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Reasons to complain

by KingCoug · 4/29/2012

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K
KingCoug
Legit reasons to complain...



1. Bronco/BYU not going undefeated or winning enough BCS/ranked opponents.

2. Games where we get blown out of the water.





Lame reasons to complain...



1. No Spring game.

2. Not enough BYU players drafted to NFL.





That is all. Carry on.
C
cougman
KingCoug wrote:
Legit reasons to complain...



1. Bronco/BYU not going undefeated or winning enough BCS/ranked opponents.

2. Games where we get blown out of the water.





Lame reasons to complain...



1. No Spring game.

2. Not enough BYU players drafted to NFL.





That is all. Carry on.


Hmmm.
R
rblack
Let's say we have a 4 star offensive line recruit. Do you think he won't notice that we couldn't develop Reynolds into a pro prospect? Do you think that someone considering transferring won't notice that we failed to place anyone into the NFL draft this year. I agree, in the broad scheme of things, it is not reason for concern because, we have some great prospects that are coming out in the next few years. However, the discussion is by no means lame.
1
1967cougar
I just finished reading "The Undaunted" about the Hole In The Rock expedition. For some strange reason, I don't think any of us on this board will ever have a valid reason to complain. Perspective.
B
BYUNLVFAN
Lame reason #2 is the reason for legit reasons #1 and 2. Lack of initial talent combined with a lack of player development is a bad combination.



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M
Mars


It must just be a coincidence that Boise State wins a lot at a high level and has had 9 NFL draft picks in the past 2 years. Just a coincidence...
L
Lawboy
BSU has 2 first rounders this year too. And Moore went undrafted.



IF BYU wants to win at a high level, they need to develop players at a high level. It simply is not happening. BYU has had 6 players drafted since 2006. That is less than 1 per year, and none the last 2 drafts running. 2013 looks spars as well, unless--heaven forbid--KVN leaves early.



And with the track record BYU has had recently, I;d be shocked if KVN did not leave early. Collie did it, Unga had to, but both got drafted. Reynolds story is a cautionary tale for BYU players now.



BYU simply struggles to develop elite players.
S
Schmoe
You do have to ask yourself, however, which is cause and which is effect. Do players get noticed more when their team is successful? Are the teams successful because they're loaded with NFL talent? Or is it a combination of the two?
D
Dcr36
1967cougar wrote:
I just finished reading "The Undaunted" about the Hole In The Rock expedition. For some strange reason, I don't think any of us on this board will ever have a valid reason to complain. Perspective.


Yep.



I don't like making this point because there's no real reason to do it without sounding holier-than-thou, but the dissatisfaction level of BYU fans really gets overbearing sometimes. People watch sports for recreation. To momentarily take a break from real-life pressures and have something else to hold your attention.



It's one thing to identify program shortcomings or be frustrated with decisions the coaches or players makes. It's another thing to rack up hundreds of posts and dozens of hours online doing nothing more than talking about how much BYU football has failed you in recent years. I don't see how that's fun or pleasantly distracting for anybody, and accordingly I don't see how that's a good use of time.
C
Cougarbib
KingCoug wrote:
Legit reasons to complain...



1. Bronco/BYU not going undefeated or winning enough BCS/ranked opponents.

2. Games where we get blown out of the water.





Lame reasons to complain...



1. No Spring game.

2. Not enough BYU players drafted to NFL.





That is all. Carry on.


Do you really not get the connection between having experienced NFL talent and going undefeated?



We are recruiting great student athletes with character who are usually white, occasionally Polynesian, and rarely African American. That has advantages and disadvantages. We always lost top LDS recruits at times to USC and other big-time programs. Lately, we are losing them to Utah and others. We once dominated the Poly Pipeline. Now we do not.



Other programs recruit athletes. That comes with problems on and off the field. Being a good student with solid character is not required at most schools.



We need to embrace who we are, humble ourselves, and enjoy the accomplishments of these fine young men.



Hopefully we will get some pleasant surprises at RB, FB, TE, OL, and back-up QB this season and enjoy another fun and rewarding season even with the tough early schedule.



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M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
You do have to ask yourself, however, which is cause and which is effect. Do players get noticed more when their team is successful? Are the teams successful because they're loaded with NFL talent? Or is it a combination of the two?

Well, BYU beat Utah State this year and finished with more wins, and USU had 3 players drafted, so...
B
BroncoBot
Pretty small sample size you've got there Mars.
G
Gucci33
KingCoug wrote:
Legit reasons to complain...



1. Bronco/BYU not going undefeated or winning enough BCS/ranked opponents.

2. Games where we get blown out of the water.





Lame reasons to complain...



1. No Spring game.

2. Not enough BYU players drafted to NFL.





That is all. Carry on.




Strongly disagree, if I am a top athlete lds or not BYU is not a 1st or 2nd option but more of a fall back option.
J
jonnylingo
If the NFL is my goal, I don't pick BYU. If I want to play football in a great atmosphere and get a good education an become a better person, then I pick BYU.
K
KingCoug
Cougarbib2 wrote:




Do you really not get the connection between having experienced NFL talent and going undefeated?


I do think there's a connection. Just not as big of one as people are assuming. In other words, I don't think how many NFL drafts we have is necessarily the best indicator of the state of the program. Or even a good indicator.
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G
Guest
jonnylingo wrote:
If the NFL is my goal, I don't pick BYU. If I want to play football in a great atmosphere and get a good education an become a better person, then I pick BYU.


Same with a mission. If going to the NFL is my top priority, a mission is flat out. It's way too much of a hindrance.
G
Gucci33
hawkwing wrote:
If the NFL is my goal, I don't pick BYU. If I want to play football in a great atmosphere and get a good education an become a better person, then I pick BYU.


Same with a mission. If going to the NFL is my top priority, a mission is flat out. It's way too much of a hindrance.


I agree
1
1967cougar
Dcr36 wrote:
I just finished reading "The Undaunted" about the Hole In The Rock expedition. For some strange reason, I don't think any of us on this board will ever have a valid reason to complain. Perspective.


Yep.



I don't like making this point because there's no real reason to do it without sounding holier-than-thou, but the dissatisfaction level of BYU fans really gets overbearing sometimes. People watch sports for recreation. To momentarily take a break from real-life pressures and have something else to hold your attention.



It's one thing to identify program shortcomings or be frustrated with decisions the coaches or players makes. It's another thing to rack up hundreds of posts and dozens of hours online doing nothing more than talking about how much BYU football has failed you in recent years. I don't see how that's fun or pleasantly distracting for anybody, and accordingly I don't see how that's a good use of time.


I keep thinking back to the day Shawn Bradley said he would go pro and not return to BYU for his Sophomore season. The radio talk shows were humming that day. Of course, I was an eager listener. But after an hour or so of calls from upset people, some guy called in and simply said, "Has everyone forgotten. It's just a game." More perspective.



When it comes the holier-than-thou stuff, I agree with you. It can seem to come off that way and I'm sorry if it did. The Good Lord knows I have waaaaay too far to go to be considered such. And although this is just (CougarCorner and BYU sports)an outlet for us fans to pursue to get our daily "fix" of whatever it is that's makes us what we are (sports fanatics!), it's a good healthy outlet.



I'm thankful for the many knowledgeable posters out there who help feed my addiction. I hang on their every word. But, at the end of the day, it's really just a game. Family, employment, Church service, and trashing Utes are much more important to each of us. I would hate to miss seeing any game this upcoming year. But if it's five minutes to kickoff and the Bishop calls and asks me to help someone unload a U-Haul "right now," I'll be unloading a U-Haul (with earphones in, of course).
L
Lawboy
I guess it all comes down to what your expectation level is for BYU football, doesn't it. And my expectation level is for BYU to be better than it has been under Bronco since 2006 if a couple of areas.



First is NFL players drafted. Whether BYU fans and personnel want to to admit it or not, it matters. It is a validation of the programs ability to recruit and develop top tier talent. It validates the coaching and personnel to recruits. And we all know that recruits are the life blood of the program. And what we are seeing is the poor recruiting efforts and HC issues from 2005-2007 classes.



To put into context of NFL Draft picks, from 2006 to present, here is a sample I looked up:



BYU 7

Utah 17

TCU 20

Boise State 17 (6 in 2012)



Others:

Utah State 6 (3 in 2012 draft)

Weber State 5

ASU- 18

UCLA- 13

BC- 13



So BYU, over the sample period, has had roughly the same number of players drafted as USU and Weber freaking State. Look, I do not expect BYU to be a USC, Bama, OU or Texas. BYU will never be an NFL factory like those schools. But why can BYU not do what Utah, TCU and BSU have done, especially when our recruiting classes have been similar to theirs over the same time period?



I think BYU should average about 3 per year over a 5-7 year sample, much like Utah and TCU have. I do not think it is unrealistic. What is unreal to me is the fact that BYU, with its massive recruiting advantages, has done as well as USU and Weber State at developing the talent they bring in. That to me is unfathomable.



My 2nd point is about marquee wins. Utah has them, TCU has them and BSU has them--all on the road. I suppose BYU has 2 under Bronco--@TCU in 2006, and vs OU in 2009. Otherwise, none to get pumped over, unless beating mediocre PAC teams in the LV Bowl does it for you. The troubling part is that in most big games, BYU has laid a MASSIVE egg under Bronco. Think TCU in 2008-2011. FSU 2009. Utah 2008, 2011. Not just losses, but suffocating losses. The lack of overall elite players show up most when playing other schools with elite players. BYU does great against weak sisters and pile drives them--as they should. But BYU has shown an inability to "play up" in games vs. elite talent--teams we should compete with--in recent years. This also has to change.



By the way, I think the 2 points are intimately connected.
P
pjmuli
Lawboy wrote:
IF BYU wants to win at a high level, they need to develop players at a high level. It simply is not happening...BYU simply struggles to develop elite players.


Agreed....but BYU under Bronco does a really nice job of developing average/below average talent to good enough players.



I really think the program is plateauing...I am hoping 2012-2013 proves me wrong, but I sure can see BYU losing a lot of the games on this schedule. The Nelson / Alisa / Holt combination [the core of BYU offensive production in good years (QB,RB,TE)] just doesn't seem good enough...nor worthy of NFL draft consideration.
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