The Dilemma of Our Time [Long/Mormon-Religious]

As I read the Book of Mormon--a book "written for our day," I notice more and more the absence of any mention of what we may feel are the "big" issues of our day. It doesn't really deal with gay marriage, abortion, pornography, or any of those types of, for lack of a better word, 'sexy' billboard sins. Instead, it's a book about the pride cycle that repeatedly focuses on the proper usage of wealth as an litmus test of both personal and societal righteousness. If one then looks at our society, it becomes a bit clearer what the larger message of the book is--if the moral of the parable of the widow's mite is that, when it comes to our accountability for our wealth and means, we are judged based not on what we give, but on what we retain for ourselves, and if a Zion people has no poor among them, how will modern American society be judged?



What is somewhat frightening is to go back and re-read some talks from today's prophets where the economic message is relayed, but too often mistaken as a general rah-rah speech. But that leads to an even more real danger. The Progressive movement offers a fool's gold remedy--turn everything over to the government and let them solve it for us. It is a sinister movement that asks us to cede our liberty and agency in exchange for security--something evil that claims to be Christian at its heart.



And therein lies the paradox--we live in a time when too many have ceded problem solving to Washington, and a time where we are told at every turn that we have "earned" this or we "deserve" that--as if the impoverished or less well-off somehow have not worked as hard. The right emphasizes liberty and personal accomplishment, but avoids any spectre of telling people what they should do with their money, and the left would take their liberty and their money. In the end, the message of true Christian stewardship over wealth and means falls in between, and the marketers whisper sweet nothings in our ears and steer us away from covenants of consecration, urging us to hold a little more back because "we've worked hard" or "we deserve this." This is something societal, that needs to be fixed societally--on a person-by-person basis, but the danger comes in that so many who see the problem get swept up in the illusion of the progressive movement--a movement that asks men to put their trust in man-made solutions and institutions rather than in God, and which has been identified by modern prophets as a secret combination (here's a good spot to read 2 Nephi 26:20-25).



In sum, the Book of Mormon and the prophets warn time and again of this danger, but nevertheless it is a sin that exists in the blindspot of most and even many who do recognize it instead find themselves captured by the snare of the progressive "solution" born of evil. And that is, in my humble view, the dilemma of our time.



See: 1 Nephi 22:23; 2 Nephi 9:30,51, 26:20-31, 28:12-13; Jacob 2:13-19,21; Mosiah 4:16-18,21-23; Alma 1:26-32, 4:6-15, 5:53-56, 16:15-16,21, 31:24-30, 34:28-29,40, 60:32; Helaman 3:33-36, 4:11-12, 6:17, 7:20-21, 12:1-3, 13:21-22,27-28; 3 Nephi 6:10-15, 24:5, 26:19; 4 Nephi 1:3,24-26,43; Mormon 8:35-41; Doctrine and Covenants 6:7, 11:7, 38:26, 49:19-20, 52:40, 56:16-19, 59:17-20, 70:14, 78:5-6, 82:17-19, 104:14-18, 105:3, 117:4, 121:34-37; Moses 7:18.

I've pondered this very subject quite a bit. I feel there is no right/left paradigm. Instead both the left and the right feel they can solve the issues we face if they have enough money. Often the only difference between the two parties is who benefits from the money that is taken by taxes.



But you are certainly right that as a society we have turned to government as a "god" who can solve problems and to whom we should all be required to pay tribute. Too many have willingly submitted to the flesh of man as a problem solver, when in reality the only way our republic can survive is by returning to God. It's much easier to accept a hand-out from the government rather than one's family or religious organization.



I also do NOT think that it was a coincident that the first presidency released "The Family

A Proclamation to the World" when they did. Ever since, the family has been constantly under attack. I think many have become convinced that it is "the state" that is responsible for raising children.

Well, it does take a village...

I love these types of topics. Great read for a Sunday.



So, you're reasoning that the Book of Mormon omits today's "issues" because the philosophies from the right and the left subtly solicit a more salacious danger? I like that explanation and I like the application even more to political treatise of the day, but you would have thought some of these major issues deserved a mention. I mean, this stuff seems more serious than the "wars and rumors of wars" mentioned time and time again.



I heard an addiction counselor speak at a conference on Pornography who estimated that the problem in the church (since it thrives on secrecy) could easily be 50% of all active church members. Or some horrendously large figure. Take into account the re-wiring that habit does to a male brain, I find it hard to believe the BOM didn't mention that one. or Gay marriage. i believe both of these topics have the potential to completely alter functioning society as we know it, and not in a good way.



Lucifer has successfully marginalized the church for so many years and now that the church has finally hit mainstream, he's moved "mainstream" in a direction we won't go (while I wouldn't be shocked if there was an Official declaration-3 regarding gay marriage; it does seem pretty unlikely). Anyways, I still think these two issues merited mention, so I love the question attempting to answer "why not".

My observations from where I sit. I currently live in Utah County so my observations are limited to that geography. That being said, Utah County is considered to be something of a conservative LDS stronghold.



The number one sin I observe is pride in our own intellect. Even though, the people of this area consider themselves strong in the church and of conservative republican values, they are deeply saturated with pride in their ability to use their "education and understanding" to accept progressive tenets over God given principles.



Also, Please, the use of the "right, moderate, left" categorizations is based on a complete falsehood. There is no such thing as right and left politics. There is republican and democrat, more government and less government, more freedom and less freedom, constitutionally conservative and progressive, less righteous and more righteous but there is no left and right. These are fictional terms perpetuated by a media that wants to deceive people away from real understanding of the issues.



As far as moral issues of our time and the Book of Mormon, I think it covers it quite adequately. What more can be said about it other than don't do it, stop it? The scriptures as a whole deal more with politics than they do morality. But unfortunately, it has become tabu to mention anything of a political nature in church.



Besides, I do not believe we have seen the worst of our time. The so-called progressive movement is by far the most dangerous trend in America and in the church. We may yet see a time when our primary focus is upon our own survival as a people.

Mars wrote:


"42". -Deep Thought

:lol: :lol:



I'd rather be happy than right anyday, wouldn't you? - Slartibartfast

On the pornography number--your number is a bit low. I have a friend who works for the church, and her job is to research pornography usage by church members. For adult men the number who have or have had problems (either obsession or addiction) is over 80%. For deacon age boys, it's right around 50%.

Maybe the Amish have it ritght with no technology and no porn.

Pornography has to be the most stupid, brain-dead, and unmanly addiction there is. It is pathetic that a man would convince himself that he has some sort of relationship with women whom he cannot touch or speak to and do not respond to him. They are two dimensional images. I suppose the justifications are that he does not have sex with them and they do not tell on him. These of course are lame because it still damages his mind and spirit. Such habits have to make a man less of a man by any definition. Though I do not condone it, I think it would be more honest and healthier for a man to have an affair with a real woman than an addiction to pictures.



Pornography is like paying cash for a sports car but when the salesman hands you the keys you tell him to keep it because you don't want to drive it home, all you want is to take home a picture of it.



Pornography produces cowards.

Sno: virtually all Mormon men use porn. (*slight* extrapolation. ;))



tww: Mormons are stupid, brain-dead, unmanly and pathetic except for me because I don't use porn.



did I get that right?

CougarClaw wrote:
Sno: virtually all Mormon men use porn. (*slight* extrapolation. ;))



tww: Mormons are stupid, brain-dead, unmanly and pathetic except for me because I don't use porn.



did I get that right?

You might have forgotten "cowardly" - or that Mormon men ought to actually cheat on their wife, rather than only emotionally and spiritually cheating on them...

Sno thanks for posting. I love the Book of Mormon. I often feel chastised by its messages to beware pride, to be charitable, and to endure to the end, whenever that might be. In the end, the task of salvation is personal and there is no substitute, governmental, cultural, or political to replace humility and the wise and righteous exercise of agency, at least as I see it. that does not mean man cannot group itself to address pressing issues, whether it is to care for the environment or the poor and disabled. These efforts are not in replacement of the need for each of us to choose well, but perhaps because not enough of us do in fact choose well enough. I'm no philosopher so perhaps I'm way off, but those are my musings. I may not know a lot but one thing for which I have certainty is in the Book of Mormon and its message for us and for me personally.

ABYUFAN wrote:

Sno: virtually all Mormon men use porn. (*slight* extrapolation. ;))



tww: Mormons are stupid, brain-dead, unmanly and pathetic except for me because I don't use porn.



did I get that right?

You might have forgotten "cowardly" - or that Mormon men ought to actually cheat on their wife, rather than only emotionally and spiritually cheating on them...

If you sensed a little ire then you are correct. Suffice it to say, been there done that. So I will say again, it is stupid. If you won't heed my warning then let me know in a few years how it is going for you.

tww wrote:

CougarClaw wrote:
Sno: virtually all Mormon men use porn. (*slight* extrapolation. ;))



tww: Mormons are stupid, brain-dead, unmanly and pathetic except for me because I don't use porn.



did I get that right?

You might have forgotten "cowardly" - or that Mormon men ought to actually cheat on their wife, rather than only emotionally and spiritually cheating on them...

If you sensed a little ire then you are correct. Suffice it to say, been there done that. So I will say again, it is stupid. If you won't heed my warning then let me know in a few years how it is going for you.

Oh I agree it's stupid, although I'm not sure that people would be better off just doing the dirty with someone else...

Which sin isn't stupid? Besides of course the ones that society has now decided isn't a sin at all...?



All men (and women) are weak, cowardly, and stupid because they all suffer from sin. And all giving in to sin is weak, cowardly and stupid.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:

Sno: virtually all Mormon men use porn. (*slight* extrapolation. ;))



tww: Mormons are stupid, brain-dead, unmanly and pathetic except for me because I don't use porn.



did I get that right?

You might have forgotten "cowardly" - or that Mormon men ought to actually cheat on their wife, rather than only emotionally and spiritually cheating on them...

If you sensed a little ire then you are correct. Suffice it to say, been there done that. So I will say again, it is stupid. If you won't heed my warning then let me know in a few years how it is going for you.

Oh I agree it's stupid, although I'm not sure that people would be better off just doing the dirty with someone else...

No, I'm pretty sure doing the dirty with someone else can lead to a whole lot more problems than porn.

Brigham Young and Joseph Smith said essentially that living prophets were more valuable than the scripture books, but I'm sure that couldn't apply in the case of modern issues such as pornography. ;)



I do think the constant emphasis of the BOM suggests (which you hinted at) that if people took care of pride and these related sins that the specific stuff of our modern world wouldn't be such a problem. I mean, isn't avoiding the talk with the Bishop about pornography essentially a problem of pride? And if men would do that at the first instance, wouldn't many problems of addiction be avoided? Of course, I realize the problem is more complex in some situations, such as early teen exposure and addiction; but I believe the failure there is the teen's parents' and the leaders. You need to talk to kids about it earlier than you used to (well, maybe---probably should have been talking to kids about it earlier ever since dirty magazines/photos have been around, period. But I don't necessarily blame older generations for not realizing that.).

Sammich wrote:
Brigham Young and Joseph Smith said essentially that living prophets were more valuable than the scripture books, but I'm sure that couldn't apply in the case of modern issues such as pornography. ;)



I do think the constant emphasis of the BOM suggests (which you hinted at) that if people took care of pride and these related sins that the specific stuff of our modern world wouldn't be such a problem. I mean, isn't avoiding the talk with the Bishop about pornography essentially a problem of pride? And if men would do that at the first instance, wouldn't many problems of addiction be avoided? Of course, I realize the problem is more complex in some situations, such as early teen exposure and addiction; but I believe the failure there is the teen's parents' and the leaders. You need to talk to kids about it earlier than you used to (well, maybe---probably should have been talking to kids about it earlier ever since dirty magazines/photos have been around, period. But I don't necessarily blame older generations for not realizing that.).

Totally agree. That is what living Prophets are for--to take those standards set forth in the scriptures (the doctrinal cannon) and help us apply those principles to the specific problems we face today. Pornography is a huge issue. It is hard to have confidence before the Lord is we haven't let virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Unfortunately, I did not know how rampant pornography addiction was until I became a Bishop.



I plan on talking to my kids about it when they reach around 11 or 12 years old. Talking about it too early can spark curiousity--which I also became aware of as a Bishop. That can be just as damaging.