CougarCorner
Sign in
Archived Topic

Achilles Heel of team

by byucougar1 · 3/4/2012

Advertisement
B
byucougar1
Seems like the guards always resort to 3 pointer if the middle is clogged with double team on Davies or Harstock. There is nothin wrong with a higher percentage 15-17 foot shot which we seem to loathe. Fact - we are not a good 3 point shooting team and should quit relying on this to get us out of drought. The turnover problem on poor passing and not coming forward to receive the pass is infuriating. If we don't control the ball, we dig ourselves into a hole. Finally, we are very slow in defending off the dribble - can't believe how Pangos, Bell, Harris, breakdown our D with quick first step and penetration. Unless we bone up on these weaknesses we will struggle against quick, athletic, turnover-capitalizing teams.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
B
BYULV
Can't argue with you here. (however you said it better the first time you posted it ;). )



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
K
KYCoug
It's like our freshman guards are playing like...freshman! :blush:
B
BYULV
KYCoug wrote:
It's like our freshman guards are playing like...freshman! :blush:


Exactly. This is why I hope we go to the NIT. I think the team benefits so much more from playing, hopefully, 3-4 games or more against good competition than it would getting matched up with a high seed in the NCAA. If I were Rose I would almost lobby to get left out of "the big Dance".



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
S
scott715
But he money and prestige (and recruiting) are in the NCAAs. How many years in a row have we gone? Like every year but Rose's first year.
Advertisement
B
byucougar1
Going to big dance would be nice final touch for our 2 seniors and a great learning tool for the newbies to gain valuable experience and find out what it takes to get to the next level.



What bugs me about this team is that since the Zag loss we regressed while they progressed. We are reeling while Zags are dealing.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
B
BYULV
byucougar1 wrote:
Going to big dance would be nice final touch for our 2 seniors and a great learning tool for the newbies to gain valuable experience and find out what it takes to get to the next level.



What bugs me about this team is that since the Zag loss we regressed while they progressed. We are reeling while Zags are dealing.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


The zags were well prepared for us. They studied and practiced hard for us. I doubt they prepared for USD or pepperdine (they probably bet them without any serious prep), they put it all in to beat BYU. It showed, they knew our tendencies and exploited them. Advantage of a weeks preparation. We have nearly two weeks to heal, work on fundamentals and strategies and then prepare for our next opponent. We will be in good shape.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
D
Ddawg
If we go to the NCAA Tourney - it's one and done. After watching Gonzaga work us, I don't see the Coug's bringing it. I hope they can turn a corner here & kick their game up a few notches - to be competitive.
B
byucougar1
I guess the real question is what the loss did to their psyche. If they have a shortt memory about the loss, and remember what got them to their success - they could turn things around and win a first round game. However, teams know how to prepare for us as they have the Gonzaga, SMU, LMU blueprints.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
C
Cougs_Rule
The heel might be that we are running and gunning without the guns. Carlino won't run the offense consistently. Cusick does understand and run the offense, but gets very timid vs better defenders, which is everyone during a tourney. Zylchstra has the run but he ain't got no gun, except when left wide open and only on rare occasions; plays hard, but.

The other heel is youth in our guard line.

I don't believe I am going to say this, but get to the big dance and if you lose you lose. This team need more than a few games in the NIT. It needs a makeover. It needs a few more pieces. Noah will be sorely, sorely missed, as will Charles' D. Hopefully Haws can bring desperately needed outside game and Matt can figure a few things out but next year. Take two weeks, regroup, give it your all for one game and move on to next year!



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
Advertisement
S
scott715
Perhaps rose needs to get more creative with the timing of missions. If Haws played last year maybe they would have gotten to the final four. Haws will help next year but it is a true rebuilding year again. The missionaries leave as soon as they are eligible nearly ever time. Maybe a little juggling could help.
G
Gunk
scott715 wrote:
Perhaps rose needs to get more creative with the timing of missions. If Haws played last year maybe they would have gotten to the final four. Haws will help next year but it is a true rebuilding year again. The missionaries leave as soon as they are eligible nearly ever time. Maybe a little juggling could help.


I don't think Rose has much say when a missionary goes and for the sake of the young man if they decide to go they should go without delay. Perhaps Rose could deal with it a bit better.



After Loyd left it should have been quite apparent we would be lacking a PG in 2012 and plans made accordingly. Instead, he bet the farm on Carlino and we know how that turned out. Instead of PG to help shoulder the load we had a walk-on with no D1 experience. "A" for effort, but it wasn't enough.



Achilles heel IMO is and has been is for a while is Rose's ability to make in-game/mid-season adjustments and come up with game-winning plans or at least get his players to stick to the game plan.



We lost against Utah State because Rose was experimenting with Zylstra as PG. If it's apparent to me (an armchair fan) that Zylstra shouldn't play PG why on Earth Rose even considered it is beyond me.



We lost games in the middle of the season because of Rose's continued infatuation with Zylstra. Winder finally starts over Zylstra, Zylstra is limited due to injury, and we roll in Feb. Zylstra starts getting more min and we tank again. Rose, for whatever reason, continues to go with him.



How many games went south fast as the team chucked up brick after brick after only eating up 5 seconds on the shot clock. I like our fast passed offense. But at least 1 pass should be made before each shot unless it's a fast break. Team continued to do this while Rose watched on the sidelines and the habit continued.



Our perimeter defense and ability to rotate on defense absolutely sucked this season. Players continually played out of position, left sharp shooters open, and poorly communicated. Again, the pattern continued from game to game. That's on Rose.
G
Guest
Gunk wrote:
Perhaps rose needs to get more creative with the timing of missions. If Haws played last year maybe they would have gotten to the final four. Haws will help next year but it is a true rebuilding year again. The missionaries leave as soon as they are eligible nearly ever time. Maybe a little juggling could help.


I don't think Rose has much say when a missionary goes and for the sake of the young man if they decide to go they should go without delay. Perhaps Rose could deal with it a bit better.



After Loyd left it should have been quite apparent we would be lacking a PG in 2012 and plans made accordingly. Instead, he bet the farm on Carlino and we know how that turned out. Instead of PG to help shoulder the load we had a walk-on with no D1 experience. "A" for effort, but it wasn't enough.



Achilles heel IMO is and has been is for a while is Rose's ability to make in-game/mid-season adjustments and come up with game-winning plans or at least get his players to stick to the game plan.



We lost against Utah State because Rose was experimenting with Zylstra as PG. If it's apparent to me (an armchair fan) that Zylstra shouldn't play PG why on Earth Rose even considered it is beyond me.



We lost games in the middle of the season because of Rose's continued infatuation with Zylstra. Winder finally starts over Zylstra, Zylstra is limited due to injury, and we roll in Feb. Zylstra starts getting more min and we tank again. Rose, for whatever reason, continues to go with him.



How many games went south fast as the team chucked up brick after brick after only eating up 5 seconds on the shot clock. I like our fast passed offense. But at least 1 pass should be made before each shot unless it's a fast break. Team continued to do this while Rose watched on the sidelines and the habit continued.



Our perimeter defense and ability to rotate on defense absolutely sucked this season. Players continually played out of position, left sharp shooters open, and poorly communicated. Again, the pattern continued from game to game. That's on Rose.


Not sure what other option Rose had besides Zylstra, especially against USU. Nor your infatuation with Winder. The guy is adequate on defense against slower players but is an absolute liability on offense (black hole and poor shot). And he gets beat by faster guys, as we saw him get abused defensively every time he was on the court against the Zags. Winder will be good one day, but this year was not the time.
S
SpiffCoug
Can't make in-game adjustments? He changed things up so much against Gonzaga in the Kennel that the Zags barely scored for 14 minutes.
G
Gunk
hawkwing wrote:

Not sure what other option Rose had besides Zylstra, especially against USU. Nor your infatuation with Winder. The guy is adequate on defense against slower players but is an absolute liability on offense (black hole and poor shot). And he gets beat by faster guys, as we saw him get abused defensively every time he was on the court against the Zags. Winder will be good one day, but this year was not the time.


Winder sat on the bench the entire Utah State game. Rose had the option of playing Winder. Rose brought Winder in after the Utah State loss. We went on to beat Nevada and Oregon with Winder at point. Both Nevada and Oregon are much better than Utah State.



Zylstra is a black hole on offense too unless playing at home against sub 150 RPI teams. Zylstra gets abused even more on defense as he's too slow to guard the 2 or 3 and too small to guard the 4.



My "infatuation" with Winder comes from watching him get stops against teams when no one else could. If it weren't for Winder and his "adequate" defense we would have lost against Va Tech (3 steals).



It wasn't until Rose put him in against SMC (3 steals) that we started getting stops and making a bit of a comeback. Against GU in Provo it was Winder that flustered Pangos to death (3 steals) and holding Pangos to 33% shooting for a total of 4 points. When, if ever, has Zylstra kept someone averaging 14 pts/game to single digits?



Winder kept Johnny Dee (13.7 pts/game) from getting hot last week. Johnny Dee shot 27% for 9 points. Against GU on Sat., Winder was a few bounces away from getting several steals. Unfortunately, Winder got in early foul trouble; otherwise, we may have seen a different game on Sat.



Winder averages 16.4 min/game and 1.1 steal/game. That's roughly 1 steal every 16 min.



Zylstra averages 28.1 min/game and 1.3 steals/game, or 1 steal every 22 min.
Advertisement
G
Gunk
SpiffCoug wrote:
Can't make in-game adjustments? He changed things up so much against Gonzaga in the Kennel that the Zags barely scored for 14 minutes.


Yes, while we ran up and down the court chucking shots up left and right with no semblance of a game plan on offense.
M
McY
Mr. Gunk: I wholeheartedly agree with your expert, in-depth analysis regarding Winder's playtime versus that of Zyltra's. Cheerio.
M
Mars
McY wrote:
Gunk: I wholeheartedly agree with your expert, in-depth analysis regarding Winder's playtime versus that of Zyltra's.

Seconded.
Q
Qman
Playing devil's advocate-



Zylstra moves to the right spots and fights for rebounds.
G
Gunk
Qman wrote:
Playing devil's advocate-



Zylstra moves to the right spots and fights for rebounds.


Good point. Thought I'd take a deeper look at it.



Zylstra averages 1 rebound every 6.5 minutes.



Winder averages 1 rebound every 10.25 minutes.



One could argue this has more to do with position than a player's ability.



As PG, Winder's job would have been to play back a bit more to cut off the face break as opposed to crashing the boards. Plus, as PG he would most likely be out on the perimeter and therefore away from under the basket where most rebounds occur.



Zylstra has played the 2, 3, and 4. All of which put him in a slightly better or direct position to rebound.



In the month of Feb., Winder stepped up his game a bit and started getting more min. Due in part to injury, his performance at Va Tech, etc. He started playing the 2 more. His minutes jumped from 5 to 14 min a game to 25 min a game.



In the last 11 games, Winder has averaged 18.5 min/game and 2.2 rebounds/game. Which, would put him at 1 rebound every 8.4 min.



In the same stretch, Zylstra averaged 22.3 min/game and 3.8 rebounds/game. Which would put him at 1 rebound every 6 min.



It was during these last 11 games that Zylstra played only the 3 or 4, so it would be expected of him to grab more rebounds.



In the first 22 games of the season, where Zylstra primarily played the 2, he averaged 29.8 min/game and 4.3 rebounds/game. Which would put him at 1 rebound every 7 min.



In the same stretch, where Winder was either playing PG or riding the bench. Winder grabbed 1 rebound every 12 min.



For the fun of it, I decided to look at Zylstra's points in our losses and compare those to his season average of 8.6 points/game.



In all our losses, Zylstra averaged 2.75 pts/game. His highest game of our losses was against LMU, not surprisingly, with 7 points. Lowest was against GU with 0.
Page 1 of 2
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.