Riley and Tebow

I'm asking this question because I really don't know. Besides highlights I never watched Tebow at Florida and have only seen a few minutes of him this year.



The question is, how good would Riley be if he were surrounded by the talent that Tebow had at FL, playing in a system completely designed for his skill set?



Can Tebow throw any better than Riley? Tebow's throwing motion AWFUL. Once he decides to pull the trigger on a pass, it feels like it takes all day for that wind-up, and his accuracy seems highly suspect. He doesn't even look very fast for a runner. I just checked his 40 time from the combine and it was 4.7. On that note, has Riley gotten slower? I seem to remember him being VERY fast, but he didn't look it this season.



They're both great leaders and ferocious competitors that will do anything to win (which I'm sure is a lot easier being surrounded by 5 star players and Urban Meyer at the helm), and they both seem to be very good at getting the best out of the players around them.



They do both have one thing in common with me (left-handedness), which I'm sure counts for something :crazy:



Any thoughts from those with more Tebow experience and analyzing skills would be appreciated.

Tebow is much bigger. he could punish linebackers when he decided to run. Riley punishes no one but is able to absorb hits. Tebow has more arm strength, but as you noticed has a terrible throwing motion. Riley is probably more accurate. i would think that speed wise they are probably about equal.

Riley is better than Tim Tebow. By far. Riley is so good already that he can't really get any better going into next year.

jonnylingo wrote:
Riley is better than Tim Tebow. By far. Riley is so good already that he can't really get any better going into next year.

I think they have similarities but what seperates them and why Riley has no shot for the NFL is size and arm strength. If Riley had Tebow's size and arm strength he probably would not be playing for BYU.

jonnylingo wrote:
Riley is better than Tim Tebow. By far. Riley is so good already that he can't really get any better going into next year.

Jonny



U really locked onto that misquote. I am assuming you are referring to my post. I did not choose the "no improvement" option. I chose the "moderate improvement" expected option.



I have become a disciple of PER - 1, 2, 3, 4....... about now Sno will hopefully remind us what Riley's PER was in 2011 excluding and including the Tulsa game.



We have all discussed at length inthe past that about a 136 PER is pretty good. I do not expect RIley to notch his PER up significantly next year. I just don't. I think I read this week, that Riley was ranked 16th or 18 nationally in passer eficiency. And he runs 40 yards a game, or so it seems, on top of that.



I do not think Riley Nelson is going to pop into the Heisman finalists next year. I do not think Riley Nelson is going to lead the nation in passing efficiency. I will be pleasantly surprised if he cracks the top 10 - but not shocked.



I do not think Riley will run for more yards per game next year - not vs that schedule and not with coaches trying to keep him healthy.



I hope RIley makes better decisions and thus fewer interceptions against fast, quick defenses. That seems to be where he struggles. If I were Riley - I would make friends with the Tulsa guy that had his hands on several passes in addition to the picks he got, and ask him what he saw. He was obviously keying off of something and had the quickness to do so. Barring the guy teling him what was tipping him in certain situations - Riley needs to eat, drink, and sleep that film until he sees it and corrects it.



If Riley gets the same or even slightly lower PER next year - against the 2012 schedule - I am going to call that moderate improvement.

Riley is a better thrower than Tebow because he has a more compact throwing motion. A compact throwing motion is good in QBs because it means there is less time for inconsistencies in the motion. Every throw looks/feels the same.

Tebow's college PER:

2009: 164.17 (#1)

2008: 172.37 (#4)

2007: 172.5 (#2)

SpiffCoug wrote:
Riley is a better thrower than Tebow because he has a more compact throwing motion. A compact throwing motion is good in QBs because it means there is less time for inconsistencies in the motion. Every throw looks/feels the same.

+1 Not to mention they get the ball out quicker. I like Riley's throwing motion. Tebow's makes me want to throw up a little, despite the fact that Tim Tebow is the definition of awesomeness and possesses other-worldly super powers and will lead the Broncos to 5 superbowl titles...in the next 5 years.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Tebow's college PER:

2009: 164.17 (#1)

2008: 172.37 (#4)

2007: 172.5 (#2)

Interesting. This might make the case that college PER is a bit over rated, no? How is it calculated?

Nelson is a better passer than Tebow because Nelson can throw into man coverage where the windows are smaller. Tebow is a sight-thrower--he has to see the receiver wide open, and then get the ball to him while he is still open--meaning he needs the bigger holes in coverage that you see in zone defenses. Tebow simply can't anticipate when a receiver will be open (i.e trust the route ), which is his biggest shortcoming as a qb.



That said, Nelson would be a good backup to Tebow--left-handed, can run the same offense, but he could never be as good as Tebow because Tebow is MUCH faster, and MUCH bigger, and that means something in the NFL and in the zone-read.

cougman wrote:

Tebow's college PER:

2009: 164.17 (#1)

2008: 172.37 (#4)

2007: 172.5 (#2)

Interesting. This might make the case that college PER is a bit over rated, no? How is it calculated?

One reason Tebow was so efficient was the talent he was throwing to, and he was protected by several NFL calibre OL.



PER isn't overrated. Guess what? Tebow had a high PER and Florida won a TON of games those three years (13-1 in 2009, 13-1 in 2008, 9-4 in 2007).



PER is basically a ratio of completions, yards, touchdowns and interceptions per attempt.

A little mystified by all of this. I don't see how you could argue Riley is better than Tebow at anything that really matters. Tebow was a major contributor on two NC teams and another team that was an SEC championship shy of the NC. He won the Heisman and was always on the short list. His stats are by and large better than those of Riley's, and were accumulated in a period when the SEC was at its best.



I agree with the notion that Riley's throwing mechanics are better than Tebow's, but after seeing BYU's technically-proficient wunderkind QB get beat out by a guy as scrappy as Riley, I'm kind of on the "throwing mechanics don't matter on the college level as long as you complete your passes" side of things.



I'll also agree that Tebow was surrounded by more talent, and most importantly he had an O-line that gave him time, but I doubt Riley would've put up Tebow-like numbers for Florida. A large part of his passing game was reinforced by his ability to make plays with his legs - I don't see Riley having many career rushing days against good-to-elite opponents. TCU and Tulsa were both largely able to keep Riley in check on the ground.



I'm a big fan of Riley, and I HATED Tebow when he was with Florida (I'm slightly pro-Tebow now that he's in the NFL, just because its good drama he's creating). But I think if you asked a group of impartial football fans who was better, they'd probably laugh at you for even considering Nelson.

Yeah, clearly Tebow is a better player and QB, and like you said, there's not much you can argue against him. He's one of the best QBs ever at the college level. Probably in the same league as McMahon, Moore, McCoy, etc.

Lets be honest. Riley wouldn't last a day in the NFL. Tebow has. No comparison really in my opinion.

jonnylingo wrote:
Lets be honest. Riley wouldn't last a day in the NFL. Tebow has. No comparison really in my opinion.

Agreed.



But back to the original post, I think Riley would have performed similarly in regards to PER if he were on those Florida teams. But I'm not sure he could have carried the load like Tebow did in the SEC>

One thing I WILL say about both Riley and Tebow - and tmoney mentioned it - is the leadership principle.



Tim Tebow has inspired more awful columns and editorials than any other athlete in recent history, but there's one point the anti-Tebow faction repeatedly makes that particularly infuriates me. It's the point that Tebow gets credit for things that don't have anything to do with quarterbacking - Denver's improved defense, mental toughness by other players in crunch-time, late game turn-overs, etc.



I'll agree that Tebow got INCREDIBLY lucky in some of those regular season games (Vikes and Bears come to mind), but I'd like to think that Tim Tebow, if nothing else, proves that "intangibles" and "leadership" are not just empty buzzwords - if the focal point of your team has the right attitude, it can affect the whole team - not just the athlete in question.



From my vantage point, Tebow has EVERYTHING to do with the defense playing better. That's not to take away from the fact that the defense are still the ones doing the work and making the plays, but Tebow brings something to the table that seems to have a positive effect on the whole organization. Sometimes you just need that little extra motivation to have a completely different outcome (especially in a league as parity-focused as the NFL). It's one of the reasons why I'd rather have Tebow as my QB rather than, say, Jay Cutler at his douche peak (I think he's gotten better though). Cutler may be a good QB, but I'll take a step down at QB if I know that said QB is going to coax better play from my teammates across the board.



And I'd say the exact same thing about Riley. Going back and looking at some of Riley's performances the last day or two, I realized that I really did overlook a lot of his flaws during the season - but while there's still some question marks surrounding him as a quarterback, I'm surprisingly not that worried about him next year. He makes the team better. The offense plays hard for him, and his attitude mirrors the defense.

Great points Dcr36.

I think it is funny that any comparison between QB's gets the hackles up on people who think that just because there is any comparison between 2 guys it means that skillsets are also similar. I don't think that anyone has said(seriously) that Riley Nelson is a better QB then Tebow. They have similar skillsets that make them successful. I think that Riley has the potential to be a very good college QB and hopefully will lead us to a lot of wins next year. Tim Tebow was one of the best college QB's in the history of college football, there really is no actual comparison between them. Tebow looks like he is going to carve himself a successful nitch in the NFL too, I don't see Riley having a snowballs chance in he!! of making the NFL.

Since I am an alumnus of both schools, and have watched just about every game both have played in college I think I am well qualified to answer this question. Tebow is bigger, stronger, and a more punishing runner. He could finish off runs and lay out the linebackers. That's what made him very difficult to stop in the SEC. He was also very good at ad-libbing plays and making plays with his feet. He had a very strong arm, but great receivers made up for his lack of precision. He played against defenses that were chocked full of NFL talent. He went down as one of the greatest college players ever. Oh, and he had a little help in running/receiving support named Percy Harvin and Aaron Hernandez.



Now comparisons to Riley. Riley also makes great plays with his feet and extends plays. He does not level linebackers, so he cannot be as punishing a runner--but he doesn't need to seek out contact like Tebow did (until he hurt his shoulder). To be an effective runner. Because Nelson lacks the size, he is more susceptible to injury--can't take the kind of punishment Tebow could take standing back there. Nelson has a much better delivery. I would say Nelson's accuracy is a little better, but not that much--Hoffman has had to come up with some great catches to get completions. Also, Nelson's arm strength isn't nearly as good as Tebows. However, I think Nelson reads defenses much better.



In sum, Nelson doesn't match up well with Tebow physically. But I think he probably has the edge in the mental aspects of reading defenses, QB mechanics, and a slight edge in accuracy. As for Leadership, I would probably give the edge to Tebow because he roams the sidelines firing up his teammates, but Nelson is a pretty good leader too and people lay themselves out for him.



Both are incredibly fun to watch because you never know what is going to happen.

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Since I am an alumnus of both schools, and have watched just about every game both have played in college I think I am well qualified to answer this question. Tebow is bigger, stronger, and a more punishing runner. He could finish off runs and lay out the linebackers. That's what made him very difficult to stop in the SEC. He was also very good at ad-libbing plays and making plays with his feet. He had a very strong arm, but great receivers made up for his lack of precision. He played against defenses that were chocked full of NFL talent. He went down as one of the greatest college players ever. Oh, and he had a little help in running/receiving support named Percy Harvin and Aaron Hernandez.



Now comparisons to Riley. Riley also makes great plays with his feet and extends plays. He does not level linebackers, so he cannot be as punishing a runner--but he doesn't need to seek out contact like Tebow did (until he hurt his shoulder). To be an effective runner. Because Nelson lacks the size, he is more susceptible to injury--can't take the kind of punishment Tebow could take standing back there. Nelson has a much better delivery. I would say Nelson's accuracy is a little better, but not that much--Hoffman has had to come up with some great catches to get completions. Also, Nelson's arm strength isn't nearly as good as Tebows. However, I think Nelson reads defenses much better.



In sum, Nelson doesn't match up well with Tebow physically. But I think he probably has the edge in the mental aspects of reading defenses, QB mechanics, and a slight edge in accuracy. As for Leadership, I would probably give the edge to Tebow because he roams the sidelines firing up his teammates, but Nelson is a pretty good leader too and people lay themselves out for him.



Both are incredibly fun to watch because you never know what is going to happen.

this is probably what I was trying to say but didn't do it very well.