a brush by painting most fans this way. I haven't heard anyone of substance talk about Lark starting over Nelson. That's crazy talk and it isn't happening.



As far as Heaps, it was very obvious to all but a few that he wasn't going anywhere last year and Nelson save our season.



Beating Utah will go a long way in cementing his legacy. The other thing he can do is better game management. He had way too many wild throws last year and he needs to settle down a little. Just doing that will help tremendously and being a Sr. should help in this area.



Riley's biggest obstacle is himself. It's not a few fans here and there who don't like him. Everyone I know wants him to succeed, but are being cautiously optimistic about his chances.

All I know is last year before Riley came in I almost dreaded our offense being on the field.



Prior to the last part of the USU game I'd almost given up on the offense getting a first down, let alone touchdowns.



The point where Riley won me over was the SJSU game. MJ was streaking down the sideline and had gotten behind the secondary. Riley throws and hits MJ in stride right in his hands for a 40 yard TD. (MJ caught the ball on the 5 ie the ball flew 35 yards in the air).



Contrast that to the EXACT same play vs Texas after the sick acrobatic interception by Sorensen. Again MJ is streaking down the sideline, again he gets behind the secondary complete open field in front of him. . . the pass flies 10 feet over his head. Heaps makes that throw (same throw that Riley was able to make) and we win that game going away (the score would have been 21-0 at that point I believe).

From Apologist to Excusist?



Riley is not "in the way" of anything or anybody this year. I have not seen one person claim hes in the way of Lark. Ironic, really, because if anything--



NOTHING IS IN THE WAY OF RILEY, now.



So BRING IT! If you want this offense to deliver, then start with the Oline in the offseason and get on them!! You want success then smack them up side the head, ala Detmer. You want qb greatness, then get in their face when they are sucking and sucking air, ala McMahan. worry less about your hair and tan (the abs are ok) and worry more about what your mates are doing. Lead them to greatness. Run after their fat big arses and cheer them on. Work out with them as much as your WR's. Then, no apologies or excuses.

SpiffCoug wrote:

I am not sure that there will be much of a legacy from Riley Nelson unless he does something truly spectacular this season. Riley surpassed my expectations last year - and I think he can build on those things - but I still have some degree of trepidation over some of his decision-making and how reliable/consistent he is. He is a gamer - I will give him that...but I still hold some concerns about how he will fare throwing the ball against better competition. I think the evidence from last year is mixed [Utah State, TCU, and Tulsa]. I though he played pretty well against TCU...he played well against Tulsa at key moments.



My guess is that he is better than he was last year - but it will not be a transformation to complete and total greatness.



Here is hoping to him proving me wrong - again.

I think with a 10-win season he'll fall somewhere among the Kevin Feteriks and John Walshes of BYU lore. We'll look back and think, "Gee, they weren't too bad. Still, it never felt like they were that good either."



It will take a herculean effort (like 11+ wins [just 8 QBs here], a 165+ PER [only 5 QBs in that club], 35+ TDs [only45 QBs in this club], 4000+ yards [only 4 QBs have reached that level], etc.) to change his standing.



I think he's got a decent chance of reaching some of those effort levels and probably a better chance than most think. But in all likelihood, his career legacy will be much more Walsh-like than Young-like.

Kevin Feterik is an interesting comparison. Many fans thought he was in the way. That is about where I would put Riley - between Feterik and Doman. But who knows. It will be fun to watch.



Walsh was a different situation. Most fans wish he had returned for his senior season. I thought it was a mistake to go early and that proved to be the case. He passed up the chance to take his legacy to a higher level and I think he would have done so if he stayed. He was getting some Heisman mention and could have popped up another 4,000 yards or more. But it was not to be.



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SpiffCoug wrote:

I am not sure that there will be much of a legacy from Riley Nelson unless he does something truly spectacular this season. Riley surpassed my expectations last year - and I think he can build on those things - but I still have some degree of trepidation over some of his decision-making and how reliable/consistent he is. He is a gamer - I will give him that...but I still hold some concerns about how he will fare throwing the ball against better competition. I think the evidence from last year is mixed [Utah State, TCU, and Tulsa]. I though he played pretty well against TCU...he played well against Tulsa at key moments.



My guess is that he is better than he was last year - but it will not be a transformation to complete and total greatness.



Here is hoping to him proving me wrong - again.

I think with a 10-win season he'll fall somewhere among the Kevin Feteriks and John Walshes of BYU lore. We'll look back and think, "Gee, they weren't too bad. Still, it never felt like they were that good either."



It will take a herculean effort (like 11+ wins [just 8 QBs here], a 165+ PER [only 5 QBs in that club], 35+ TDs [only45 QBs in this club], 4000+ yards [only 4 QBs have reached that level], etc.) to change his standing.



I think he's got a decent chance of reaching some of those effort levels and probably a better chance than most think. But in all likelihood, his career legacy will be much more Walsh-like than Young-like.

Kevin Feterik is an interesting comparison. Many fans thought he was in the way. That is about where I would put Riley - between Feterik and Doman. But who knows. It will be fun to watch.



Walsh was a different situation. Most fans wish he had returned for his senior season. I thought it was a mistake to go early and that proved to be the case. He passed up the chance to take his legacy to a higher level and I think he would have done so if he stayed. He was getting some Heisman mention and could have popped up another 4,000 yards or more. But it was not to be.



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Bart Starr of the Green Bay Packers was an average QB, but he had a great coach, a great OL, great running backs, and a great D. Nelson will look much, much better when the OL blocks everybody, the running back gain lots of yards, and the receivers make him look good--and then the Defense gives him the ball back enough times to win the game.



Nobody knows how good Nelson is; the running backs were kind of missing last year, and the OL was erratic, so we don't know how good he can "look." IF all the pieces come together, and the "team" is a great team, then Nelson will look great also, and he won't have to be superman, he can be just a regular, ordinarily good QB on a great team...like Bart Starr was.

golong wrote:
Bart Starr of the Green Bay Packers was an average QB, but he had a great coach, a great OL, great running backs, and a great D. Nelson will look much, much better when the OL blocks everybody, the running back gain lots of yards, and the receivers make him look good--and then the Defense gives him the ball back enough times to win the game.



Nobody knows how good Nelson is; the running backs were kind of missing last year, and the OL was erratic, so we don't know how good he can "look." IF all the pieces come together, and the "team" is a great team, then Nelson will look great also, and he won't have to be superman, he can be just a regular, ordinarily good QB on a great team...like Bart Starr was.

I totally agree with this post. I only question whether he will remain healthy and whether FB, RB, TE, and OL will perform in the way you described. All of the other pieces should fall into place. Even Special Teams play should be more consistent this year due to experience.



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Speaking of Nelson, and somewhat related, did anyone catch Tim Tebow sign Mark Sanchez' death knell?



I read that Tebow said he'll play special teams if needs to just to get on the field and help his team.



Explain to me again why the Jets went out and courted a QB controversy after signing their sanchize QB to a long term, expensive extension?

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Walsh was a different situation. Most fans wish he had returned for his senior season. I thought it was a mistake to go early and that proved to be the case. He passed up the chance to take his legacy to a higher level and I think he would have done so if he stayed. He was getting some Heisman mention and could have popped up another 4,000 yards or more. But it was not to be.

Fans wanted him to stay at the time, because he was coming off a pretty good 1994 campaign. But if Walsh hadn't have left, then BYU never would have gotten Sarkisian to come. While Sarkisian had a decent though inconsistent first season in 1995 during which he set the NCAA record for completion percentage in a game 31 for 34 (and 2 incompletions were throw aways), he needed that season to become the lights out QB he was in 1996. As good as the senior-laden 1996 team was, without an experienced QB, there's no way they go 14-1 with a Cotton Bowl win. Walsh stays around, 1996 never happens.



We can debate if 1995 under Walsh in 1995 would be better than 1996 under Sarkisian. The 1995 team wasn't as good as the 1996 team, so I'm not sure if a QB change would have made up points in some relatively large losses. Under Walsh, I think BYU goes 9-2 in 1995, still losing to Air Force and UCLA but beating Arizona State and Utah.

Mingjai wrote:

Walsh was a different situation. Most fans wish he had returned for his senior season. I thought it was a mistake to go early and that proved to be the case. He passed up the chance to take his legacy to a higher level and I think he would have done so if he stayed. He was getting some Heisman mention and could have popped up another 4,000 yards or more. But it was not to be.

Fans wanted him to stay at the time, because he was coming off a pretty good 1994 campaign. But if Walsh hadn't have left, then BYU never would have gotten Sarkisian to come. While Sarkisian had a decent though inconsistent first season in 1995 during which he set the NCAA record for completion percentage in a game 31 for 34 (and 2 incompletions were throw aways), he needed that season to become the lights out QB he was in 1996. As good as the senior-laden 1996 team was, without an experienced QB, there's no way they go 14-1 with a Cotton Bowl win. Walsh stays around, 1996 never happens.



We can debate if 1995 under Walsh in 1995 would be better than 1996 under Sarkisian. The 1995 team wasn't as good as the 1996 team, so I'm not sure if a QB change would have made up points in some relatively large losses. Under Walsh, I think BYU goes 9-2 in 1995, still losing to Air Force and UCLA but beating Arizona State and Utah.

The rumor around campus that I heard at the time was that the coaches knew that the Oline was going to have problems in 1995 and were OK with Walsh going. They told Walsh that his draft stock would not be any higher the next year because of the Oline problems. In short, Walsh was too slow and too sack prone to have succeeded in '95 and Sark was a better option. At least that's what I heard at the time....

SpiffCoug wrote:
I think with a 10-win season he'll fall somewhere among the Kevin Feteriks and John Walshes of BYU lore. We'll look back and think, "Gee, they weren't too bad. Still, it never felt like they were that good either."



It will take a herculean effort (like 11+ wins [just 8 QBs here], a 165+ PER [only 5 QBs in that club], 35+ TDs [only45 QBs in this club], 4000+ yards [only 4 QBs have reached that level], etc.) to change his standing.



I think he's got a decent chance of reaching some of those effort levels and probably a better chance than most think. But in all likelihood, his career legacy will be much more Walsh-like than Young-like.

This post captures my feelings on the matter but communicates it much more effectively.



Riley doesn't really compare well with other BYU quarterbacks. He kind of reminds me of Doman. If he has a great senior year, I would argue that Riley should be held in the same esteem as Doman. If he has a repeat of his junior year...I think Feterik is probably a fair comparison.



Riley is hard to describe - he is a gamer that makes things happen - but leaves a sense of concern as you watch him throw the ball and worry over some of his decisions. There is much more evidence to suggest that he will succeed...so I am not sure why I still worry.

I know why you still worry. Doman had Staley and a solid OL. I forget what receivers Doman had and which FB and TEs. He probably had a better supporting cast on offense. It may turn out that Riley has better receivers and a better defense. Definitely, a tougher schedule.



I do not recall Special Teams play un support of Doman. Due to experience, ST should improve by being more consistent in 2012.



Nelson tries to carry the team on his back at times due to the above and then worries about over-reaching or about injury creap in.



He is scrappy like McMahon - arm does not compare - legs are a little better, though MAC had decent wheels for scrambling and broken play running.



Nelson does not have the broad shoulders of Young or McMahon and probably not the supporting cast. And if Nelson goes down like MAC did for a couple of games, it will not be a sophomore named Steve Young pitching in relief.



Anyway, I possibly the strongest Riley Nelson supporter and apologist other than his mother or little brother, have these worries.



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Why did you leave out his "little sister?" :-)

dmcougar wrote:
Why did you leave out his "little sister?" :-)

Didn't want to piss you off again now that we are best buddies.



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