Does BYU have Ole Miss/Clemson Syndrome?

If you guys regularly read Stewart Mandel (one of SI's main college football dudes) you're probably familiar with the phrase "Ole Miss/Clemson Syndrome." If you're not, here's a description:

For those unaware of this often debilitating condition, it's described as "the phenomenon by which fans of historically second-tier programs delude themselves into thinking that one isolated period of greatness -- Clemson's 1981 national title season -- is more representative of their team's rightful place in the sport's hierarchy than its other hundred or so years of football." Ole Miss took over Auburn's naming rights in 2004 when the Rebels ran off their most successful coach in 30 years, David Cutcliffe. His replacement, Ed Orgeron, is one heck of a recruiter, but he's also gone 8-22 in his three seasons to date. I'm guessing many of the same Rebels fans that got sick of attending the Independence Bowl would gladly take a trip to Shreveport next year.

As Mandel's used it more, the "syndrome" typically has a few common symptoms -

a) a good-but-not-great program,

b) an isolated period in that program's history when they WERE great,

c) fans believing said successful period should be the norm for the program,

d) a coach or coaches with generally successful track records who get fired for failing to return the program to its "glory years."



It's often used to explain the firings of David Cutcliffe at Ole Miss (44-29), Ralph Friedgen at Maryland (75-50), Bill Stewart of WVU (28-12), Mike Stoops of Arizona (poor overall record, but had elevated the program out of the cesspool and had 3 straight winning records, canned the minute they started losing again), Dennis Franchione of Texas A & M (32-28), and others.



Is BYU guilty of unrealistic expectations?

Yes. And that just makes us "fans"

I bet most fans are unrealistic.

The thing is, it was more than a single year. We played in the Holiday Bowl regularly and had very good seasons throughout Lavell's tenure. The fact that BYU took a dip in Lavell's last season and Crowton's failed attempt at head coaching doesn't mean that we're the Utards pounding our chests about two good seasons after decades of being terrible.

No, we do not. We do not fire successful coaches. In order to enter Syndrome mode, we would have to do that.



We do think that our rightful place is better than our history shows, though. We are traditionally a team in the top 12-25, but rarely better. We won it all once--like Clemson, but have had more sustained success over the past 40 years than they have. But expecting us to be a team in the top-10 year after year is not realistic. But we should see it at least once every 4-5 years, in my opinion, and we have not for far too long.

Maybe I am the only one but I am going to say yes, I am seeing some of the symptoms.

Nope.



But, if I were diagnosed with that syndrome, I'm fine with it. BYU #1.

This to me perfectly describes Utah.



They haven't completely invented an offensive scheme that has changed the very existence of football, nor won consistently with it for well over 20 years.



BYU fans do have the syndrome, but it's with their envy towards other programs, not BYU.

just because we're paranoid doesn't dismiss the existence of people out to get us.

Lawboy wrote:
No, we do not. We do not fire successful coaches. In order to enter Syndrome mode, we would have to do that.



We do think that our rightful place is better than our history shows, though. We are traditionally a team in the top 12-25, but rarely better. We won it all once--like Clemson, but have had more sustained success over the past 40 years than they have. But expecting us to be a team in the top-10 year after year is not realistic. But we should see it at least once every 4-5 years, in my opinion, and we have not for far too long.

Really. But you are right. We did not fire Norm Chow just ran him out of town. Even Lavell was nudged at the end or at least many fans thought he was past his prime. Anae was a good coach. He got more out of Heaps than Doman got. But the mantra was that 10 and 11 win seasons against MWC fodder did not cut it. BCS appearance and win would not suffice. That is good enough for Ute fans, but we wanted our NC.



BYU is a more storied program IMHO than Ole Miss or Clemson IMHO - maybe not Auburn, but many of our fans do think the first time we sign a top 35 recruiting class that those talented recruits will jump ahead of the slow white veterans and win a NC by their Soph seasons with no need to red-shirt.



BYU fans have BYU Syndrome. Utes have Ute Syndrome which is different - BCS win every few years with an undefeated season every 4 or 5 years probably makes them happy. BYU Syndrome is more like USC, ND, Ohio State, Texas, Okie, Florida syndrome - expect title game every year. Actually probably ND or Michigan - expecting it a little less now after a very long drought - but still expecting it every few years.



Most of those programs have top 10 classes on occasion and top 25 classes almost every year. BYU does not even come close to those talent levels - but want to assassinate Riley Nelson for only scoring 28 points Vs TCU.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
BCS appearance and win would not suffice. That is good enough for Ute fans, but we wanted our NC.



BYU fans have BYU Syndrome. Utes have Ute Syndrome which is different - BCS win every few years with an undefeated season every 4 or 5 years probably makes them happy. BYU Syndrome is more like USC, ND, Ohio State, Texas, Okie, Florida syndrome - expect title game every year. Actually probably ND or Michigan - expecting it a little less now after a very long drought - but still expecting it every few years.

You really don't think BYU fans would be happy with a BCS bowl every few years? I think you're exaggerating BYU syndrome. I don't think BYU fans have realistic yearly NC expectations like USC, Texas, Florida, 'bama fans do. Not to mention that a spot in the title game in the current system is basically impossible anyway for non-aq teams.



Yearly BCS-buster expectations, yes. NC expectations, no. Granted, Heaps' NC talk and talent and the class he came in with had a lot of us playing the "what-if" game in our daydreams, but I think very few of have expectations anywhere near the teams you mentioned.

Bib, I was referring specifically to firing head coaches, but I do hear you on the assistants. At times, BYU has made mistakes. Assistant turnover is part of the business, but nudging out successful assistant coaches is unusual. It was a mistake with Chow, but I do not think it was with Anae. Just my take.



I just want to see BYU get a deserved top10 ranking, with a BCS game prospect. NC to me, is a pipe dream right now. BCS can be done.

In 25 years we have one win over a team that finished in the top 10 and two first round draft picks. That's just a stark reminder of our overall level of play and talent level for the last quarter of a century, and why I'm thrilled that we've finished ranked 5 out of the last 6 years.

A

Dcr36 wrote:
If you guys regularly read Stewart Mandel (one of SI's main college football dudes) you're probably familiar with the phrase "Ole Miss/Clemson Syndrome." If you're not, here's a description:

For those unaware of this often debilitating condition, it's described as "the phenomenon by which fans of historically second-tier programs delude themselves into thinking that one isolated period of greatness -- Clemson's 1981 national title season -- is more representative of their team's rightful place in the sport's hierarchy than its other hundred or so years of football." Ole Miss took over Auburn's naming rights in 2004 when the Rebels ran off their most successful coach in 30 years, David Cutcliffe. His replacement, Ed Orgeron, is one heck of a recruiter, but he's also gone 8-22 in his three seasons to date. I'm guessing many of the same Rebels fans that got sick of attending the Independence Bowl would gladly take a trip to Shreveport next year.

As Mandel's used it more, the "syndrome" typically has a few common symptoms -

a) a good-but-not-great program,

b) an isolated period in that program's history when they WERE great,

c) fans believing said successful period should be the norm for the program,

d) a coach or coaches with generally successful track records who get fired for failing to return the program to its "glory years."



It's often used to explain the firings of David Cutcliffe at Ole Miss (44-29), Ralph Friedgen at Maryland (75-50), Bill Stewart of WVU (28-12), Mike Stoops of Arizona (poor overall record, but had elevated the program out of the cesspool and had 3 straight winning records, canned the minute they started losing again), Dennis Franchione of Texas A & M (32-28), and others.



Is BYU guilty of unrealistic expectations?

What! Next your going to tell me theres no Santa.



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Here is just one example of how BYU is different than Ole MIss and Clemson



http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2012/01/byu-football-did-you-know-10-win-season.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



But, I understand the sentiment. BYU has tasted the fruit at the top, and wants to taste it again and again.



Every 5 years or so, BYU has been at the top of something, maybe not winning the national championship, but Heisman, #5 ranking and NCAA record 14 wins, Doak Walker, beating a top 5 ranked team.



BYU hasn't broken through to the BCS while other "mid majors" have, so that makes it appear that BYU is living in the past more than it really is. While the present hasn't matched the past, and while others are having more success than BYU, BYU is still moving forward, playing consistently well, and doing things it has never done and that 95% of other schools envy.



And, fortunately, the real decision makers aren't caught up in the hype and expectations as much as fans are.

Lawboy wrote:
Bib, I was referring specifically to firing head coaches, but I do hear you on the assistants. At times, BYU has made mistakes. Assistant turnover is part of the business, but nudging out successful assistant coaches is unusual. It was a mistake with Chow, but I do not think it was with Anae. Just my take.



I just want to see BYU get a deserved top10 ranking, with a BCS game prospect. NC to me, is a pipe dream right now. BCS can be done.

This is what I hve been saying for several years. Before we go trying to "Beef Up" our schedule so that we can not only get a BCS Bowl but get the NC BCS Bowl when we go undefeated, let's just try to go undefeated with the schedules we have had. But it just seemed that many fans were not satisfied with doing what TCU, U, and BSU had done. They wanted to jump right past that and do what noen of those guys had done.



This is why I get frustrated with the 2 for 1s and 1 and dones and "unneutral" Neutral field games. TCU, U, and BSU did not do that when they had their success and now that they are starting to do that - did you see any of them in BCS Bowls this year? BSU stepped up from WAC to MWC and got WHACKED by TCU.



Huge opportnity for BYU - with BSU, DSU, U, TCU, Houston, and others now being in BCS. We should be th eBCS Buster. But I fear we have scheduled ouselves right out of th eopportunity to do it - unless Riley is beter an dmore durable than I think he wil be. I am a Riley guy. But I do think he will eventually prove to have some limits.

mormonrasta wrote:
In 25 years we have one win over a team that finished in the top 10 and two first round draft picks. That's just a stark reminder of our overall level of play and talent level for the last quarter of a century, and why I'm thrilled that we've finished ranked 5 out of the last 6 years.

Thank you for this reality check. We are who we are - and we can strive to improve - but reality is what it is - until we figure out how to change our realities.

What would seal the deal is if we were given entrance to the Big 12. We would slowly turn into mid level team to lower end, just like ksu, isu, etc. Wow would the BYU fans clamor for the good ole days of 10 win seasons vs patsies.