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Bronco's 8-10 year "prospectus"

by KingCoug · 5/1/2012

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KingCoug
A few years ago, former player Ben Criddle talked about Bronco's 8-10 year "prospectus." In short, he said when Bronco took over as head coach, he figured he needed 8-10 years to get BYU to a national title.



So far, Bronco has 66-24 (.733) overall record, as well as two conference titles and 5 out of 7 bowl wins. However, the record against BCS/ranked opponents is 12-19 (.387). And one or two blowout losses each year have been an ongoing problem. The Ute blowout loss last year is nearly unforgivable.



The 2012 will be Bronco's 8th season. I still believe in Bronco, and have always been one of his biggest defenders, but much of my view of him as a coach comes down to the next few seasons. Heck, I'll even give him through 2015 (one extra year) just to get us to a BCS bowl. But we need to see a breakthrough.



My 2 cents.
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rblack
Bronco has the best winning percentage of any coach in BYU history. That record is against better competetion than any coach faced with the possible exception of Crowton. The recruiting advantages that BYU held through the majority of the Edwards years have diminished or been eliminated. BYU no longer has the Ricks JC advantage. BYU no longer has the Hawaii pipeline. I took Lavell Edwards 13 years to win a national championship. Mendenhall is the only coach that BYU has ever had that has a winning bowl record.

With those facts in front of us, what is the benefit to giving up on Bronco after 10 or 11 years. Do you really think that, somewhere out there, there is a coach that meets the requirements for the BYU coaching position, wants to coach at BYU for less than the market rate, is willing to put up with nutty fans and is capable of fielding a competetive team with constraints such as missionary service, honor code and limited player selection? If there is such a coach, I don't know who they are.

I say be thankful for what we have, cheer loud and have fun.

(besides, my son is going to BYU as soon as his mission is done and he has never been to a BYU game in person - football or basketball - where BYU did not win)
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KingCoug
rblack wrote:
Bronco has the best winning percentage of any coach in BYU history. That record is against better competetion than any coach faced with the possible exception of Crowton. The recruiting advantages that BYU held through the majority of the Edwards years have diminished or been eliminated. BYU no longer has the Ricks JC advantage. BYU no longer has the Hawaii pipeline. I took Lavell Edwards 13 years to win a national championship. Mendenhall is the only coach that BYU has ever had that has a winning bowl record.

With those facts in front of us, what is the benefit to giving up on Bronco after 10 or 11 years. Do you really think that, somewhere out there, there is a coach that meets the requirements for the BYU coaching position, wants to coach at BYU for less than the market rate, is willing to put up with nutty fans and is capable of fielding a competetive team with constraints such as missionary service, honor code and limited player selection? If there is such a coach, I don't know who they are.

I say be thankful for what we have, cheer loud and have fun.

(besides, my son is going to BYU as soon as his mission is done and he has never been to a BYU game in person - football or basketball - where BYU did not win)


It's not that I'll give up on Bronco. My hopes from him being a "great" coach to "very good" coach may be the difference.
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Lawboy
I want to be on record staing that Bronco is a great defensive coach. Elite perhaps. He has done well,with lesser talent because he can scheme. And the talent is getting there too . Once he gets d-line players that are as good as the LBs, BYU takes off.



TheO under Bronco as been the issue. Scoring vs top defenses has been a chore.(personally, I blame poor Oline play). Once that issue gets resolved, we take the next step. Look at TCU, Utah and BSU. In there top years, they had great defense, but could also score against anyone too.
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Cougarfan87
Lawboy wrote:
I want to be on record staing that Bronco is a great defensive coach. Elite perhaps. He has done well,with lesser talent because he can scheme. And the talent is getting there too . Once he gets d-line players that are as good as the LBs, BYU takes off.



TheO under Bronco as been the issue. Scoring vs top defenses has been a chore.(personally, I blame poor Oline play). Once that issue gets resolved, we take the next step. Look at TCU, Utah and BSU. In there top years, they had great defense, but could also score against anyone too.


And in years BYU has been really good, they have also had great Oline play. We cannot understimate how much the Oline affects the game. I concur that with Oline play improving to stop the speedy defenses we face today, instead of run stopping defenses of yesteryear, BYU takes another great step forward.
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Isola
The SEC has won 7 of the last 10 BCS National Championships and the last 6 in a row. The Big 12, Pac-12 and Big Ten each have one. The Big East, ACC, MWC, WAC, CUSA, SBC all have none, and yet you give Bronco 10 years to win a National Championship before you give up on him? How generous.
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CrimsonCoug
Isola wrote:
The SEC has won 7 of the last 10 BCS National Championships and the last 6 in a row. The Big 12, Pac-12 and Big Ten each have one. The Big East, ACC, MWC, WAC, CUSA, SBC all have none, and yet you give Bronco 10 years to win a National Championship before you give up on him? How generous.

+1



These undercurrents of comments that somehow Bronco's job is on shaky ground seem to be coming from those with athletic alzheimers. Except for the 1996 and 2001 seasons, BYU football had been under-performing on and off the field. Now Bronco has them doing remarkably well in both spheres year in and year out, but somehow his credibility is questioned. That's just silly.



I hope Bronco will be around for a long, long time. That doesn't mean that I give up my fan's rights to scratch my head at some decisions and do some navel-gazing over improbable could-have-beens, or even wonder if we've hit our ceiling, but Bronco's welcome as long as he wants to stay, and when he's gone, we'll mourn his loss.



I don't see Doman or anyone else being able to do as well as Coach Mendenhall has. He's unique. And I appreciate that uniqueness.
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YNot
BYU has finished in the top 25 in five of the last six years. Three of those years saw BYU in the top 15. That is a pretty good track record.



BYU is right near the borderline of a top-25 program when it comes to revenues, fan support, stadium and market size, etc. But, BYU does not historically finish in the top 25 in recruiting classes. The challenges are obvious. Despite all of the headaches around being BYU and dealing with missions, the honor code, and everything that comes with being an LDS church school, we are seeing success. In fact, Bronco has embraced BYU's overall mission and led us to great success.



Do we all want a BCS bowl game bid? Definitely. But, is it time to despair because BYU hosted Idaho and New Mexico St. at LES last November in its first season of independence? Absolutely not.



I love the direction Bronco has taken the program and I am thrilled at the future of BYU football independence (including the future schedules).
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Isola
I am glad to see some people agreeing with me.



I am as much of a fan as anyone. I want BYU to win a National Championship as anyone, but I understand that it is highly unlikely.



And BYU under Bronco has been quite good. Many schools would kill to have our last 7 years. And I doubt BYU could replace BYU with anyone near as good as Bronco right now.
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CougarClaw
Isola wrote:
The SEC has won 7 of the last 10 BCS National Championships and the last 6 in a row. The Big 12, Pac-12 and Big Ten each have one. The Big East, ACC, MWC, WAC, CUSA, SBC all have none, and yet you give Bronco 10 years to win a National Championship before you give up on him? How generous.




:lol: :lol: :lol:
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KingCoug
Isola wrote:
The SEC has won 7 of the last 10 BCS National Championships and the last 6 in a row. The Big 12, Pac-12 and Big Ten each have one. The Big East, ACC, MWC, WAC, CUSA, SBC all have none, and yet you give Bronco 10 years to win a National Championship before you give up on him? How generous.


I'll "give" him however long he's at BYU. Although how much longer past the next, say, 5 years is a question. But if we're still hovering where we have been for some time now - the best non-AQ team to never reach the BCS - my hopes for more will probably have faded. Remember, the 8-10 years was Bronco's own timeline, according to Criddle. Not just some arbitrary number I came up with.
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Isola
KingCoug wrote:
The SEC has won 7 of the last 10 BCS National Championships and the last 6 in a row. The Big 12, Pac-12 and Big Ten each have one. The Big East, ACC, MWC, WAC, CUSA, SBC all have none, and yet you give Bronco 10 years to win a National Championship before you give up on him? How generous.


I'll "give" him however long he's at BYU. Although how much longer past the next, say, 5 years is a question. But if we're still hovering where we have been for some time now - the best non-AQ team to never reach the BCS - my hopes for more will probably have faded. Remember, the 8-10 years was Bronco's own timeline, according to Criddle. Not just some arbitrary number I came up with.

I respect Bronco for having a plan and laying out a time table, but due to the odds against him I am hardly going to be concerned if he doesn't meet it.



The other thing, and I am inferring here so I apologize if I am reading you wrong, but your "hovering" comment sounds like the guy who asked Greg Wrubell in his chat today if the program had "flatlined".



BYU hasn't achieved the successes that we all want them to, but they are have been close. In 2009 BYU was eligible for an at-large BCS invite, but didn't get one. In 2006-2008 they were on the cusp of being eligible for an at-large invite. Even in the down year Bronco still led the team to a winning record and bowl win.



BCS bowl years are usually catching lightning in a bottle. Bronco has a better record than Whittingham, but the later has caught lightning in a bottle once. For all of Patterson's success at TCU he has only done it once and that is with much more fertile recruiting grounds.



Bronco has BYU close and if he keeps it up then one of these years he will probably caught that lightning in the bottle.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
I want to be on record staing that Bronco is a great defensive coach. Elite perhaps.

I would say, in the average year, that BYU has the 4th-best defense out of TCU, Utah, and Boise State. Really, just compare Bronco's D to Patterson's. TCU has made a name from finishing in the Top 5 in the nation in defense. BYU is pumped if we are Top 30. Shut-outs are a rare thing for BYU, even against lower-WAC-level opponents and I-AA teams. And sometimes they just plain give up, like how they quit at home against Utah last year.
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SpiffCoug
I'm not impressed by TCU's impressive defensive statistics that they inflate by holding down weak MWC bottom feeding opponents. Just like I'm not impressed by BYU's impressive offensive stats, because we all know that BYU only plays well against really bad teams.



In 2010, TCU had the #1 total defense, #1 passing defense and #5 rushing defense. But when they finally went up against a good team like Wisconsin, they gave up 225 yards rushing.



No MWC team could ever be good because they just feast on a poor in-conference schedule.
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Guest
snoscythe wrote:
I'm not impressed by TCU's impressive defensive statistics that they inflate by holding down weak MWC bottom feeding opponents. Just like I'm not impressed by BYU's impressive offensive stats, because we all know that BYU only plays well against really bad teams.



In 2010, TCU had the #1 total defense, #1 passing defense and #5 rushing defense. But when they finally went up against a good team like Wisconsin, they gave up 225 yards rushing.



No MWC team could ever be good because they just feast on a poor in-conference schedule.
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pjmuli
One key difference between Bronco and Lavell is their individual starting points. Bronco did inherit a program that was down...but one that has a national brand, good facilities, a 65,000 seat stadium, and a devoted fan base. Lavell inherited a program that was basically nothing.



That being said...I do feel that Bronco is the best head coach BYU has ever had. I had total and complete faith in Bronco up until Hall's senior season.



Since that point, my confidence is starting to fade because of the one obvious pattern of weakness...the inexplicable, blowout losses. When we lose, we usually lose big...and we usually lose big on really big stages.



I think if we didn't have two or three losses like this per year - where we basically appear to be outcoached - I would still be 100% Bronco. It's not that we lose games...it is the manner in which the team looks completely incompetent due to coaching.



Finally, I think Bronco is a defensive genius. We only need to score one more point...and in general, when he is in charge, the defense gives the offense plenty of chances.
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SpiffCoug
One key difference between Bronco and LaVell is they basically coach different sports. College football has changed and grown so much since the early 1970s.
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Lawboy
Mars wrote:
I want to be on record staing that Bronco is a great defensive coach. Elite perhaps.

I would say, in the average year, that BYU has the 4th-best defense out of TCU, Utah, and Boise State. Really, just compare Bronco's D to Patterson's. TCU has made a name from finishing in the Top 5 in the nation in defense. BYU is pumped if we are Top 30. Shut-outs are a rare thing for BYU, even against lower-WAC-level opponents and I-AA teams. And sometimes they just plain give up, like how they quit at home against Utah last year.


And I would point out that all 3 of the teams that you named had better individual talent than BYU had over Bronco's 7 years--especially in the secondary, yet BYU was able to compete with all of them, only the BYU O caused major issues and sputtered in those games(hello turnovers).



Bronco can scheme, and he knows how to use his personnel and hide weaknesses, which BYU has had more of than the other 3. The talent on D for BYU is just showing up, in particular in the secondary, where Utah, TCU and BSU all have had massive advantages over BYU in the past 7 years. Massive.



The #1 reason I am most excited for BYU football in 2012 is because we will have the best defensive secondary BYU has had since 1996, and it might even be a better overall group than that unit.
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scott715
The difference between them is that Lavell had better assistant coaches who went on to big things. bronco's don'e measure up at least not yet.
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Gunk
I think we have 1 or 2 threads a year on this topic.



Bronco is a solid, top 30% head coach. Is he elite? Nope. That said, he's still relatively young in his career, especially as a HC.



My biggest beef, the priority placed on football. We appear to be regressing a bit, particularly in offense. We come out flat and under prepared against top-caliber teams and come out amped to put a smack-down on Idaho State Whatever University.



Our players aren't prepared and with the exception to the OU game, play timid on the big stage. That points to coaching in my book and a lack of priority. Yes, "all games are important"...blah, blah, blah...but not all games are equal.



Bottomline, I hope Bronco stays, but more importantly I hope Bronco learns from his mistakes, and if a better coach were to come along I think BYU would be foolish not to take them.
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