I post this against my better judgment

Sorry guys, I don't come here nearly as often as I should, and I'm coming here to be a turd, so that's not exactly helpful.



Anyway, I was made aware that it was the general consensus that I was full of crap when it came to team chemistry with Heaps and Nelson. I'm sorry to hear that, but I understand where people are coming from. I'm not going to throw out any bona fides, because I don't think anything that was shared with me (nothing I have is first hand info) was done so with the anticipation that it be aired. So for that, I am fully understanding if some think I'm full of crap. Maybe I am.



But if I've accrued even an ounce of credibility over the years, trust me when I say that there was more than just a sporting rivalry between Jake and Riley, and especially among those who supported either player. I've heard at least two people close to the program without any real rooting interest use very harsh words when it comes to some of Riley's actions, and especially the actions of at least one other active Riley campaigner (he's a defensive starter). Worse, I think most would agree certain coaches participated, or at least fueled, the rivalry, and once Bronco made an indication as to whom he favored, the balanced shifted abruptly over to Riley. Each person I've tried to corroborate this with has confirmed it to some degree.



And understand that I do not think Jake was necessarily a good option. He made horrible mistakes, and there was certainly things he could have done to be better. I think we all agree that, to a degree, he was at least mismanaged.



But thinking this was simply about Riley working harder than Jake is over-simplifying the situation, and it's unfair to Jake. I wish Jake the best, and I'm 100% behind Riley. And if you think I'm a has-been douche for posting this, then good on ya.



Enjoy.



JL McGregor

Dallas TX

I dunno about a "has-been"..... ;)

McGregor long time no see. Heaps is passe. I think we would like to hear your thoughts on our offensive line this year.

Yeah, I've moved on. My optimism for the future dulls my bad memories.

So, mcgregor, let me get this straight. You've heard that someone else has heard that someone heard that Riley was mean to jake last year...



Why did you post this exactly? Not only hasa this topic been beat to death, the way you're presenting it is almost entirely juvenile. Step up and source it straight up or move on. This is entirely dull unless you provide at least that info. Sources "close to the program" is total BS.

Whether Riley and Brandon Ogletree were mean to Jake or not, it is beside the point. If he had decided to tough it out and redshirt this year, both those guys would be gone next year and the team would be his. Also, if he had attended more then 3 voluntary work outs last summer instead of working with his personal trainer all last year and coming across as a primadonna that is to good to work out for the team, it would have made it harder for Riley to undercut him.

Mcgregor, save your fingers and "reputation". There is no good that can come to you from sharing information from your closely held sources. This site has completely and fully determined how they see the whole heaps situation. Any attempt to raise awareness of something slightly more complex than the simple conclusion that Heaps was horrible at football and totally and completely to blame for his problems and this teams failure will be met with incredulity if not aspersions that you are a whack job. The accusation and double standard that you "must site your sources" or your report will not be believed when so many other posters who have sources claim the same privilege of anonymity, is in itself the extent to which these types of claims that you have made against Riley and in support of Jake to be practically fraudulent. How dare you. Beyond that, had you weighed in last year when this was relevant and hot on this site and not hid behind a tweet that no one could argue with you, you would have been labeled Jake's little sister. Now you defy any and all reason and have further fettered away your already questionable reputation that became so when you tweeted your nefarious notion last year that there was more going on regarding the Nelson/Heaps war.

As can seen by some of the impish responses that this was simply about players being "mean" to poor little Jakey-jake is the myopia that exists by fans who can't fathom that Bronco or Doman mismanaged this situation and yes, difficult to manage player. Further, any thought that the new hero and savior of last season has any dirt on his hands is now irrelevant. These are our heroes now and the goat has moved on, referred to as a "quitter" by many on this site, pinned with all the bad and blame that we needed to purge from our byu program (oh wait, except for our poorly performing Oline) We need to think of BD as our future, and not attend to his recent ownnership of part of the problems last year, namely that his own rookie mistakes caused this team to struggle. Credit is due for taking some responsibility and being transparent, but a little late. But hey, jake has long since been thrown under the bus and has healed sufficiently that the delayed accountability by BD is benign at worst.

So when players throw you under the bus. And coaches silence throws you under the bus; and Bronco's penchant for blue-collar players; and the scheme fails to deliver what BD said it would, why would Jake not leave? Personally I wish he would have stayed, but sometimes a fresh start to meet future goals may have in fact been far better.

Thanks a lot Mcgregor. I had to get therapy and medication bc of the whole Heaps thing and now you have stirred it all back up. I think your tweets should be extricated from this site--wait, did that already happen? I haven't seen any tweets from you in a while. ;-)

Jake was set up to fail. Plain and simple. mismanaged. It was finally too much for him and he had to move in. I suspect he will be quite successful.

jonnylingo wrote:
Jake was set up to fail. Plain and simple. mismanaged. It was finally too much for him and he had to move in. I suspect he will be quite successful.

If Jake was "set up to fail" then he set himself up to fail. Jake could have stayed, worked his tail off and been BYU's starter for 2 years starting in 2013 but he chose to leave. If he was such a great QB, how did he lose his job to some weak armed no name from Logan utah? Anyone who questions unfairness should talk to Chambers and ask themselves what it means to have commitment to BYU.

Yawn. Jake is gone. He did more than enough to contribute to his own failures at BYU.



Good luck to Jake at Kansas.



We've spent enough time on what Jake did and didn't do and what teammates did and didn't do and what coaches did and didn't do.

jonnylingo wrote:
Jake setHimself up to fail. Plain and simple. Hemismanaged his time at byu. It was finally too much for him and he had to move on. I suspect he will be quite Unsuccessful.

There. Fixed it for you Jonny.

frdbtr wrote:

Jake was set up to fail. Plain and simple. mismanaged. It was finally too much for him and he had to move in. I suspect he will be quite successful.

If Jake was "set up to fail" then he set himself up to fail. Jake could have stayed, worked his tail off and been BYU's starter for 2 years starting in 2013 but he chose to leave. If he was such a great QB, how did he lose his job to some weak armed no name from Logan utah? Anyone who questions unfairness should talk to Chambers and ask themselves what it means to have commitment to BYU.

Please. You don't know anything. Comparing Chambers who brought it on himself to Jake is laughable. Jake did his best despite the coaching incompetence and the team being splintered into heaps and nelson supporters. Jake did the best he could. Chambers was a negative influence and couldn't control himself. He deserve all the credit in the world for sticking with it but we all know that he had not other option if he wanted to play football. He was a junior.

mcgregor wrote:
Sorry guys, I don't come here nearly as often as I should, and I'm coming here to be a turd, so that's not exactly helpful. ..But if I've accrued even an ounce of credibility over the years, trust me when I say that there was more than just a sporting rivalry between Jake and Riley, and especially among those who supported either player. I've heard at least two people close to the program without any real rooting interest use very harsh words when it comes to some of Riley's actions, and especially the actions of at least one other active Riley campaigner (he's a defensive starter). Worse, I think most would agree certain coaches participated, or at least fueled, the rivalry, and once Bronco made an indication as to whom he favored, the balanced shifted abruptly over to Riley. Each person I've tried to corroborate this with has confirmed it to some degree.

If you read the article today about Bronco changing his mind regarding the election of team captains...you will note that Riley Nelson decided to sit out of optional summer workouts last year.



Due to McGregor's credibility, and other evidences that seem to point to this reality, I don't doubt this behavior really did occur. It is an important part of the story...but it is only a part.

frdbtr wrote:

Jake was set up to fail. Plain and simple. mismanaged. It was finally too much for him and he had to move in. I suspect he will be quite successful.

If Jake was "set up to fail" then he set himself up to fail. Jake could have stayed, worked his tail off and been BYU's starter for 2 years starting in 2013 but he chose to leave. If he was such a great QB, how did he lose his job to some weak armed no name from Logan utah? Anyone who questions unfairness should talk to Chambers and ask themselves what it means to have commitment to BYU.

Wait. Jake brought on the unfairness he faced but OC did not?

Can you even explain from simply a skills point of view what gave RN a far better chance than JH to salvage last year's offense?

dmcougar wrote:
...This site has completely and fully determined how they see the whole heaps situation. Any attempt to raise awareness of something slightly more complex than the simple conclusion that Heaps was horrible at football and totally and completely to blame for his problems and this teams failure will be met with incredulity if not aspersions that you are a whack job.

Oversimplification make life amazingly convenient...even if it means our perspective of reality is off by a few degrees.



...everyone agrees that Heaps did not perform well enough (early in the season) to retain his starting position. Anyone who thinks that coaching or culture has ZERO impact on his performance is fooling themselves.

Word. Jake did not have the mental toughnesss or veracity as Nelson. Furthermore, he didn't understand the checkdowns and options for hitting secondary and tertiary WR when things got tough. No doubt he throws a beautiful pass and has great form, but he wilted under pressure. The field is littered with players that have outstanding skills but lack mental fortitude, work ethic and leadership to take it to the next level Ryan Leaf, Brady Quinn, J. Russell to name a few. Jake needed more time to fit into the program and learn what it takes to lead the team instead of inheriting it by injury. Note: Bronco alluded to not appreciating players who have a sense of entitlement or are not humble. That is in his DNA and he tries to instill it in his players. I imagine any feud between Riley and Heaps probably dealt with this issue - having to work hard and prove yourself everyday and be a team builder rather than be coddled. Wanted Jake to stay, grow up and face adversity with courage and tenacity. He chose elsewhere and good riddance - we now have team chemistry and Bronco realizes he needs to adjust some of his methods/approaches to ensure this doesn't happen again.



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I just couldn't let this go. Lets examine how Jake was "set up to fail". He was handed a co starting job because his entourage made it clear the he would transfer if he wasn't a starter. He was out performed by the weak armed QB from Logan in every game that they co started. He played some of the worst QB that we have ever seen at BYU last year until we got up against some of the worst defenses we have ever played against. He was again handed the starting job this year after abandoning his teammates in the summer instead of working out with them to get rythm and timing with them. He again played some of the worst QB that we have ever seen at BYU for the first 4 games of the season until someone had the guts to pull him for a weak armed QB from Logan utah that couldn't throw further then 10 yards and all of a sudden we have a BYU offense back again.



Don't tell me he was set up to fail, he was handed the opportunity to succeed on a golden platter and fell flat on his face. Yes he has talent but talent but we didn't see that talent manifest itself on the field in game success. You could see that Riley knew the offense better the very second he took the field. You could see his eyes going through his progressions and you could see balls being thrown accurately and on time. You could see recievers who had disapeared under Heaps suddenly look compitent and make plays. It was no accident, it was the culmination of a player who had worked with his teammates and had developed a chemestry with them. I don't care if Riley undermined Heaps secretly or in public, Riley was and is the better QB because he earned the right to play QB at BYU. Nothing was given to him for free.

pjmuli wrote:

Sorry guys, I don't come here nearly as often as I should, and I'm coming here to be a turd, so that's not exactly helpful. ..But if I've accrued even an ounce of credibility over the years, trust me when I say that there was more than just a sporting rivalry between Jake and Riley, and especially among those who supported either player. I've heard at least two people close to the program without any real rooting interest use very harsh words when it comes to some of Riley's actions, and especially the actions of at least one other active Riley campaigner (he's a defensive starter). Worse, I think most would agree certain coaches participated, or at least fueled, the rivalry, and once Bronco made an indication as to whom he favored, the balanced shifted abruptly over to Riley. Each person I've tried to corroborate this with has confirmed it to some degree.

If you read the article today about Bronco changing his mind regarding the election of team captains...you will note that Riley Nelson decided to sit out of optional summer workouts last year.



Due to McGregor's credibility, and other evidences that seem to point to this reality, I don't doubt this behavior really did occur. It is an important part of the story...but it is only a part.

Yes, but a very underestimated, grossly minimized, revisionistically sterilized, and overly rejected "part".

frdbtr wrote:
I just couldn't let this go. Lets examine how Jake was "set up to fail". He was handed a co starting job because his entourage made it clear the he would transfer if he wasn't a starter. He was out performed by the weak armed QB from Logan in every game that they co started. He played some of the worst QB that we have ever seen at BYU last year until we got up against some of the worst defenses we have ever played against. He was again handed the starting job this year after abandoning his teammates in the summer instead of working out with them to get rythm and timing with them. He again played some of the worst QB that we have ever seen at BYU for the first 4 games of the season until someone had the guts to pull him for a weak armed QB from Logan utah that couldn't throw further then 10 yards and all of a sudden we have a BYU offense back again.



Don't tell me he was set up to fail, he was handed the opportunity to succeed on a golden platter and fell flat on his face. Yes he has talent but talent but we didn't see that talent manifest itself on the field in game success. You could see that Riley knew the offense better the very second he took the field. You could see his eyes going through his progressions and you could see balls being thrown accurately and on time. You could see recievers who had disapeared under Heaps suddenly look compitent and make plays. It was no accident, it was the culmination of a player who had worked with his teammates and had developed a chemestry with them. I don't care if Riley undermined Heaps secretly or in public, Riley was and is the better QB because he earned the right to play QB at BYU. Nothing was given to him for free.

Dont take the blue pill Neo. Life seems much better oblivious to the ugly realities that exist in the world.