Unless we win 2 of the next 3

Unless we win 2 of the next 3, then Dave Rose needs to start playing the young guys much much more.I'd rather see Carlino struggle than Cusick take minutes that Carlino needs to get better. I want to see Winder and Harrison play defense and I want to see Austin get more minutes in the post. Zylstra and Cusick cannot play big time defense and it shows. We can win against the 2nd tier but we're not going to beat premier teams because we can't hide them on the floor defensively, particularly when they're playing together.



If your only chance to make the NCAA tourney is to win the WCC tourney, then our best talent needs to be ready to play and they need experience.



Get Harrison, Winder, Carlino, and Austin up to speed and hopefully give a ton of minutes to Rogers and Collinsworth when they're ready so that by March Madness we can make a run. If we don't then at least these guys are experienced for next season.



No one in their right mind would agree that Cusick and Zylstra can get us to the dance; so I'd rather gamble on youth, at least this early in the season. Put them on the floor and tell them to run the break and play killer D. No more of this Cusick/Zylstra perimeter defense. It doesn't work.

If BYU wants an at-large bid, they can't lose the rest of the regular season. Just my opinion.

SpiffCoug wrote:
If BYU wants an at-large bid, they can't lose the rest of the regular season. Just my opinion.

I think a lost @ Gonzaga would be forgiven. With the PAC-12 down there are some bids available at a lower at large threshold.



As for playing the young guys, I have worried about this for weeks. Zylstra and Cusick just can't get it done against talented players. Winder, Carlino and Harrison might be able to. They are our best chance despite all the mistakes they make.

Interesting proposition. But what if these youngins need their butt kicked but keep getting more unearned minutes? Maybe that is why they are being held out, lack of defensive effort? But I agree mostly.



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Been saying this for a while now. I don't know if Rose is trying to prove a point or has forgotten the Jimmer/Murdock situation that played out in the past



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I think he is trying to win games.



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He's trying to win games and clearly believes establishing a strong post presence is the way to do it. I don't necessarily disagree; however, in focusing too much on establishing the post I get the impression he's lost sight of what's made past BYU teams so potent - run 'n gun transition basketball off of turnovers and rebounds.



Cusick doesn't rebound, doesn't create turnovers and doesn't push the ball.



Winder, Harrison and Carlino do. Problem is in a half court set, which we seem to be playing a lot of lately, Winder, Harrison and Carlino are prone to make poor decisions and forget they are in a half court set.



This team is built to run and shoot and they aren't doing that, which I am sure is frustrating to Winder and Harrison in particular. At the beginning of the season when we occasionally had Davies, Winder, Abouo and Harrison on the court at the same time, the defense was awesomely fast, created turnovers and BYU had its mojo going.



Rose seems to have forgotten that and appears more intent on playing half court ball. In essence, we're playing down to opponents' levels. We're not playing our game.



Rose needs to wake up a bit, but more importantly Winder and Harrison need to keep their heads on their shoulders.



I miss Coach Rice. Nashif clearly isn't getting it done with the guards this year.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
I think he is trying to win games.



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This is not an NCAA tourney caliber team. You don't mortgage the future to possibly get an extra win using Zylstra and Cusick. The future could be as soon as the WCC tourney if Harrison, Winder, Austin, Rogers, and Carlino are prepared and more seasoned.



On zylstra and cusicks best days, when we play top notch teams....they cannot play good enough perimeter defense to warrant the type of minutes they're getting. Wisconsin was a perfect example of needing perimeter D .... Baylor is an example of what harrison, carlino, and winder can do when they're playing well, and Baylor was a near coin flip of a game that we could have won with the personel we had that day. Get the young guys ready for the WCC tourney... it's our only shot at the NCAAs, particularly if we don't have an amazing next 7 days. I'm not holding my breath.



I also am appalled out how stuck in the half court we are. It's not working for us. We need to run... we're a running team and if we don't run against the top tier, then we'll lose like we did at Saint Mary's. We can't go half court vs half court and beat them or Gonzaga.

How is our half-court not working? Davies and Hatsock have 91 points between them the last two games?

Ditto Craig.



The chances of BYU getting an at large bid losing 2 more games is ZERO. No one is going to take an 8 loss BYU team in the WCC over a 10 or 11 loss Big WHATEVER team (nor should they, really.)





Our best lineup is Carlino, Abuou, Rogers (when healthy), Davies and Hartsock.



Cusick and Carlino should never be on the court together. You are neutralizing them both by putting them out there with each other, imo. They play at different tempos and have different styles.

IMO, we've got more talent and athleticism on this team then ever before and it's going to waste. I fail to see how Winder and Harrison are getting better by sitting on the bench.



Next season, we lose Noah and Abouo. Collinsworth likely won't be back and isn't an offensive threat either. Austin has his moments, but his post play is poor. Rogers will likely be streaky at the 3 and not a consistent threat.



Next season, we will not have 40+ points a night from the frontcourt. We will be much more dependent on guard play and I shudder at the thought of Cusick and Zylstra trying to push a more guard centric offense. The wrong guys are on the bench right now.

I don't understand why people think guys cant improve on the bench, do they not play in practical either? Could it be possible that Rose is trying to bring the young guys along and still not finish in 4th or 5th place in the wcc? Weren't we just talking about how well he develops players a month ago?

craigoscarson wrote:

I think he is trying to win games.



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This is not an NCAA tourney caliber team. You don't mortgage the future to possibly get an extra win using Zylstra and Cusick. The future could be as soon as the WCC tourney if Harrison, Winder, Austin, Rogers, and Carlino are prepared and more seasoned.



On zylstra and cusicks best days, when we play top notch teams....they cannot play good enough perimeter defense to warrant the type of minutes they're getting. Wisconsin was a perfect example of needing perimeter D .... Baylor is an example of what harrison, carlino, and winder can do when they're playing well, and Baylor was a near coin flip of a game that we could have won with the personel we had that day. Get the young guys ready for the WCC tourney... it's our

only shot at the NCAAs, particularly if we don't have an amazing next 7 days. I'm not holding my breath.



I also am appalled out how stuck in the half court we are. It's not working for us. We need to run... we're a running team and if we don't run against the top tier, then we'll lose like we did at Saint Mary's. We can't go half court vs half court and beat them or Gonzaga.

I agree with your short answer. This is not an NCAA Tournament Team right now. But getting the young guys ready at the expense of losing games sounds like what football tried to do in 2010 ans we lost games and they still were not ready, accepted losing having been trained that losing today is OK because we are playing for the future. Now let's just train these guys to play to not get hurt and you will have BYU football early 2011 - it is ok to lose because we are preparing for the future and don't risk getting hurt.



The future is now. Play to win games and work the young bucks in where it makes sense. That will build confidence - losing does not.



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PS - due to work conflicts and honeydos, I missed part of the last 2 games. What were the starting lineups when we spotted those teams double digit leads in the opening 2-3 minutes? Hopefully, they ended up on the bench. I love Carlino - except when he plays out of control or forces shots.



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craigoscarson wrote:
Unless we win 2 of the next 3, then Dave Rose needs to start playing the young guys much much more.I'd rather see Carlino struggle than Cusick take minutes that Carlino needs to get better. I want to see Winder and Harrison play defense and I want to see Austin get more minutes in the post. Zylstra and Cusick cannot play big time defense and it shows. We can win against the 2nd tier but we're not going to beat premier teams because we can't hide them on the floor defensively, particularly when they're playing together.



If your only chance to make the NCAA tourney is to win the WCC tourney, then our best talent needs to be ready to play and they need experience.



Get Harrison, Winder, Carlino, and Austin up to speed and hopefully give a ton of minutes to Rogers and Collinsworth when they're ready so that by March Madness we can make a run. If we don't then at least these guys are experienced for next season.



No one in their right mind would agree that Cusick and Zylstra can get us to the dance; so I'd rather gamble on youth, at least this early in the season. Put them on the floor and tell them to run the break and play killer D. No more of this Cusick/Zylstra perimeter defense. It doesn't work.

I'm just going to read this over and over and assume that Dave Rose has a cougarcorner account and that he paid attention. You're welcome coach. ;)



Honestly, sometimes it takes games like LMU in hoops or Utah State in football for a coach to finally decide to do what he knows is right. I'm just glad we have coaches that are willing to make changes midstream. This is a big reason why Coach Rose's teams almost never lose back to back games and why Coach Mendenhall's teams 99% of the time beat the teams they're supposed to win. I actually think we're a little spoiled sometimes. If you don't think so, we could always go back to 2004. :whistle:

hawkwing wrote:
I don't understand why people think guys cant improve on the bench, do they not play in practical either? Could it be possible that Rose is trying to bring the young guys along and still not finish in 4th or 5th place in the wcc? Weren't we just talking about how well he develops players a month ago?

It seems ironic - player H is young and inexperienced - plays inconsistently, but with flashes - makes freshman mistakes too often - coach benches player H or reduces minutes behind players with less potential - later player H is re-inserted - plays better - fan C says - see - I told you so - player H should have been playing and coach R took too long to realize it - fan B(Bib2) is thinking along with fan H(Hawk) maybe player H learned something by watching and getting hungry to get more PT back East vs VT near home.



BTW - player H, in this case, was quoted as saying he had been playing poorly and was happy to have gotten a 2nd chance in front of hometown friends who travelled up to Blacksburg.



Hopefully player C(Carlino) will pick up some messaging and find his role as well along with player W who also seemed to improve while watching and player A who has been looking good off the bench when player D gets in foul trouble. Hopefully players C2 and Z are watching players who are getting more minutes and figuring out why. Hopefully player Abouo aka A2 not to be confused with Austin aka A, figures out that less is more in certain circumstances and stays in control.



Now - who is player H?



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Cougarbib2 wrote:

I don't understand why people think guys cant improve on the bench, do they not play in practical either? Could it be possible that Rose is trying to bring the young guys along and still not finish in 4th or 5th place in the wcc? Weren't we just talking about how well he develops players a month ago?

It seems ironic - player H is young and inexperienced - plays inconsistently, but with flashes - makes freshman mistakes too often - coach benches player H or reduces minutes behind players with less potential - later player H is re-inserted - plays better - fan C says - see - I told you so - player H should have been playing and coach R took too long to realize it - fan B(Bib2) is thinking along with fan H(Hawk) maybe player H learned something by watching and getting hungry to get more PT back East vs VT near home.



BTW - player H, in this case, was quoted as saying he had been playing poorly and was happy to have gotten a 2nd chance in front of hometown friends who travelled up to Blacksburg.



Hopefully player C(Carlino) will pick up some messaging and find his role as well along with player W who also seemed to improve while watching and player A who has been looking good off the bench when player D gets in foul trouble. Hopefully players C2 and Z are watching players who are getting more minutes and figuring out why. Hopefully player Abouo aka A2 not to be confused with Austin aka A, figures out that less is more in certain circumstances and stays in control.



Now - who is player H?



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Does anyone here really believe that we were better off with Ben Murdock playing than Jimmer?



Bottom line, Harrison and Winder should be playing more. It would be hard for those guys to sit the bench and watch WCC guards abuse Zylstra and Cusick and figure out why they're not getting minutes. Sometimes the only thing you learn on the bench when you're almost certain not to come off it, is that USD has really hot cheerleaders.

That was a long time ago Craig, and I can't compare freshman Jimmer with Senior or whatever he was Ben Murdock.



I do know this - when Jimmer got his shot, he was hungry to play, usually understood his role, was coach able, and had confidence.



And he certainly didn't accept losing games now to hopefully win games later.



But - if he played as inconsistently as a freshman as Harrison acknowledged he has and that I think Winder has, then maybe it was good that they spent that year getting him ready.



It was a long time ago, but I don't recall Jimmer looking like a world beater as a true freshman.



I do recall you making the call on Hartsock, however, back when most doubted him.



Which of our 3 young bucks are you projecting to be the next Jimmer? Or was that a Red Herring?



And are you suggesting that we start Carlino, Winder, and Harrison along with Davies and Hartsock and let the chips fall?



I am suggesting steadily increasing roles if they continue to show improvement and the opposite if they do not. Same for Cusick and Zylstra. Now what to do with Abouo? I have no idea why he still reverts back to freshman mistakes after flashes of brilliance. But then, I never figured out why JT never figured out his role.



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"...But then, I never figured out why JT never figured out his role."



He figured it out, it was to hit threes just often enough to frustrate the heck out of opposing coaches and get them riled up so they look like thugs in the post game hand shake line (yes, UNM, I'm talking about you).



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