Archived Topic

Zylstra vs. Harrison

by Gunk · 2/13/2012

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G
Gunk
Not necessarily an apples to apples comparison, but I thought I'd throw out some stats. Doubt these will "set the record straight," but hopefully it will shed some light on the productivity of each player.



I essentially compared each players' season average as well as their total acheivements in the last 3 games each player played in. Harrison played in the last 3 games so I looked at his stats for Pepperdine, Portland and GU. Zylstra missed Pepperdine, so I looked at Portland, GU and SMC.



Since Zylstra has played A LOT more minutes than Harrison, I looked at each player's per minute contribution against the season and in their last 3 games.



Executive Summary:



On a per min basis, Harrison scores more, both over the season and in his last 3 games.



Over the season, Zylstra is a better rebounder, but in both players' last 3 games their rebounding on a similar level. This probably has to do with each player playing more of a small forward position as opposed to shooting guard.



Over the season, Zylstra slightly edges out out Harrison for assists; however, in the last 3 games Harrison dishes more on a per min basis.



On a per min basis, Harrison gets more steals both over the season and in his last 3 games.



The two players' production is quite comparable. Given Harrison's superior speed and potential for more upside with more PT, IMO he should be getting more min. At the very least, there shouldn't be any knocking on his productivity as he's more productive on a per min basis.



Full Stats:



Harrison (6’5”, 190 lbs, Freshman, 9.4 min per game)



On the Season:



- 4 shot attempts/game with 1.4 makes/game and 3.5 pts/game

- 1 pt every 2.7 min with 1 shot attempt every 2 min 20 sec. Makes 1 shot every 6 min 40 sec

- 1 rebound per game, so one rebound per 9 min

- 0.6 assists/game, so 1 assist every 15 min 45 sec

- Has 0.5 steals/game, so one steal every 18 min



Last Three Games (33 min):



- 12 shot attempts with 4 makes and 11 pts

- 1 pt every 3 min with 1 shot attempt every 2 min 45 sec. Makes 1 shot every 8 min 20 sec

- 5 rebounds, so 1 rebound every 6 min 35 sec

- 2 assists, so 1 assist every 15 min

- 3 steals, so 1 steal every 10 min



Zylstra (6’6”, 210 lbs, Junior, 28.3 min/game)



On the Season:



- 6.2 shot attempts/game with 2.9 makes/game and 8.4 pts/game

- 1 pt every 3 min 25 sec with 1 shot attempt every 4 min 30 sec. Makes 1 shot every 9 min 45 sec

- 4.2 rebounds/game, so 1 rebound per 6 min 45 seconds

- 2.1 assists/game, so 1 assist every 13 min 30 seconds

- 1.3 steals/game, so 1 steal every 21 min 45 seconds



Last Three Games (81 min):



- 13 shot attempts with 5 makes and 17 pts

- 1 pt every 4 min 45 sec with 1 shot attempts every 2 min 15 sec. Makes 1 shot every 16 min 15 sec

- 13 rebounds, 1 rebound every 6 min 15 sec

- 4 assists, 1 assist every 20 min

- 6 steals, 1 steal every 13 min 30 sec
G
Guest
So one of Zylstra's games includes going up against the best guards in the west while Harrison's includes 3 games against teams with poor guards.



What if you took out SMC and only compared the 2 teams they both played against?
G
Gunk
hawkwing wrote:
So one of Zylstra's games includes going up against the best guards in the west while Harrison's includes 3 games against teams with poor guards.



What if you took out SMC and only compared the 2 teams they both played against?


Good question. I'll take a look at while on my train ride home.
M
Mars
Harrison has a truly awful points per shot ratio, combined with a massive shots per minute ratio. About the worst on the team.
C
Cougarbib
Mars wrote:
Harrison has a truly awful points per shot ratio, combined with a massive shots per minute ratio. About the worst on the team.


This - if he just shoots less often by taking good shots and not taking or forcing bad shots - that problem probably gets solved and he gets more minutes.
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KYCoug
Mars wrote:
Harrison has a truly awful points per shot ratio, combined with a massive shots per minute ratio. About the worst on the team.


That kind of comes with being a freshman. In fact I would say it's unusually good to have a freshman who doesn't have these problems. He has hugh upside though. Can't wait to see him after his mission!!!
S
SpiffCoug
Here are their rates per 40 minutes:

Points per 40 minutes: Zylstra 11.84; Harrison 14.69

Rebounds per 40 minutes: Zylstra 5.87; Harrison 4.42

Assists per 40 minutes: Zylstra 2.93; Harrison 2.48

Turnovers per 40 minutes: Zylstra 2.17; Harrison 3.72

Blocks per 40 minutes: Zylstra 0.16; Harrison 0.18

Steals per 40 minutes: Zylstra 1.79; Harrison 2.12



True Shooting Percentage: Zylstra .604; Harrison .407

Points Available Percentage: Zylstra .462; Harrison .333





These guys are VERY similar. Harrison is getting good minutes right now and I think his 10 minutes a night is about right. He's getting better. I don't think he needs a massive influx of minutes right now.
M
Mars
SpiffCoug wrote:
Rebounds per 40 minutes: Zylstra 5.87; Harrison 4.42

Assists per 40 minutes: Zylstra 2.93; Harrison 2.48

Turnovers per 40 minutes: Zylstra 2.17; Harrison 3.72

Steals per 40 minutes: Zylstra 1.79; Harrison 2.12



True Shooting Percentage: Zylstra .604; Harrison .407

Points Available Percentage: Zylstra .462; Harrison .333

You don't give a more-effective player's minutes to a less-effective player, unless it's a blow-out. Then get Harrison all the minutes you can, while teaching him to pass up all the bad shots and to play unselfishly.
B
beauso79
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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SpiffCoug
beauso79 wrote:
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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How about this? Tell me which games Zylstra played bad in and I'll count those up. Then tell me which games Harrison played well in and I'll count those up. Then we can compare the two players and make a judgement.



I love arguments like this. I don't like Player A, please give me his stats in the games in played poorly in. I like Player B, please discount all his poor play and tell me what his stats are.



Also, if you could take away all the minutes Player A was playing well and give them to Player B so he could play well too, that would be great.
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Cougarbib
SpiffCoug wrote:
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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How about this? Tell me which games Zylstra played bad in and I'll count those up. Then tell me which games Harrison played well in and I'll count those up. Then we can compare the two players and make a judgement.



I love arguments like this. I don't like Player A, please give me his stats in the games in played poorly in. I like Player B, please discount all his poor play and tell me what his stats are.



Also, if you could take away all the minutes Player A was playing well and give them to Player B so he could play well too, that would be great.




Exactly. And if you give a player with bad habits re shot selection early minutes hoping he matures you may well reinforce bad behavior and slow down the maturation process. Accountability and consequences do wonders for maturity. Harrison will be fine. He is coming along. Flashes of brilliance - especially back east - still inconsistent.



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G
Gunk
beauso79 wrote:
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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That's why I looked at the last three games each player played in. Harrison played relatively well in that stretch. Zylstra had one good game and the rest were poor.
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beauso79
His suckiness probably goes back further than that. Just trying to make the point that defense is what keeps us in games when our offense goes stagnant. It would be nice to be able to play man defense every now and then and not get hosed



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G
Guest
Gunk wrote:
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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That's why I looked at the last three games each player played in. Harrison played relatively well in that stretch. Zylstra had one good game and the rest were poor.


But level of competition was also a huge factor, which was not a fair comparison. Still waiting for an equal set of opponents for comparison.
G
Gunk
hawkwing wrote:
beauso79 wrote:
Those stats probably take into account how Zylstra was playing to begin the year as well. What are those stats for the last 2 months because he's been about useless on offense during that time period? Also what about this stat: PADTBD: POINTS ALLOWED DUE TO BAD DEFENSE. Zylstra is a major liability on the defensive end against more athletic teams. What if Harrison gets more minutes earlier in the year?? Maybe he could have matured a little more on the floor



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That's why I looked at the last three games each player played in. Harrison played relatively well in that stretch. Zylstra had one good game and the rest were poor.


But level of competition was also a huge factor, which was not a fair comparison. Still waiting for an equal set of opponents for comparison.


I know...I know...gosh be patient, Hawking. :P
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Cougarbib
Having a hard time finding the data or having a hard time finding data to support your opinion. The data is easy to find - just tell it like it is.



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BroncoBot
not important to me. Neither are the answer for BYU basketball this year, and both have made nice contributions. For example, I was glad that both Zylstra and Harrison made some 3s against Virginia Tech. They are about equal in my "from the comfort of my couch" analysis.
C
Cougarbib
declocoug wrote:
not important to me. Neither are the answer for BYU basketball this year, and both have made nice contributions. For example, I was glad that both Zylstra and Harrison made some 3s against Virginia Tech. They are about equal in my "from the comfort of my couch" analysis.


This pretty well sums up my feelings on the topic.



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