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Bronco's Idea of An Ideal BYU Player

by byucougar1 · 12/5/2011

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byucougar1
As much as I dislike having to see Jake transfer, there is an underlying theme of the type of player Bronco and the other coaches desire to have on the team. It is quite apparent that Bronco likes to see humility and hard work from his players with no sense of entitlement or special treatment expectations. One only has to look at Riley Nelson, JD Falslev, Jameson Frazier, Andrew Rich, Scott Johnson, Dennis Pita, etc. to see that Bronco extols the virtues of those who rise up under adversity and succeed against all odds and he gives them an opportunity and fair chance to contribute and excel.



The team themes that we have had over his tenure,"Fully Invested", "Band of Brothers", "Rise Up", all of which indicates he expects the players to have an indomitable spirit being committed to the program and striving to overcome challenges together.



Riley had to work hard to get to where he was. He played behind Max Hall and didn't get into the games for very significant minutes, and he ended up having to split time with a frosh QB after having been in the system. His injury kept him on the sidelines while his opportunity to start again wilted away. Rather than sulk, and give up, when he was the back-up, he offered to play on the special teams and take whatever role he was regalated to. He came in for plays at the beginning of the season where everyone knew he was going to run the draw or throw some apparent screen - difficult circumstances at best. Then he comes in under extreme pressure and delivers a win vs USU, and had we not self imploded against TCU, may have even taken us to victory. He is tough, fiery, never gives us, thinks he can win in any situation, has a very high tolerance for pain, wills himself to recovery (both injuries - shoulder and ribs) and still keeps on improving (what talent limitation or ceiling).



Jake could have learned a lot from Riley and become a better person for it. I trust that all future recruits would do well to study these examples of the type of players Bronco desires and press forward it despite adversity, and they will be all the better for their effort even if they don't become a visible star (see Edwards and Marshall).
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frdbtr
byucougar1 wrote:
As much as I dislike having to see Jake transfer, there is an underlying theme of the type of player Bronco and the other coaches desire to have on the team. It is quite apparent that Bronco likes to see humility and hard work from his players with no sense of entitlement or special treatment expectations. One only has to look at Riley Nelson, JD Falslev, Jameson Frazier, Andrew Rich, Scott Johnson, Dennis Pita, etc. to see that Bronco extols the virtues of those who rise up under adversity and succeed against all odds and he gives them an opportunity and fair chance to contribute and excel.



The team themes that we have had over his tenure,"Fully Invested", "Band of Brothers", "Rise Up", all of which indicates he expects the players to have an indomitable spirit being committed to the program and striving to overcome challenges together.



Riley had to work hard to get to where he was. He played behind Max Hall and didn't get into the games for very significant minutes, and he ended up having to split time with a frosh QB after having been in the system. His injury kept him on the sidelines while his opportunity to start again wilted away. Rather than sulk, and give up, when he was the back-up, he offered to play on the special teams and take whatever role he was regalated to. He came in for plays at the beginning of the season where everyone knew he was going to run the draw or throw some apparent screen - difficult circumstances at best. Then he comes in under extreme pressure and delivers a win vs USU, and had we not self imploded against TCU, may have even taken us to victory. He is tough, fiery, never gives us, thinks he can win in any situation, has a very high tolerance for pain, wills himself to recovery (both injuries - shoulder and ribs) and still keeps on improving (what talent limitation or ceiling).



Jake could have learned a lot from Riley and become a better person for it. I trust that all future recruits would do well to study these examples of the type of players Bronco desires and press forward it despite adversity, and they will be all the better for their effort even if they don't become a visible star (see Edwards and Marshall).


+1 post of the day. When you get talent and work ethic you get Michael Jordan.
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Cougarbib
After a brief distraction, Bronco reminded himself that Performance > Potential.



BTW - you need look no further than Bronco himself to see what resonates with him. Remember, Bronco was the guy BYU felt was too small, not athletic, and too slow to play at BYU. So he went JC and then Oregon State - and overachieved through hard work and physical play.



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Gunk
frdbtr wrote:
As much as I dislike having to see Jake transfer, there is an underlying theme of the type of player Bronco and the other coaches desire to have on the team. It is quite apparent that Bronco likes to see humility and hard work from his players with no sense of entitlement or special treatment expectations. One only has to look at Riley Nelson, JD Falslev, Jameson Frazier, Andrew Rich, Scott Johnson, Dennis Pita, etc. to see that Bronco extols the virtues of those who rise up under adversity and succeed against all odds and he gives them an opportunity and fair chance to contribute and excel.



The team themes that we have had over his tenure,"Fully Invested", "Band of Brothers", "Rise Up", all of which indicates he expects the players to have an indomitable spirit being committed to the program and striving to overcome challenges together.



Riley had to work hard to get to where he was. He played behind Max Hall and didn't get into the games for very significant minutes, and he ended up having to split time with a frosh QB after having been in the system. His injury kept him on the sidelines while his opportunity to start again wilted away. Rather than sulk, and give up, when he was the back-up, he offered to play on the special teams and take whatever role he was regalated to. He came in for plays at the beginning of the season where everyone knew he was going to run the draw or throw some apparent screen - difficult circumstances at best. Then he comes in under extreme pressure and delivers a win vs USU, and had we not self imploded against TCU, may have even taken us to victory. He is tough, fiery, never gives us, thinks he can win in any situation, has a very high tolerance for pain, wills himself to recovery (both injuries - shoulder and ribs) and still keeps on improving (what talent limitation or ceiling).



Jake could have learned a lot from Riley and become a better person for it. I trust that all future recruits would do well to study these examples of the type of players Bronco desires and press forward it despite adversity, and they will be all the better for their effort even if they don't become a visible star (see Edwards and Marshall).


+1 post of the day. When you get talent and work ethic you get Michael Jordan.


Or Jimmer.
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Dcr36
I could see this thread provoking a lot of strong opinions.



There's no denying Bronco has a liking for hard-working, unheralded guys that come from a specific background. And I like cheering for a team with Max Halls and Dennis Pittas and Brian Kariyas. I think the fear is (and I'm not sure I agree) BYU has hit its ceiling with "Bronco players" and to take the next step, Bronco needs to learn to recruit, cultivate and manage highly-talented players.



I really do think you need a good mix, and you DO need more than just "Bronco players." The problem I have with the "Bronco can't handle talent" outlook is that you have to ignore a fair number of cases in order for it to actually be true. If we ignore star numbers - look at Kyle Van Noy. He seems like the total anti-thesis of a Bronco guy. Freakishly talented, people were clamoring for him to see the field pretty early on - and had a reputation of having a really bad attitude. I saw a fair number of people predict he's probably get kicked off the team before he saw any meaningful playing time. And here he is, probably the best, most fun-to-watch player on the team right now. I HATE defense-first football and I LOVE watching KVN.



Apo was a 4-star guy, and he's looked better as the season progresses.
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Guest
Our success with Mangum, Hill, Van Noy, Apo, and Hoffman will answer a lot of questions about how well Bronco can work with talent.
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frdbtr
Dcr36 wrote:
I could see this thread provoking a lot of strong opinions.



There's no denying Bronco has a liking for hard-working, unheralded guys that come from a specific background. And I like cheering for a team with Max Halls and Dennis Pittas and Brian Kariyas. I think the fear is (and I'm not sure I agree) BYU has hit its ceiling with "Bronco players" and to take the next step, Bronco needs to learn to recruit, cultivate and manage highly-talented players.



I really do think you need a good mix, and you DO need more than just "Bronco players." The problem I have with the "Bronco can't handle talent" outlook is that you have to ignore a fair number of cases in order for it to actually be true. If we ignore star numbers - look at Kyle Van Noy. He seems like the total anti-thesis of a Bronco guy. Freakishly talented, people were clamoring for him to see the field pretty early on - and had a reputation of having a really bad attitude. I saw a fair number of people predict he's probably get kicked off the team before he saw any meaningful playing time. And here he is, probably the best, most fun-to-watch player on the team right now. I HATE defense-first football and I LOVE watching KVN.



Apo was a 4-star guy, and he's looked better as the season progresses.


What is a "Bronco Guy"? IMO, it is someone who works hard and maximizes his potential. KVN is a classic example, he is a tremendously talented guy who is working hard and we are seeing the result of that on the field. Bronco only played a lot of walk on's early in his coaching days because our defense was decimated by injury. JD Falslev kind of players are going to be harder to come by if our recruits work like they should to maximize thier talent. Bronco just loves guys that work, but I would imagine that he loves talented guys who work alot more.
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byucougar1
Bronco expects a player to perform on and off the field (academics, service, performance, example). KVN called Bronco after signing a LOI and admitted to WOW issue before news broke. He worked his way back onto the team - through repentance process and Bronco held his schollie fir him. That action alone told KVN that Bronco would have hit back I he met the requirements. He also had to discipline him along the way and KVN didn't even start this year but split playing time. To listen to their relationship on he BMS - they have a great rapport despite KVN's unique personality. Ditto for Kaveinga spurning BYU and then asking to come back to the Y durin OSU game and his willingness to play on scout team. Furthermore, look at Oneal Chambers and the challenges he presented comin to the Y - some ego, outspoken, mistake prone from time to time, but a warrior and devoted to the team - even when kicked off. All of these kids have shown humility, the desire to change, listen and trust. Results have been good. Jake wasn't willing to go this route and thus, we will never see what might have turned out after some humility/humble pie. As far as top recruits, check the NFL and the casualties of entitled players who litter the field as unfulfilled draft picks who failed to live up to their potential (head cases, poor work ethic, problems with drugs, addictive behavior, poor choices, etc.). Bronco cared for Heaps - weekly meetings to see how he was adjusting and continued to encourage him. Seems to mee that Jake didn't recognize who had his best interest in mind despite some tough love.



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Mars
hawkwing wrote:
Our success with Mangum, Hill, Van Noy, Apo, and Hoffman will answer a lot of questions about how well Bronco can work with talent.

Mangum and Hill haven't tried playing under Bronco yet. KVN was badly mismanaged as a freshman, and despite being our best defender is still disrespected by starting games on the bench. Apo couldn't be mismanaged last year because he was lost for the season due to injury. And Bronco allowed both Apo and Hoffman to become a part of the Riley/Jake politics.



Bronco is a terrible coach for a talented player to play for, as long as he thinks he is talented and expects that being talented means he should play. Once you think you suck and will break your neck practicing anyway, that's when Bronco starts to consider playing you. It's a good philosophy. It works poorly in real life though at bringing positive results.
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Cougarbib
Mars wrote:
Our success with Mangum, Hill, Van Noy, Apo, and Hoffman will answer a lot of questions about how well Bronco can work with talent.

Mangum and Hill haven't tried playing under Bronco yet. KVN was badly mismanaged as a freshman, and despite being our best defender is still disrespected by starting games on the bench. Apo couldn't be mismanaged last year because he was lost for the season due to injury. And Bronco allowed both Apo and Hoffman to become a part of the Riley/Jake politics.



Bronco is a terrible coach for a talented player to play for, as long as he thinks he is talented and expects that being talented means he should play. Once you think you suck and will break your neck practicing anyway, that's when Bronco starts to consider playing you. It's a good philosophy. It works poorly in real life though at bringing positive results.




And yet - assuming you have read the quotes from Jake, "I have a great deal of respect for Bronco and learned a lot about football from Brandon". Read between the lines. Heaps has no respect for Doman, anymore. Heaps cost Anae his job for seeing through the hype. Doman became a folk hero because of the legend that Anae made him do 2QB instead of giving the reins to Jake. Doman bet the farm on Jake and got burned. And finally, Doman plays the better player - and Jake pouts and throws his mentor under the bus.



Sorry Mars - Doman figured out how to get so much out of Beck and Hall that they got drafted and got shots in the NFL - even though they do not have Jake Heaps talent. Their weak performance in the NFL - proves that Doman got about all that possibly could be gotten out of them. Scary thought for Jake, but maybe Doman got all that could possibly be gotten out of Jake nd it turned out to not be all that much.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
Our success with Mangum, Hill, Van Noy, Apo, and Hoffman will answer a lot of questions about how well Bronco can work with talent.

Mangum and Hill haven't tried playing under Bronco yet. KVN was badly mismanaged as a freshman, and despite being our best defender is still disrespected by starting games on the bench. Apo couldn't be mismanaged last year because he was lost for the season due to injury. And Bronco allowed both Apo and Hoffman to become a part of the Riley/Jake politics.



Bronco is a terrible coach for a talented player to play for, as long as he thinks he is talented and expects that being talented means he should play. Once you think you suck and will break your neck practicing anyway, that's when Bronco starts to consider playing you. It's a good philosophy. It works poorly in real life though at bringing positive results.


Really? Can you please tell me how KVN was "badly mismanaged" his Freshman year? How did Bronco "allow" Hoff and Apo to get involved in the Heaps politics? You are making blanket accusations with no basis in fact.
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Cougarfan87
Bronco's ideal player is not without talent. The ideal player is without a sense of entitlement. There is a difference.



Take KVN. I've met him in person and he exudes humility. Yet he works hard and lays it on the line for BYU. BYU had other talented linebackers with more experience KVN's first year. If a linebacker is out of position, no matter how talented, it can really hurt the defense. I would not take his not starting as a slight last year, but as a new college player that needs some time to learn.



This year, Bronco has stated that the first defensive set has nothing to do with who is "starting" but what they want to start out doing defensively. For example, if you start out in dime coverage, does that mean that two of your linebackers are not starting? No. KVN is getting tons of playing time, and I am quite certain that is all he cares about, not whether or not he was considered a "starter" that game. I wish BYU could clone a team full of KVNs--talented, humble guys that will work their butts off and lay it all on the line for the team. That is Bronco's type of player. Let's stop supporting the falsehood that Bronco does not like players with talent.
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CougarClaw
I think McGregor called them "Bronco-bots".



Not sure I agree with the idea, but still thought the name was funny.
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Gunk
The idea that Bronco and company don't know how to "manage" top talent is complete BS.



I hope Heaps goes to some elite-esque program and flames out just so all the pundits claiming Bronco doesn't know how to coach top talent will shut up.



How many 5-star recruits has Bronco/Doman recruited and how many have been "mis-managed?" None.



Bronco is fine with talent. What he isn't fine with is me-first brats, and I think that sentiment is fairly universal across college football. High School football is no where near the same level as college football. So, some prep star that thinks he's the best in the world needs a reality check. Heaps got his and has pouted off.
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