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Bronco's Day off in Fall practice

by frdbtr · 1/11/2012

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frdbtr
I keep hearing references about Bronco being "over his head" for feeling that his team was so prepared last fall that he gave the team 1 day off at the end of fall practice. I am getting a bit tired of it so I thought I would offer you a reason why I don't fault him for that assesment. Why didn't anyone in the media question that statement? If Bronco was so wrong in his belief, why didn't anyone question it in the media? (I ask again). Short answer is that everyone believed him. Why did everyone believe him? Because every indication in practice was that Heaps and the offense were clicking really well and it was going to manifest itself in games. I heard stuff from the media that was attending practice that Heaps looked as good in practice as John Beck did in 2006. That is saying something because Beck was shredding what turned out to be a very good defense in 06 in practice and didn't throw even 1 interception in fall practice that year. So, I give Bronco a pass that Heaps was an awesome practice player and didn't show up when it counted.
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Mars


So, who is paid to do the job of head coach at BYU, Bronco or the media?



KW at Utah always thinks his team is worse-prepared than they really are, going by what he tends to say to the media. Under-sell, Over-deliver. Recruits say they are more intense in practices, and that they practice for longer each day and more hours each week. Insiders say that Utah's program works much harder in the off-season and in the weight room. The eye test concurs.



Who should BYU fans blame? The media of course. That's not a deflection at all.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:


So, who is paid to do the job of head coach at BYU, Bronco or the media?



KW at Utah always thinks his team is worse-prepared than they really are, going by what he tends to say to the media. Under-sell, Over-deliver. Recruits say they are more intense in practices, and that they practice for longer each day and more hours each week. Insiders say that Utah's program works much harder in the off-season and in the weight room. The eye test concurs.



Who should BYU fans blame? The media of course. That's not a deflection at all.


Ah Yes, the great Kyle Whittingham. According to Cougarstats on the tweet:



"Utah has lost 4 or more games in 4 of their last 6 seasons, BYU has only once."



Yep whit is definately better then Bronco. I use the media as an example because they saw the same thing that Bronco saw in practice and if he was so off in his assesment of the team someone would have pointed it out. NO ONE including Bronco, doman and everyone who watched practice in the media and all of the fans forsaw the egg that Heaps was about to lay. I am personally sick of everyone bringing up the "day off" when critcizing Bronco.



As far as under selling, Bronco answers the media honestly when they ask him questions. The only thing wrong with that is when he is wrong fans come on these message boards and talk about him like he doesn't know what he is talking about. I personally find it refreshing, it shows he is human. He also puts good teams on the field every year, not once in a 7 year span (anyone say kyle whittingham?)
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rblack
Mars wrote:

Who should BYU fans blame?

No one. If we as fans expect perfection, the only thing we'll get is disappointment. BYU's offense looked good. Mendenhall had confidence in his defense. He gave everyone the day off. Even in retrospect, BYU's offensive problems weren't tied to insufficient number of reps, not enough practice time, or not enough preseason coaching. BYU struggled early in the year with the following: Offensive playcalling and Quarterback adjusting to live game situations. We could have practiced for another month and not been more ready for what was to come. Sometimes, there is no substitute for a live game situation. Maybe, the season would have gone better had we started with Idaho State and then proceeded with the teams we started with. Unfortunately, we started on the road twice and then played a rivalry game.
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Mars
rblack wrote:
Who should BYU fans blame?
No one. BYU's offensive problems weren't tied to insufficient number of reps, not enough practice time, or not enough preseason coaching. BYU struggled early in the year with the following: Offensive playcalling and Quarterback adjusting to live game situations. We could have practiced for another month and not been more ready for what was to come.

I think coaches SHOULD be held ACCOUNTABLE. Bronco is paid more than a lot of people.



Heaps MAIN problem was LACK OF PRACTICE. He was WORSE in 2011 than he was in 2010! Because he skipped almost every single off-season practice. Coming into Fall, BYU made short practices a habit, and took additional days off. Worse still, they almost never went live. The QB never got rushed for real, never got hit, never got sacked. He wasn't prepared for the real season. He panicked in live games, facing lives defenses for the first time in 8 months. That was all Bronco's fault. And Doman's. Most everything else is weak fan deflection.



Not to mention that NOT practicing helped BYU NOT know who to start, such as the TE battle, or Alisa at RB. Shirking responsibilities comes with consequences, and Bronco and his team are both very familiar and very comfortable with that. Which has begun to drive many in the fanbase crazy, turning even a weak 10-win season into cause for sadness and frustration.
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cougman
frdbtr wrote:



...Yep whit is definately better then Bronco. I use the media as an example because they saw the same thing that Bronco saw in practice and if he was so off in his assesment of the team someone would have pointed it out. NO ONE including Bronco, doman and everyone who watched practice in the media and all of the fans forsaw the egg that Heaps was about to lay. I am personally sick of everyone bringing up the "day off" when critcizing Bronco.


Unfortunately. You're right (even though it was an attempt at sarcasm). Head to head records don't lie. Matter of fact, neither do BCS records.


frdbtr wrote:
...Bronco answers the media honestly when they ask him questions.


After the team lost to Utah, he was asked if he felt like the team quit to which he replied "No." Anyone who saw that game, knows that the defense completely quit. I guess it might not be lying by definition if he truly believes that they didn't quit on him, but then I would cite how out of touch he is.


frdbtr wrote:
I personally find it refreshing, it shows he is human.


Bronco is an incredible human being and represents the school and church in a fantastic manner. Does anyone dispute that?


frdbtr wrote:
He also puts good teams on the field every year, not once in a 7 year span (anyone say kyle whittingham?)


That's funny. Here are Whittinghams' win totals.

2011 - 8 wins

2010 - 10 wins

2009 - 10 wins

2008 - 13 wins (BCS Win over Alabama)

2007 - 9 wins

2006 - 8 wins

2005 - 7 wins

Total 65



Broncos'

2011 - 10

2010 - 7

2009 - 11

2008 - 10

2007 - 11

2006 - 11

2005 - 6

Total 66



I guess you could argue that BM has maybe been a little more consistent, but I'm pretty sure everyone in the world would take a BCS victory and #2 or #3 ranking or whatever they were in place of that one extra win and the consistent mediocrity we get. Not to mention, they are winning the head to head match up.



I will say that it's stupid of people to bring up the "day off" reason for our problems. That's a stretch and in my opinion a bit ridiculous. I do believe BM is in over his head, but certainly not for giving the kids the day off.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
Mars wrote:
Who should BYU fans blame?
No one. BYU's offensive problems weren't tied to insufficient number of reps, not enough practice time, or not enough preseason coaching. BYU struggled early in the year with the following: Offensive playcalling and Quarterback adjusting to live game situations. We could have practiced for another month and not been more ready for what was to come.

I think coaches SHOULD be held ACCOUNTABLE. Bronco is paid more than a lot of people.



Heaps MAIN problem was LACK OF PRACTICE. He was WORSE in 2011 than he was in 2010! Because he skipped almost every single off-season practice. Coming into Fall, BYU made short practices a habit, and took additional days off. Worse still, they almost never went live. The QB never got rushed for real, never got hit, never got sacked. He wasn't prepared for the real season. He panicked in live games, facing lives defenses for the first time in 8 months. That was all Bronco's fault. And Doman's. Most everything else is weak fan deflection.



Not to mention that NOT practicing helped BYU NOT know who to start, such as the TE battle, or Alisa at RB. Shirking responsibilities comes with consequences, and Bronco and his team are both very familiar and very comfortable with that. Which has begun to drive many in the fanbase crazy, turning even a weak 10-win season into cause for sadness and frustration.


Since you know what the problem is, what is your solution? Off season workouts are voluntary it is an NCAA rules violation to make them mandatory so what is bronco supposed to do? As far as the TE's they played pretty well this year, and actually out performed what they did last year even though we lost nearly all of them to injury.



As far as short practices and taking practices off, it didn't seem to hurt Max Hall. The bottom line is, BYU has been pretty darn good with Bronco as the HC, better then the great kyle whittingham who you have stated works harder and drives his team harder then Bronco.
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Lawboy
1-2 starts in 5 of 7 seasons speaks volumes to me. It means we are underprepared coming out of Fall Camp compared to our opponents. Why? Summer and Fall is why. That falls on the players and coaches. Coaches need to have programs in place for the summer, overseen by the S & C coach, where the guys get it done. And the players need to show up and get it done. Instead, we take 3+ games to get ready to go. And some units take all year, and still look unprepared to play at times.



Bronco showed last year that more intensity works with his team. OR at least with the D. I think the O needs to same approach. Why he does not stick with that approach in early Fall and up to game week prep is beyond me.
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BroncoBot
1-2 in 5 of 7 years says to me that BYU schedules a tough front end schedule. If Bronco's teams weren't prepared they wouldn't have 5-2 opening day record. It also says that Bronco adjusts well because otherwise the 1-2 ratio would have extended into the rest of the season. BYU has lost to some tough teams on the road during that span. It's not a concern for me. If he was losing to UNLV at LES in week 2, then sure, I'd have a problem with it.
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Mars
frdbtr wrote:
Since you know what the problem is, what is your solution? Off season workouts are voluntary it is an NCAA rules violation to make them mandatory so what is bronco supposed to do?



As far as the TE's they played pretty well this year, and actually out performed what they did last year even though we lost nearly all of them to injury.



As far as short practices and taking practices off, it didn't seem to hurt Max Hall.

What do you think Saban does when it comes to off-season workouts? Players report to him and it affects the starting line-up.



Who were our #1 and #2 TEs coming into this season? The coaches certainly didn't know, and even then they were off-base. Stupid decision-making. Been going on for years now.



Didn't hurt Max Hall? What, he never threw an interception? He played awesome against Utah in multiple seasons? No, Hall stepped up and tried to do the job that the coaches weren't doing, and did it much better than Heaps could. Still a gap between our coaching and the coaching in better programs, like BSU and TCU.
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frdbtr
cougman wrote:



...Yep whit is definately better then Bronco. I use the media as an example because they saw the same thing that Bronco saw in practice and if he was so off in his assesment of the team someone would have pointed it out. NO ONE including Bronco, doman and everyone who watched practice in the media and all of the fans forsaw the egg that Heaps was about to lay. I am personally sick of everyone bringing up the "day off" when critcizing Bronco.


Unfortunately. You're right (even though it was an attempt at sarcasm). Head to head records don't lie. Matter of fact, neither do BCS records.


frdbtr wrote:
...Bronco answers the media honestly when they ask him questions.


After the team lost to Utah, he was asked if he felt like the team quit to which he replied "No." Anyone who saw that game, knows that the defense completely quit. I guess it might not be lying by definition if he truly believes that they didn't quit on him, but then I would cite how out of touch he is.


frdbtr wrote:
I personally find it refreshing, it shows he is human.


Bronco is an incredible human being and represents the school and church in a fantastic manner. Does anyone dispute that?


frdbtr wrote:
He also puts good teams on the field every year, not once in a 7 year span (anyone say kyle whittingham?)


That's funny. Here are Whittinghams' win totals.

2011 - 8 wins

2010 - 10 wins

2009 - 10 wins

2008 - 13 wins (BCS Win over Alabama)

2007 - 9 wins

2006 - 8 wins

2005 - 7 wins

Total 65



Broncos'

2011 - 10

2010 - 7

2009 - 11

2008 - 10

2007 - 11

2006 - 11

2005 - 6

Total 66



I guess you could argue that BM has maybe been a little more consistent, but I'm pretty sure everyone in the world would take a BCS victory and #2 or #3 ranking or whatever they were in place of that one extra win and the consistent mediocrity we get. Not to mention, they are winning the head to head match up.



I will say that it's stupid of people to bring up the "day off" reason for our problems. That's a stretch and in my opinion a bit ridiculous. I do believe BM is in over his head, but certainly not for giving the kids the day off.


Would you like me to show you the MWC standings during those years? The only thing that whit has on Bronco is the better head to head record. whit is a master at devising defensive game plans that BYU hasn't seen all year, but his record against other competition shows that it actually hurts utah overall. Yes the ute fans get to lord it over us becuase of it but I would rather win the conference or have 10 win seasons with inferior talent.



Actually, I will tell you the conference record for those years



2005 BYU 2nd in the conference utah tied for 4th.

2006, BYU 1st in the conference utah tied for 3rd

2007 BYU 1st utah tied for 3rd

2008 BYU 3rd, utah 1st

2009 BYU 2nd, utah 3rd

2010 BYU tied for 3rd utah 2nd



So along with those better overall records, BYU beat utah in the conference standings 4 out of 6 years. All with less talent then utah has had over that same period of time. I can't count this year for conference so All we have to go in is overall record which BYU wins again. I am so sick of BYU fans bemoaning the fact that utah won a BCS bowl with whit as their head coach. If BYU would have had the talent that utah has had over that same period of time we would have done as well or better then they did. Bronco is a terrific coach and BYU is lucky to have him.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
Since you know what the problem is, what is your solution? Off season workouts are voluntary it is an NCAA rules violation to make them mandatory so what is bronco supposed to do?



As far as the TE's they played pretty well this year, and actually out performed what they did last year even though we lost nearly all of them to injury.



As far as short practices and taking practices off, it didn't seem to hurt Max Hall.

What do you think Saban does when it comes to off-season workouts? Players report to him and it affects the starting line-up.



Who were our #1 and #2 TEs coming into this season? The coaches certainly didn't know, and even then they were off-base. Stupid decision-making. Been going on for years now.



Didn't hurt Max Hall? What, he never threw an interception? He played awesome against Utah in multiple seasons? No, Hall stepped up and tried to do the job that the coaches weren't doing, and did it much better than Heaps could. Still a gap between our coaching and the coaching in better programs, like BSU and TCU.


Saban has the best players money can buy, I have little doubt that "voluntary" over the summer means little to him as far as an NCAA violation goes. Do you want a cheater or a coach that values staying within the rules of the NCAA and still wins 10+ games a year doing it?
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Lawboy
declocoug wrote:
1-2 in 5 of 7 years says to me that BYU schedules a tough front end schedule. If Bronco's teams weren't prepared they wouldn't have 5-2 opening day record. It also says that Bronco adjusts well because otherwise the 1-2 ratio would have extended into the rest of the season. BYU has lost to some tough teams on the road during that span. It's not a concern for me. If he was losing to UNLV at LES in week 2, then sure, I'd have a problem with it.


Except we are not losing to many great teams in those 1-2 starts. Good teams maybe, not great. WHich means we are losing to too many good teams, and not beating enough of them.



Case in point:

2011

Ole MIss 14-13 win.

Texas 17-16 loss

Utah 54-10 loss



2010

UW 23-17 win

AFA 35-10 loss

FSU 34-13 loss



2007

Arizona win 20-7

UCLA loss 27-17 (beat them in bowl)

uUlsa loss 54-47



2006

Arizona loss 16-13

Tulsa win 49-24

BC Loss 30-23 OT



2005



First season rebuild. I give a pass.



Tell me, out of all of those games, other than Florida State in 2010 games were to great teams that we could not have beaten. And should not have beaten?
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BroncoBot
Lawboy wrote:
1-2 in 5 of 7 years says to me that BYU schedules a tough front end schedule. If Bronco's teams weren't prepared they wouldn't have 5-2 opening day record. It also says that Bronco adjusts well because otherwise the 1-2 ratio would have extended into the rest of the season. BYU has lost to some tough teams on the road during that span. It's not a concern for me. If he was losing to UNLV at LES in week 2, then sure, I'd have a problem with it.


Except we are not losing to many great teams in those 1-2 starts. Good teams maybe, not great. WHich means we are losing to too many good teams, and not beating enough of them.



Case in point:

2011

Ole MIss 14-13 win.

Texas 17-16 loss

Utah 54-10 loss



2010

UW 23-17 win

AFA 35-10 loss

FSU 34-13 loss



2007

Arizona win 20-7

UCLA loss 27-17 (beat them in bowl)

uUlsa loss 54-47



2006

Arizona loss 16-13

Tulsa win 49-24

BC Loss 30-23 OT



2005



First season rebuild. I give a pass.



Tell me, out of all of those games, other than Florida State in 2010 games were to great teams that we could not have beaten. And should not have beaten?


BYU COULD have won all of them hypothetically. BC was a solid team lead by a superb college QB (Ryan). Not a bad loss. And the Arizona game is one phantom OFFENSIVE pass interference call and some bad luck (Harline fumble) away from a win. UCLA in 07, tough loss, but that was a good team who matched up well with BYU (should have blown them out in the bowl as well, but they played us well that year).



2010. Injured Riley against AFA who was a good-great team that year, and an obviously-in-hindsight-unprepared Heaps as backup with a heavy front scheduled doomed that year to a terrible start. No 2-3 days of practice was going to have Heaps ready to take over the offense in 2010.



2011. It was all hype. Heaps was hype, the line was hype, the RBs were hype, the abs and hair were hype (or were they?). Looking back it's amazing that BYU only lost 3 games. BYU was not that strong in 2011 and STILL almost beat Texas at Texas and then proceeded to get pummeled by a Utah team that peaked early and declined from there. BYU also had it's closest finish with TCU in recent years. Not bad, but a lot of room for improvement. We'll see in about 9 months.



My point was, I think that having those teams at the beginning of the year is the reason we start 1-2. They were just good teams more than BYU was unprepared. If that same schedule played out later in the year maybe we are discussing why Bronco can't finish a year strong. Who knows.



Again, BYU beat equally good teams in the first week of the season many of those years, so the preparation is there. BYU just has a habit of losing to a couple of the better teams on its schedule. Just like most college teams.
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Mars
frdbtr wrote:
I am so sick of BYU fans bemoaning the fact that utah won a BCS bowl with whit as their head coach. If BYU would have had the talent that utah has had over that same period of time we would have done as well or better then they did.

Judging by Scout, BYU has done much less with much BETTER players. If Utah had had the caliber of recruits BYU has had, judging by Scout they would have played in a couple more BCS games by now.
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cougman
Mars wrote:
I am so sick of BYU fans bemoaning the fact that utah won a BCS bowl with whit as their head coach. If BYU would have had the talent that utah has had over that same period of time we would have done as well or better then they did.

Judging by Scout, BYU has done much less with much BETTER players. If Utah had had the caliber of recruits BYU has had, judging by Scout they would have played in a couple more BCS games by now.


Furthermore, suppose Utah does have the superior talent (which I do not think they do), wouldn't that reflect on the coaches' ability to recruit?
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Mars
cougman wrote:
Furthermore, suppose Utah does have the superior talent (which I do not think they do), wouldn't that reflect on the coaches' ability to recruit?

There's identifying talent, there is identifying program fits (Kory Gaines & Drew Phillips & Lee Aguirre anyone?), and there's coaching up talent. Does BYU play their recruits at the right positions? Do they start the right guys (Nelson/Heaps, DiLuigi/Alisa, Jacobsen/Falslev)? Do they teach them at an elite level? Or do they waste guys like Jake Heaps & Richard Wilson & Jray Galeai & O'Neill Chambers & Mike Hague?
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
I am so sick of BYU fans bemoaning the fact that utah won a BCS bowl with whit as their head coach. If BYU would have had the talent that utah has had over that same period of time we would have done as well or better then they did.

Judging by Scout, BYU has done much less with much BETTER players. If Utah had had the caliber of recruits BYU has had, judging by Scout they would have played in a couple more BCS games by now.


Do I really have to post the NFL draft numbers again or do you guys just want to look up the last thread where I posted how utah has put more players in the NFL over the last few years then even TCU? 2004 decimated our talent and despite ignorant fans thinking that freshman recruits come in and play like all americans as freshman. At BYU we still have guys that were recruited in 2006 and 2007 coming in and barely starting to contribute due to missions. Yes, BYU has recruited some good players but in 2010 and 2011, those players are barely starting to be sophomores and Juniors. We are going to see how good Bronco recruits talent in the next couple of years. On the other hand, the great one (kyle whittingham) took an undefeated 2004 team and with that talent that has put many players in the NFL since, has finished behind BYU in the MWC standing 4 out of 6 years and had less wins in most of those years as well. Don't tell me Bronco is over his head. Would you rather game plan all off season to beat utah and then finish with a worse record and maybe get lucky and go undefeated once, or would you rather game plan to get better every game, win 10+ games per year? I know what I prefer, I guess a lot of you would prefer the other.
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Metallicat
cougman wrote:
I do believe BM is in over his head, but certainly not for giving the kids the day off.


In over his head? :lol: Did you type that with a straight face? A Division 1 Football coach wins 10 or more games 5 out of his first 7 seasons, consistently ranked in the top 25 while juggling missions and enforcing an honor code most D1 atheletes would laugh at, and you think he is "in over his head"? Wow. Just Wow.



A list of people in over their heads might include:



Locksley down at UNM

Utah's basketball team

Rich Rod at Michigan

The Iranian Navy vs the US Navy

Idaho St in Provo

Michelle Bachman



Those are examples of people in over their heads. Bronco has done an outstanding job. Is he perfect? No. But to say he is in over his head with the amount of success he's had is completely stupid.
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northerncougar
frdbtr wrote:
I keep hearing references about Bronco being "over his head" for feeling that his team was so prepared last fall that he gave the team 1 day off at the end of fall practice. I am getting a bit tired of it so I thought I would offer you a reason why I don't fault him for that assesment. Why didn't anyone in the media question that statement? If Bronco was so wrong in his belief, why didn't anyone question it in the media? (I ask again). Short answer is that everyone believed him. Why did everyone believe him? Because every indication in practice was that Heaps and the offense were clicking really well and it was going to manifest itself in games. I heard stuff from the media that was attending practice that Heaps looked as good in practice as John Beck did in 2006. That is saying something because Beck was shredding what turned out to be a very good defense in 06 in practice and didn't throw even 1 interception in fall practice that year. So, I give Bronco a pass that Heaps was an awesome practice player and didn't show up when it counted.


Uh, wow. You are one of my favorite posters on this board, but you blew this one. Put the shovel down and walk away from this. Blaming the media for not fixing Bronco is laughable and stupid.



He blew it this year. He hyped this team by what he said and did. This team didn't live up to the expectations he set. That is on him. No one else. The buck stops with him. If fans want to create unrealistic expectations that is their problem. When the head coach pours gas on that fire, that he started, it is all on him.



As lawboy said, 1-2 starts are a very telling thing. It is is a huge problem and very scary indicator of where Bronco is taking this program. He talks often of an NC, but he can't even get through September with that as an option.
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