ASU after K-Whitt

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/31522/asu-after-utahs-whittingham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



interesting rumor.



discuss!

Saw this morning on Twitter that Kwhitt signed a new deal with Utah. Didn't read the link for details because, hey, it's Utah.

Probably used ASU to get an extension.

scott715 wrote:
Probably used ASU to get an extension.

Kwhitt uses a school every time he wants more money. ASU is angry because he didn't even offer to pay for ASUs taxi this morning.

I think it speaks volumes about Utah's place in the PAC12.



Utah (7-5, #3 PAC12 South) had to give their 8 year coach an extension and a raise to keep him from going to ASU (6-6, #3 PAC12 South). Utah is still nothing more than a step-child in the BCS family.

snoscythe wrote:
I think it speaks volumes about Utah's place in the PAC12.



Utah (7-5, #3 PAC12 South) had to give their 8 year coach an extension and a raise to keep him from going to ASU (6-6, #3 PAC12 South). Utah is still nothing more than a step-child in the BCS family.

great point.

snoscythe wrote:
I think it speaks volumes about Utah's place in the PAC12.



Utah (7-5, #3 PAC12 South) had to give their 8 year coach an extension and a raise to keep him from going to ASU (6-6, #3 PAC12 South). Utah is still nothing more than a step-child in the BCS family.

Bingo! My sentiments exactly last Sept. It will be many years till Utah challenges for a PAC-12 Championship.



With USC coming off probation - they will be stronger than ever. With the new coach @ UCLA - 2 years and they beat Utah.

snoscythe wrote:
I think it speaks volumes about Utah's place in the PAC12.



Utah (7-5, #3 PAC12 South) had to give their 8 year coach an extension and a raise to keep him from going to ASU (6-6, #3 PAC12 South). Utah is still nothing more than a step-child in the BCS family.

Utah is not USC. But here is the difference. If still in the MWC - Utah could not have given a competitive raise and KWhitt would be headed for ASU, UCLA, or someplace else. Utah cannot expect to keep a well-respected coach and not pay competitively. When June Jones is making north of $2M at SMU - KWhitt deserves $2M or more at Utah.



But if one of the really big time programs that routinely cough up $3-4M for a coach comes calling - Utah will not be able to match the money and they better hope the Whittinghams can't fathom leaving SLC.



BYU - otoh - seems to be able to keep pretty decent coaches while paying well below market value. But they have to find a top coach that buys into the mission of BYU and the Church and is willing to sacrifice for it. Short list. KWhitt isn't on that list. He turned it down.

Cougarbib2 wrote:

I think it speaks volumes about Utah's place in the PAC12.



Utah (7-5, #3 PAC12 South) had to give their 8 year coach an extension and a raise to keep him from going to ASU (6-6, #3 PAC12 South). Utah is still nothing more than a step-child in the BCS family.

Utah is not USC. But here is the difference. If still in the MWC - Utah couldnot have given a competitive raise and KWhitt would be headed for ASU, UCLA, or someplace else. Utah cannot expect to keep a well-respected coach an dnot pay competitively. WHen June Jones is making north of $2M at SMU - KWhitt deserves $2M or more at Utah.



But if one of the really big time programs that routinely cough up $3-4M for a coach come calling - Utah will not be able to match the money and they better hope the Whittinghams can't fathom leaving SLC.



BYU - otoh - seems to be able to keep pretty decent coaches while paying well below market value. But they have ot find a top coach that buys into th emisson of BYU and the Church and is willing to sacrifice for it. Short list. KWhitt isn't on that list. He turned it down.

And thank goodness he did, BYU wouldn't have nearly the record it has had if Kwhitt had come to BYU. We and he both dodged a major bullet by him going to Utah.



In the end, I think ASU just dodged a bullet too. Kwhitt is a good, emotional rah-rah guy, but he's not consistent nor good enough to be a coach at a program that wants to be big time.

and yet their respective records are nearly identical with the exception of a couple of BCS bowls.

CougarClaw wrote:
and yet their respective records are nearly identical with the exception of a couple of BCS bowls.

Kyle Whittingham is a better football coach than Bronco Mendenhall and even in a disappointing year like this was for the Utes, his name shows up on short lists.



Bronco is a better BYU football coach than KWhitt. Hopefully fans will continue to appreciate him. He is likely the best possible BYU football coach right now.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:

and yet their respective records are nearly identical with the exception of a couple of BCS bowls.

Kyle Whittingham is a better football coach than Bronco Mendenhall and even in a disappointing year like this was for the Utes, his name shows up on short lists.



Bronco is a better BYU football coach than KWhitt. Hopefully fans will continue to appreciate him. He is likely the best possible BYU football coach right now.



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I don't think he's a better coach than Bronco. I don't think either guy is truly an elite college fb coach. The benefit for us is that we needed a mission president coach after Crowton, we got that in Bronco, we wouldn't have in Kwhitt. Other than that they are fairly even with Bronco having a slight edge based on consistency.



What it really comes down to is if you want a bipolar coach or a consistent coach.

whittingham is not a better coach then Bronco Mendenhall by any comparison. What Bronco has done at BYU after the mess of 2004 has been phenominal. What whitt has done at utah after having been handed an undefeated team would have gotten him fired at BYU. He reminded me of a blind man throwing darts in 2005 thru the first half of 2007 and then hit lightning in a bottle in 2008 (with TCU handing them a win with their kicker missing 3 chip shot fg's that would have won the game for them). The only thing that whit has on Bronco is a better head to head record which, once again, would have been different if the talent pools had been reversed.



EDIT: not only that but Max Hall was right about what he said about utah after BYU"s win in 2009 and it all starts with coach whitt. We could start a new thread and keep it going for a long time naming all the classless things he has done at utah as the HC.

frdbtr wrote:
whittingham is not a better coach then Bronco Mendenhall by any comparison.

I'm all for the blue-goggled approach here, but this is just blatantly false. By any comparison?

here are a few- feel free to dispute them if you like but facts are stubborn things:



BCS bowls: Utah

Head to Head record: Utah

margin of victory in head to head games: Utah

Bowl Wins: Utah

More players sent to the NFL: Utah

BCS conference coach: Utah

Higher Coaching salary: Utah

and I'm sure there are more. Sure Bronco beat Kwhitt in other categories and is the better coach for BYU but give the Utes credit for their success and their coach.

CougarClaw wrote:

whittingham is not a better coach then Bronco Mendenhall by any comparison.

I'm all for the blue-goggled approach here, but this is just blatantly false. By any comparison?

here are a few- feel free to dispute them if you like but facts are stubborn things:



BCS bowls: Utah

Head to Head record: Utah

margin of victory in head to head games: Utah

Bowl Wins: Utah

More players sent to the NFL: Utah

BCS conference coach: Utah

Higher Coaching salary: Utah

and I'm sure there are more. Sure Bronco beat Kwhitt in other categories and is the better coach for BYU but give the Utes credit for their success and their coach.

Being in a BCS conference or making more $$ makes you a better coach? Wow, that's news.



It's obvious you prefer a bi-polar coach. I do not.

CougarClaw wrote:

whittingham is not a better coach then Bronco Mendenhall by any comparison.

I'm all for the blue-goggled approach here, but this is just blatantly false. By any comparison?

here are a few- feel free to dispute them if you like but facts are stubborn things:



BCS bowls: Utah

Head to Head record: Utah

margin of victory in head to head games: Utah

Bowl Wins: Utah

More players sent to the NFL: Utah

BCS conference coach: Utah

Higher Coaching salary: Utah

and I'm sure there are more. Sure Bronco beat Kwhitt in other categories and is the better coach for BYU but give the Utes credit for their success and their coach.

You proved my point for me and didn't even know it.

and who recruited and developed those recruits? Whose connections got them noticed, hyped and drafted? You're going to say the coach had little or nothing to do with the success of his players?

Gurney must be reading our board today because he tweeted something interesting that proves my point on the mess Bronco took over in 2005:



BrandonCGurneyBrandon Gurney

"16 of the 28 players signed in 2004 did not finish their careers at BYU...a lot of them never played a down for BYU"



BYU lost half it's 2004 recruiting class. I can't emphasize how devistating that is to a college football team. Recruiting is the life blood of a successful organization, that is why recruiting restrictions are given as a punishment to teams that break the rules. This year is the first year that we have actually had depth at some of the positions that were devistated by that issue in 2004. 2010 and 2011 have been rebuilding years as we have played a ton of freshman as starters the last couple of years. I think that you are going to see a more mature and dominant team in the next few years. And 2011 hasn't been too bad since we will probably get another 10 win season this year.

CougarClaw wrote:
and who recruited and developed those recruits? Whose connections got them noticed, hyped and drafted? You're going to say the coach had little or nothing to do with the success of his players?

Bronco has been filling recruiting holes caused by the 2004 debacle with walk ons. Seriously. utah handed Kyle whittinham a 12-0 undefeated team that has put 5 players a year in the NFL since 2004 and BYU handed Bronco a team devistated with over half its 2004 recruiting class kicked off the team due to suspension or being academically inelligable. Of course Bronco is responsible for putting kids in the NFL, but if you don't have the talent to start with, NFL scouts aren't going to pick the kids from your team on draft day.

hawkwing wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
whittingham is not a better coach then Bronco Mendenhall by any comparison.

I'm all for the blue-goggled approach here, but this is just blatantly false. By any comparison?

here are a few- feel free to dispute them if you like but facts are stubborn things:



BCS bowls: Utah

Head to Head record: Utah

margin of victory in head to head games: Utah

Bowl Wins: Utah

More players sent to the NFL: Utah

BCS conference coach: Utah

Higher Coaching salary: Utah

and I'm sure there are more. Sure Bronco beat Kwhitt in other categories and is the better coach for BYU but give the Utes credit for their success and their coach.

Being in a BCS conference or making more $$ makes you a better coach? Wow, that's news.



It's obvious you prefer a bi-polar coach. I do not.

the original statement was that there are no comparisons under which Whitt was a better coach. Money is a holder of value and is a valid comparison. Does that make him a "better"coach? well, define "better"?Wouldn't I be accurate to say that the AD in Utah "values" their coach more than BYU does?



and I don't prefer Whittingham to Bronco, nor do I like bi-polar, yelling, Majerus-type coaches on the teams I support. but that wasn't the statement in question either.