Where BYU football is headed

In my estimation of things the BYU football team has peaked. Bronco has done a great job of getting us this far this quickly, and it is hard to argue with his win-loss record. But I think we all need to admit that the last three years will be as good as it gets. And I am not complaining. A moderately good football team is all I have ever hoped for. BYU led by Bronco just doesn’t have the intense killer instinct, the predatory eye of the tiger, needed to be an elite team. After watching the TCU game again, I am led to believe under those white and blue helmets they don there is nothing more than the dull and languid stare of a washed-up, worn-out dairy cow, which has been set out to pasture. But like I said I am not complaining: life should not be lived too intensely and games are just games. :D

I don't think this kind of judgement can be made yet. There are still other factors that affect that killer instinct, including the team leadership, which we know Bronco gives a lot of responsibility in driving the team forward. If next year or the year after that, under different leadership, you still see the same thing, then I will accept that it's more likely a result of Bronco's coaching.

Sammich wrote:
I don't think this kind of judgement can be made yet. There are still other factors that affect that killer instinct, including the team leadership, which we know Bronco gives a lot of responsibility in driving the team forward. If next year or the year after that, under different leadership, you still see the same thing, then I will accept that it's more likely a result of Bronco's coaching.

Yes, you could be right. It's just a gut feeling of mine. You are obviously taking a very careful and level-headed approach.

If you look at the success that Bronco has had with Crowton's leftovers and then consider all the talent we have coming in, I'd say that Bronco is just getting started. Remember that Bronco is a young head coach and he learns and grows a lot every year. Personally, I think BYU football is headed in a great direction.

pwride wrote:

I don't think this kind of judgement can be made yet. There are still other factors that affect that killer instinct, including the team leadership, which we know Bronco gives a lot of responsibility in driving the team forward. If next year or the year after that, under different leadership, you still see the same thing, then I will accept that it's more likely a result of Bronco's coaching.

Yes, you could be right. It's just a gut feeling of mine. You are obviously taking a very careful and level-headed approach.

Wait.. you guys disagree.. shouldn't you be shouting with all caps and calling each other names for having differing opinions? :lol:

I agree in part, and politely dissent in part.



I agree that, to a point, improvements here on out will likely be marginal, if any at all are due. The primary cause is that 10 wins is still 10 wins. What we're really talking about is if Bronco can ever consistently beat superior teams. I side with Sammich on this one in that it's simply too early to tell.



Bronco may have tabled off. As you will note in my other posts, I think there are some adjustments to be made, which can be summed up to (a) staff changes, and (b) leadership changes. Part (b) will be taken care of largely by graduating this year's seniors. Part (a) is where I wonder.



As far as killer instinct, I'm not sure it's completely lost. I agree that something is missing from the team's game-time sidelines. But I'm also sure that Mendenhall gets pretty excited at practices. So excited that he probably drops some colorful language. So judging the team's character based off 3 hours on a Saturday is incomplete.



Sorry, I'm having a hard time spitting out what I want to say. Basically, I'm going to go ahead and expect outcome changes over the course of the next 2 seasons. But I've certainly been wrong before (particularly this season).

pwride wrote:
In my estimation of things the BYU football team has peaked. Bronco has done a great job of getting us this far this quickly, and it is hard to argue with his win-loss record. But I think we all need to admit that the last three years will be as good as it gets. And I am not complaining. A moderately good football team is all I have ever hoped for. BYU led by Bronco just doesn’t have the intense killer instinct, the predatory eye of the tiger, needed to be an elite team. After watching the TCU game again, I am led to believe under those white and blue helmets they don there is nothing more than the dull and languid stare of a washed-up, worn-out dairy cow, which has been set out to pasture. But like I said I am not complaining: life should not be lived too intensely and games are just games. :D

Peter I don't know if you listen to David Locke at all.. but he said something very similar to this a couple weeks ago... It kinda shocked me when I said.. and made me a little upset.. but now I am not so sure he wasn't right.. I don't want him (and you) to be right.. I guess I will take the wait and see approach..

Beck to Harline. Just 3 years ago. Maybe not the "killer" instinct, but the will to play until the last play. You could say the same about 4th and 18, the next year. I think leadership and player(s) stepping up, taking the team on his/their back and gutting out a win is something that can change each year.... different players, different chemistry.



Also, don't forget this is year one of the Hill calling D and Anae up in the box transition. Both of these could be having an affect on game day.

wazzucoug97 wrote:
Beck to Harline. Just 3 years ago. Maybe not the "killer" instinct, but the will to play until the last play. You could say the same about 4th and 18, the next year. I think leadership and player(s) stepping up, taking the team on his/their back and gutting out a win is something that can change each year.... different players, different chemistry.



Also, don't forget this is year one of the Hill calling D and Anae up in the box transition. Both of these could be having an affect on game day.

Yes, great moments. But I think they demonstrate more of a survival instinct. When was the last time we pounced on a quality team at the beginning of a game and positioned ourselves to make a lethal blow? Like in the TCU, after starting the game with a three-and-out and forcing TCU to punt, that is an oppurtunity to gain momentum and dictate the game. I think if in the first drive of the game we score a touchdown, the entire complextion of the game changes. It is at moments like these when all the talk about execution needs to materialize. If it did materiralize, maybe we win. Maybe we win handlely, and when there are two minutes left in the fourth quartar, late game heroics are not needed, as they were in those Utah games.

pwride wrote:
In my estimation of things the BYU football team has peaked. Bronco has done a great job of getting us this far this quickly, and it is hard to argue with his win-loss record. But I think we all need to admit that the last three years will be as good as it gets. And I am not complaining. A moderately good football team is all I have ever hoped for. BYU led by Bronco just doesn’t have the intense killer instinct, the predatory eye of the tiger, needed to be an elite team. After watching the TCU game again, I am led to believe under those white and blue helmets they don there is nothing more than the dull and languid stare of a washed-up, worn-out dairy cow, which has been set out to pasture. But like I said I am not complaining: life should not be lived too intensely and games are just games. :D

We beat one really good team this year; and lost to one really good team this year and lost to a pretty crappy team this year and beat several pretty crappy teams. I do not think we can conclude that the program has peaked....With missions and all the experience players are not mostly Bronco recruits are they? Let Bronco's recruits show themselves first. Let a smart man right the ship....If you had told me four years ago we would have had three straight 10 win seasons I would have shouted for joy. Oh how success makes one want and expect more! The recruits showing up in Provo are truly exciting. It's not to say that all is well...Things need to happen, but let's wait and see with optimism

Yes, great moments. But I think they demonstrate more of a survival instinct. When was the last time we pounced on a quality team at the beginning of a game and positioned ourselves to make a lethal blow? Like in the TCU, after starting the game with a three-and-out and forcing TCU to punt, that is an oppurtunity to gain momentum and dictate the game. I think if in the first drive of the game we score a touchdown, the entire complextion of the game changes. It is at moments like these when all the talk about execution needs to materialize. If it did materiralize, maybe we win. Maybe we win handlely, and when there are two minutes left in the fourth quartar, late game heroics are not needed, as they were in those Utah games.

I do agree with striking the first blow and taking charge, instead of the need to pull out the late game heroics. When we failed on the 2nd and 2, I felt a eerily bad omen. Similar to the way I felt when Chambers fumbled vs FSU. I think those two instances did change the complexion of both games.

I certainly wouldn't "throw in the towel" on the chances of BYU busting the BCS in the near future with the hype surrounding our incoming recruits. Now, if in 2-3 seasons we're still sitting at 10-3 or 11-2 every year, then I'd be willing to concede that we've perhaps reached our potential and that BYU simply has limitations on how far it can go with the types of athletes its able to bring in...or that the only way we may possibly get to the "next level" would be to clean house with the coaching staff, which I certainly wouldn't want to do now.

Let's see what Bronco can do with the kids coming in, and even with his coaches/philosophies over the next couple years.

BYU has not even touched the tip of the iceberg. :twisted:

pwride wrote:

Beck to Harline. Just 3 years ago. Maybe not the "killer" instinct, but the will to play until the last play. You could say the same about 4th and 18, the next year. I think leadership and player(s) stepping up, taking the team on his/their back and gutting out a win is something that can change each year.... different players, different chemistry.



Also, don't forget this is year one of the Hill calling D and Anae up in the box transition. Both of these could be having an affect on game day.

Yes, great moments. But I think they demonstrate more of a survival instinct. When was the last time we pounced on a quality team at the beginning of a game and positioned ourselves to make a lethal blow? Like in the TCU, after starting the game with a three-and-out and forcing TCU to punt, that is an oppurtunity to gain momentum and dictate the game. I think if in the first drive of the game we score a touchdown, the entire complextion of the game changes. It is at moments like these when all the talk about execution needs to materialize. If it did materiralize, maybe we win. Maybe we win handlely, and when there are two minutes left in the fourth quartar, late game heroics are not needed, as they were in those Utah games.

When has BYU ever pounced on a quality team?



Only twice BYU has defeated a team that has finished ranked by more than 2 TDs-- Oregon St. in 1967 31-13 and Air Force in 1983 46-28. In fact, BYU's 14 point win over TCU in 2006 has been the most dominating performance by BYU against a legit top 25 team since that win over Air Force. BYU has defeated 14 teams that have finished ranked in a major poll and 8 of them have been decided by only 1 score. It will be 15 and 9 respectively if Oklahoma finishes the year ranked.



To me, Bronco has restored everything that Lavell has built. The only question to me is whether the 11-2, 10-3, 9-4 seasons are the baseline or the ceiling. I try to stay realistic and so the thought of 10 win seasons as a baseline is absurd. However, I think that is where this program is. I think this program will always be very good under Bronco and is just a few dynamic players (Jake Heaps anyone?) from being GREAT!!!

From where I sait, beating a #1 team by 1 pt is good enough, let along by 7. beating a #3 team is good enough. It is not about trouncing top competition, it is about winning. PERIOD.



Texas just beat OU by 3, and is getting credit. Bama just beat Tenn by 2 and is getting credit. Florida beat LSU ugly. And gets credit. In the big games, just win.

Lawboy wrote:
From where I sait, beating a #1 team by 1 pt is good enough, let along by 7. beating a #3 team is good enough. It is not about trouncing top competition, it is about winning. PERIOD.



Texas just beat OU by 3, and is getting credit. Bama just beat Tenn by 2 and is getting credit. Florida beat LSU ugly. And gets credit. In the big games, just win.

You're right in that winning is all that matters.



However, but when you look BCS quality and NC quality teams HAMMERING legit top 25 competition is not an infrequent thing. For example, Every national champion in the BCS era has had a victory over a legit top 25 team of 18 points or greater. It's something to think about when considering the NC possibilities for BYU.

I would argue for patience. It is too early in his career. IMHO the best coach ever was John Wooden with 10 national champtionships. However it took him 15 years at UCLA to win the first one. It took time to learn how to do it, to build his program and to get better recruits to play for him. The best sign currently is the quality of the recruiting class this year. If the kids are buying into the program, the future is very bright indeed. Plus looking long term, the church is growing which increases the pool of athletes to draw from.



By the way, If Wooden coached today he would had been fired before winning the first championship. 2 years before the first one he was only 18-11. The fans would have roasted him. Bronco hang in there. Better times are coming!!!

I think all Bronco is really capable of getting is 10 or 11 win seasons. Now, with more talented "fiery" players special BCS busting seasons are possible, but those won't be because of Bronco but more because of the extra X factor a more talented/passionate corps brings.



10 win seasons over and over is nice, but with the way TCU and Utah are headed that would essentially make BYU the routine 2nd or 3rd place MWC team. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd get and am a little tired of such. I want a piece of the BCS pie and want BYU to break through the glass ceiling.

Gunk wrote:
I think all Bronco is really capable of getting is 10 or 11 win seasons. Now, with more talented "fiery" players special BCS busting seasons are possible, but those won't be because of Bronco but more because of the extra X factor a more talented/passionate corps brings.



10 win seasons over and over is nice, but with the way TCU and Utah are headed that would essentially make BYU the routine 2nd or 3rd place MWC team. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd get and am a little tired of such. I want a piece of the BCS pie and want BYU to break through the glass ceiling.

I'm not convinced that Utah is going to be a yearly undefeated team. I don't think they will be able to match the year in and year out consistency of BYU.