Bronco Has Three Years

In three years we will know who's predictions about Heaps and BYU are correct. It might be sooner than that but no later.



Right now the best case scenario for Heaps is the worst for Bronco and vice versa. If he ends up winning a national championship somewhere else his senior year, it seems obvious to me that Bronco and company blew this opportunity and should be fired. If Heaps fails or is avg at best, then we know that Bronco handled this well.



Personally, I will be watching closely what Heaps does as it will have an affect on what could have been at BYU.



I also believe that Bronco's job is not in danger in any way, shape, or form based on Heaps future. Bronco will not be limited to three years.

I think it will be an indictment on Doman's abilities to groom a pro style offense QB if Heaps goes elsewhere and takes off with a new QB coach. Jake was the guy all last spring, all summer and all Fall camp, yet he regressed. Something was clearly missing, and it was clear starting in the Ole Miss game. The offense and scheme sucked. Our running game was horrid. The line run blocking was dreadful. And it continued until Riley came in and started. The scheme--up until Riley started--was garbage. Our players did not execute it all. You go pro style--you have to be able to run it well. We couldn't. So a switch was made. Not just QB either. Scheme as well.



Riley is not a traditional QB--he is more play maker. His best plays and highlights come from broken plays. Jake struggled with that on most occasions. Riley and his scrambling cover up other issues for BYU. That also means he gave the team a better chance to win right now. Playing him was the right decision.



I am just pissed off it all went down as it did. The locker room issues. The inter-family issues. That Band of Brothers T Bronco wears was a huge plea to his team this year--not a statement like it was in 2006.



Regardless, glad we can move on from this. That QB drama lasted 2 years, which is way too long. And that is on the coaches. I hope they learn from this. Redshirt your freshman QB. Always. ALWAYS.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it will be an indictment on Doman's abilities to groom a pro style offense QB if Heaps goes elsewhere and takes off with a new QB coach. Jake was the guy all last spring, all summer and all Fall camp, yet he regressed. Something was clearly missing, and it was clear starting in the Ole Miss game. The offense and scheme sucked. Our running game was horrid. The line run blocking was dreadful. And it continued until Riley came in and started. The scheme--up until Riley started--was garbage. Our players did not execute it all. You go pro style--you have to be able to run it well. We couldn't. So a switch was made. Not just QB either. Scheme as well.



Riley is not a traditional QB--he is more play maker. His best plays and highlights come from broken plays. Jake struggled with that on most occasions. Riley and his scrambling cover up other issues for BYU. That also means he gave the team a better chance to win right now. Playing him was the right decision.



I am just pissed off it all went down as it did. The locker room issues. The inter-family issues. That Band of Brothers T Bronco wears was a huge plea to his team this year--not a statement like it was in 2006.



Regardless, glad we can move on from this. That QB drama lasted 2 years, which is way too long. And that is on the coaches. I hope they learn from this. Redshirt your freshman QB. Always. ALWAYS.

I agree with what you are saying 100%. But if it ends up as an indictment on Doman, then it must begin with Bronco. If we find out the problem was having the wrong coach to develop Heaps, then Bronco made the worst hire in his tenure by not going after a big time coach to handle the offense.

One lost recruit does not a career make. Especially during the turbulent time of learning how to be an OC; which btw, he's turning out to be a pretty good one.



I choose Doman over Heaps every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I don't know that what Heaps does or doesn't do in the next few years will prove anything about what he would have done if he stayed. Different set of circumstances can completely change the game. Sometimes a clean split is what both parties need to grow and reach higher levels.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it will be an indictment on Doman's abilities to groom a pro style offense QB if Heaps goes elsewhere and takes off with a new QB coach. Jake was the guy all last spring, all summer and all Fall camp, yet he regressed. Something was clearly missing, and it was clear starting in the Ole Miss game. The offense and scheme sucked. Our running game was horrid. The line run blocking was dreadful. And it continued until Riley came in and started. The scheme--up until Riley started--was garbage. Our players did not execute it all. You go pro style--you have to be able to run it well. We couldn't. So a switch was made. Not just QB either. Scheme as well.



Riley is not a traditional QB--he is more play maker. His best plays and highlights come from broken plays. Jake struggled with that on most occasions. Riley and his scrambling cover up other issues for BYU. That also means he gave the team a better chance to win right now. Playing him was the right decision.



I am just pissed off it all went down as it did. The locker room issues. The inter-family issues. That Band of Brothers T Bronco wears was a huge plea to his team this year--not a statement like it was in 2006.



Regardless, glad we can move on from this. That QB drama lasted 2 years, which is way too long. And that is on the coaches. I hope they learn from this. Redshirt your freshman QB. Always. ALWAYS.

Read this from Harmon's article:



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700204236/Jake-Heaps-Cougars-couldnt-make-it-work.html?pg=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



"Switch to the night of Sept. 30, 2011, in LaVell Edwards Stadium. Jake's wife Brooke watched her husband get benched as BYU trailed late against Utah State. As his replacement Riley Nelson sparked a Cougar comeback, several rows behind her, members of Nelson's family (not his mom and dad) were observed yelling down at Brooke, "Why aren't you cheering now?"



In tears, Brooke witnessed the victory but never attended another BYU game.



Why the hell would I ever want to be a Riley fan if he's anything like his family?? The whole upperclassmen entitlement garbage makes me sick. KVN isn't even getting the starting nod because of the same issue. The team and BM have issues.

northerncougar wrote:
In three years we will know who's predictions about Heaps and BYU are correct. It might be sooner than that but no later.



Right now the best case scenario for Heaps is the worst for Bronco and vice versa. If he ends up winning a national championship somewhere else his senior year, it seems obvious to me that Bronco and company blew this opportunity and should be fired. If Heaps fails or is avg at best, then we know that Bronco handled this well.



Personally, I will be watching closely what Heaps does as it will have an affect on what could have been at BYU.



I also believe that Bronco's job is not in danger in any way, shape, or form based on Heaps future. Bronco will not be limited to three years.

I think Bronco is pretty safe then. From 1999 to 2008 there have been 44 Elite 11 QBs, and just 4 won National Championships as the starting QB (Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Chris Leak and Tim Tebow). In fact, if you are an Elite 11 QB you are twice as likely to win a National Championship as a backup than you are as a starter (Matt Cassell, JaMarcus Russell, Cornelius Ingram, John David Booty, Ryan Perriloux, Neil Caudle, John Brantley, Jarrett Lee). And none of them won as a transfer.

Wow...you're really giving Heaps that much power even when he's no longer on the team?

I think the coaches made some mistakes, and I think they would admit as much. They're not perfect. Bronco makes errors on redshirt decisions from time to time. Doman makes errors with his game planning and play calling. They also make errors with how they handle players. and how they assess talent at times. (See Alisa, RN 2010 assessment, Tree in the slot on pass cover, early season pro style sets, etc).



Let's not act like they are all grown men, either. Many are young kids. Some get it quick, some take longer. But team drama and family issues are bush league. Total bush league. Many here wanted to ignore them and deny they existed. This team has had locker room issues, has had senior player & RM entitlement issues. Bronco is trying to build a culture that worked in 2006 after Crowton, but morphed into something else in 2010, and it carried on in 2011. Expect some changes. They are coming. And I think BYU and this staff will be better for it.



Hard lessons can often lead to needed improvements. I expect that here.

Beating Utah might be a step in the right direction.

Isola wrote:

In three years we will know who's predictions about Heaps and BYU are correct. It might be sooner than that but no later.



Right now the best case scenario for Heaps is the worst for Bronco and vice versa. If he ends up winning a national championship somewhere else his senior year, it seems obvious to me that Bronco and company blew this opportunity and should be fired. If Heaps fails or is avg at best, then we know that Bronco handled this well.



Personally, I will be watching closely what Heaps does as it will have an affect on what could have been at BYU.



I also believe that Bronco's job is not in danger in any way, shape, or form based on Heaps future. Bronco will not be limited to three years.

I think Bronco is pretty safe then. From 1999 to 2008 there have been 44 Elite 11 QBs, and just 4 won National Championships as the starting QB (Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Chris Leak and Tim Tebow). In fact, if you are an Elite 11 QB you are twice as likely to win a National Championship as a backup than you are as a starter (Matt Cassell, JaMarcus Russell, Cornelius Ingram, John David Booty, Ryan Perriloux, Neil Caudle, John Brantley, Jarrett Lee). And none of them won as a transfer.

:crazy: Yep. You understood my point perfectly.

Gunk wrote:
Wow...you're really giving Heaps that much power even when he's no longer on the team?

No. Just the opposite.

Funny how all this talk about locker room politics started when Heaps got here. It will be interesting to see if all the talk dies down now that he is gone.

frdbtr wrote:
Funny how all this talk about locker room politics started when Heaps got here. It will be interesting to see if all the talk dies down now that he is gone.

Ha-ha-ha, ya, that thar is perty funny.

Mental-midgetry has finally reached its apex. thank you for finally getting these slams to the peak. can we stop now?

dmcougar wrote:

Funny how all this talk about locker room politics started when Heaps got here. It will be interesting to see if all the talk dies down now that he is gone.

Ha-ha-ha, ya, that thar is perty funny.

Mental-midgetry has finally reached its apex. thank you for finally getting these slams to the peak. can we stop now?

I know you have denied it in multiple threads, but as an independent, impartial observer it really does seem like you are going through every thread and commenting on whatever frdbtr says. It's getting a little old. We get that you are team Heaps and he is team Nelson, or whatever (man it feels like Twilight around here :sick: ) Please, let's get back to commenting on BYU sports and not our opinions of each other.

Devbo wrote:
I don't know that what Heaps does or doesn't do in the next few years will prove anything about what he would have done if he stayed. Different set of circumstances can completely change the game. Sometimes a clean split is what both parties need to grow and reach higher levels.

I totally agree. There are too many variables involved in the success or failure of a football TEAM to pin them completely on one player. There may be a perception of failure by BYU's coaches if Jake succeeds elsewhere, but anyone who works in a field where their success is tied to the compliance of others knows that it isn't that simple. I honestly hope that Jake, Bronco, Doman, and BYU all succeed and reach their full potential--it isn't a zero-sum game. They can all succeed simultaneously.

northerncougar wrote:
In three years we will know who's predictions about Heaps and BYU are correct. It might be sooner than that but no later.



Right now the best case scenario for Heaps is the worst for Bronco and vice versa. If he ends up winning a national championship somewhere else his senior year, it seems obvious to me that Bronco and company blew this opportunity and should be fired. If Heaps fails or is avg at best, then we know that Bronco handled this well.



Personally, I will be watching closely what Heaps does as it will have an affect on what could have been at BYU.



I also believe that Bronco's job is not in danger in any way, shape, or form based on Heaps future. Bronco will not be limited to three years.

So if LSU wins the NC this year it is because of the coach and the QB and has nothing to do with the other players on the team? If Heaps wins an NC it would be with a team. But I doubt it happens unless he goes to USC or maybe Oregon. And in that case he will probably be a backup when it happened.

northerncougar wrote:

I think it will be an indictment on Doman's abilities to groom a pro style offense QB if Heaps goes elsewhere and takes off with a new QB coach. Jake was the guy all last spring, all summer and all Fall camp, yet he regressed. Something was clearly missing, and it was clear starting in the Ole Miss game. The offense and scheme sucked. Our running game was horrid. The line run blocking was dreadful. And it continued until Riley came in and started. The scheme--up until Riley started--was garbage. Our players did not execute it all. You go pro style--you have to be able to run it well. We couldn't. So a switch was made. Not just QB either. Scheme as well.



Riley is not a traditional QB--he is more play maker. His best plays and highlights come from broken plays. Jake struggled with that on most occasions. Riley and his scrambling cover up other issues for BYU. That also means he gave the team a better chance to win right now. Playing him was the right decision.



I am just pissed off it all went down as it did. The locker room issues. The inter-family issues. That Band of Brothers T Bronco wears was a huge plea to his team this year--not a statement like it was in 2006.



Regardless, glad we can move on from this. That QB drama lasted 2 years, which is way too long. And that is on the coaches. I hope they learn from this. Redshirt your freshman QB. Always. ALWAYS.

I agree with what you are saying 100%. But if it ends up as an indictment on Doman, then it must begin with Bronco. If we find out the problem was having the wrong coach to develop Heaps, then Bronco made the worst hire in his tenure by not going after a big time coach to handle the offense.

Are you saying that as soon as we can find someone else to replace him as qb coach, Doman gives that up? Somebody who was a great qb (Peyton Manning, Jim McMahon, etc) who is willing to come here?



Doman would still be OC.

CougarClaw wrote:
One lost recruit does not a career make. Especially during the turbulent time of learning how to be an OC; which btw, he's turning out to be a pretty good one.



I choose Doman over Heaps every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

What about twice on game day?

If Heaps goes somewhere else and is successful, it will prove what we've all been trying to say -- that Heaps needed some time on the bench (redshirt year) and we'd see more of his potential. That's how it works in college football, the younger guys learn the system, fine-tune their skills, then play in the games when they're ready. Jake being successful would say nothing about Doman as a coach, it just says that he wasn't ready, which is why he didn't play, which was a good coaching move, but it's also why he transferred. Good luck to him, I'm glad his wife could get a parting shot in at Nelson's family on the way out.

Schmoe wrote:
If Heaps goes somewhere else and is successful, it will prove what we've all been trying to say -- that Heaps needed some time on the bench (redshirt year) and we'd see more of his potential. That's how it works in college football, the younger guys learn the system, fine-tune their skills, then play in the games when they're ready. Jake being successful would say nothing about Doman as a coach, it just says that he wasn't ready, which is why he didn't play, which was a good coaching move, but it's also why he transferred. Good luck to him, I'm glad his wife could get a parting shot in at Nelson's family on the way out.

Facing this first hard adversity might help him with more drive to improve as well. I totally agree that this says nothing about Bronco/Doman.