I have a questions for Utah residents.

I enjoyed Thanksgiving dinner with several church member families yesterday. The subject of college came up, and one of the couples said that they applied to BYU just so they could get accepted and turn it down. The husband went to an USU, then to Dartmouth Medical School, so I don't doubt the truth of what he said.



What on earth makes a person think like this? How does someone hate an institution that belongs to the very church they have committed their life to? Do they resent the fact that much of their tithing money supports BYU?



Why would devout members take so much pride cheering with the vulgarity that is the USU fan base or Utah for that matter. And no I am not being a self righteous BYU fan, I've been to sporting events with USU and Utah fans. They are both a step or two beyond the lines of normal social behavior. If BYU fans acted like that, I'd stop supporting their athletic program and find a better institution for my kids to attend.



I was going to ask some of these questions during dinner, but my wife kicked me under the table.

Traditions of their fathers (I don't live in Utah).

Insecurity ... He needs to be more comfortible with who he is



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BYU is not for everyone. When I was reactivating, one of my favorites of the missionaries that came by was a Ute fan and really disliked BYU. His dad worked for BYU and most of his siblings were BYU fans. He was not crude or vulgar about it - but he was anti BYU. A running back from San Diego that he had met while serving there committed to BYU and this missionary got on the phone with him from my house and said, "tell me it isn't true". He didn't get mean, but conveyed his disappointment. He is a good man. I became friends with his family. Good family. Does not like BYU.



When I met my wife, she hated BYU. Her dad loved BYU and her mom was an alum. Over the years, she has become converted to be more tolerant. She wanted our kids to go there.

Dwight wrote:
The subject of college came up, and one of the couples said that they applied to BYU just so they could get accepted and turn it down. The husband went to an USU, then to Dartmouth Medical School, so I don't doubt the truth of what he said.



What on earth makes a person think like this?

I don't live in Utah, but here's my opinion. Maybe it was that individual's way of preempting or defending against the common put-down that the thing that all BYU and Utah or Utah State students have in common is that they all applied to BYU (with the implication being that they were denied acceptance to BYU so they settled for one of the other schools). Maybe it was a way to legitimize himself as a student while still attending the school he wanted to attend. If that is why he did it, it is really a back-handed compliment to BYU.

I have lived in Utah for about ten years now and know a good number of people (including in-laws) that are just like those you mentioned. I can't figure it out. There is no reasonable answer.

What I have learned about people that are anti-BYU, anti-Mormon, and anti-conservative is that when I talk to them and learn why they have taken the emotional (and it is purely emotional) position that they have, the reasons are frighteningly lame, especially when considering the ferocity and determination in maintaing that position. So, you can ask them but I guarantee you will be disappointed in the answer because you will expect something more meaningful and in proportion to the emotional intensity that they put into it, but it won't be there.



I once asked someone why he voted for liberals. It turned out that the reason was because he watched Saturday Night Live and that was his source of political information.



I went to an anti-Mormon rally to see what it was all about. They were just a bunch of people that needed to laugh at Mormons to find some relevance in their own lives and feel better about themselves.



Rabid Utah fans that are LDS have told me that they root against BYU because BYU players are the do-gooder pretty boys.



Each time I thought I was going to hear some roaring reasoning but got nothing and I was left speechless.

My Dad went to UofU. He is a huge BYU fan. My best buddy in the Church - very active - on the High Council - he HATES BYU with a passion. We have had some pretty testy & chippy discussions over it. We didn't talk for months because of it.



His point - BYU is snotty & feels entitled. That they are "chosen" and special. I have heard some people talk that way - but I have never heard upper Church Authorities talk that way - that BYU is entitled to win. It just sin't so.



BYU is an athletic program like anywhere else & will win the same way anyone else wins - through talented athletes, discipline, hard work, good coaching, and some luck.

8)

I actually can't wait for the BYU-Utah rivalry to die. Then I won't have to worry or care about Utah any more and will be able to limit my interactions with their fans. I can go back to just following my Cougars and ignoring the Utes. It was one of the best things about growing up out of Utah - I didn't have think about their program.

Try being a non member who lives for BYU football and having everyone question you about it. All I can say is its football not church. I view BYU football no different than I do any sporting team I root for.

Mormon Ute fans seperate the church from the team it makes it easier for them to hate the school and its teams. If they didnt they wouldnt beable to look themselves in the mirror. How can you hate a school that represents the very religon that you base your faith on? Mormon Ute fans can be the biggest hypocrites!



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There are quite a few mormons who do their best to be cool and convince their non-member friends (and themselves) that they aren't as uncool as a stereotypical mormon. They want to be different but they can't just leave the church. Still, they don't want to be seen as being under the control of the church, which of course they are (to the tune of 10% of their "increase" and 10ish hours a week). This leads to self loathing and a desire to reject anything rejectable and push any soft boundary the church leaves as a gray area (caffeine, R-rated movies, etc. etc.)



It's sort of a mormon version of being a cafeteria catholic (ie still picking and choosing but with far fewer options you can say "no" to)

It's not just Mormons in Utah. While on my mission we had Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, and Utep in our mission boundaries. At one time or another i worked at each Institute of religion. When BYU came to town I was blown away that the most rabid anti BYU fans were the kids at the institutes. I couldn't believe it but in questioning it the only apparent legitimate reason was that they had been turned down for admission at BYU.

I get the feeling it is just a desire to be a bit of a contrarian. The majority loves BYU, but I am different, and better, so I don't. Those who I knew when I was outside of Utah associate BYU with being a "Utah Mormon" and they are "different" (and better) so they don't like BYU. It is basically a pride thing.

BerliNY wrote:
There are quite a few mormons who do their best to be cool and convince their non-member friends (and themselves) that they aren't as uncool as a stereotypical mormon. They want to be different but they can't just leave the church. Still, they don't want to be seen as being under the control of the church, which of course they are (to the tune of 10% of their "increase" and 10ish hours a week). This leads to self loathing and a desire to reject anything rejectable and push any soft boundary the church leaves as a gray area (caffeine, R-rated movies, etc. etc.)



It's sort of a mormon version of being a cafeteria catholic (ie still picking and choosing but with far fewer options you can say "no" to)

This.



Hating BYU is a defense mechanism a lot of Mormons use to separate themselves in their mind from the rest of the Church membership and culture.



Their logic is this: if "regular people" think BYU and Mormons are weird maybe I can come across as "regular" too if I hate BYU. Then I can be Mormon but not look Mormon.



A lot of BYU haters also have just unfortunately been raised with gross misconceptions about BYU. They never attended BYU yet they have these ideas cemented in their head that they cling to as fact.



Finally, some people hate BYU for the exact same reasons for which I love BYU. And I'm ok with that. It's the same with politics. Dems will praise Obama for the exact same things that make me throw up a little in my mouth. I'd say "to each his own" and let the Dems have their opinion if they'd reciprocate and let me have my money. Instead they want my money to pay for their opinion. So convenient for them.



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I dont want to flame at all here, but I will. This exact thread is a great example of why lots of LDS people dislike BYU sports, or BYU in general.



Really? Because they are mad they didnt get in to BYU? Or they are not truly faithful mormons and want to live in the grey area?



I grew up never paying attention to BYU, or BYU athletics, and my family (all solid mormons, yeah, we don't even drink caffeine) and many friends were (and still are) fans of another school. I attended BYU and enjoyed sporting events there, but am still a fan of my hometown school. I follow BYU now, but nobody in my family does, they never have, and really never will, I just dont think BYU is a big deal to them.



Maybe I am misinterpreting this thread, but I think BYU just doesnt cause much of a blip on a lot of LDS folks radars, and when over-obsessive BYU fans assume that since you go to church, are active, like sports, etc., that you must also obsess over BYU, or else one of the above mentioned reasons must be "wrong" with you, than it just fuels the fire.



Just my 2 cents. I really like BYU, but I can see how many dislike the school based on the attitude reflected in some of the comments above.

westidahocougar wrote:
I dont want to flame at all here, but I will. This exact thread is a great example of why lots of LDS people dislike BYU sports, or BYU in general.



Really? Because they are mad they didnt get in to BYU? Or they are not truly faithful mormons and want to live in the grey area?



I grew up never paying attention to BYU, or BYU athletics, and my family (all solid mormons, yeah, we don't even drink caffeine) and many friends were (and still are) fans of another school. I attended BYU and enjoyed sporting events there, but am still a fan of my hometown school. I follow BYU now, but nobody in my family does, they never have, and really never will, I just dont think BYU is a big deal to them.



Maybe I am misinterpreting this thread, but I think BYU just doesnt cause much of a blip on a lot of LDS folks radars, and when over-obsessive BYU fans assume that since you go to church, are active, like sports, etc., that you must also obsess over BYU, or else one of the above mentioned reasons must be "wrong" with you, than it just fuels the fire.



Just my 2 cents. I really like BYU, but I can see how many dislike the school based on the attitude reflected in some of the comments above.

Sounds like your family and those you're in contact with are not the BYU haters that many of us have encountered. Went to dinner with a family last weekend whose dad is a rabid fan, the mom is a BYU prof, sister graduated from BYU, but the younger sister goes to Utah. She says it's because she can't stand BYU because she hates "big brother". These are more the type of people I think many of us have seen. They have just enough exposure to BYU to think they are experts, but haven't really been involved on campus and seen how it really is. They take up their stereotype and build it up in their minds to something even bigger.



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West Idaho



This is true re the LDS that are uninterested or lack passion for BYU - and there are many of those and it is perfectly OK. But there are also haters - that is different.



I went to BYU because my girlfried's parents were sending her there. Otherwise, I was going to go to Utah and would not have even applied to BYU. Wasn't a hater. Just wasn't remotely interested. Football team sucked back then. The guy from my HS, I had won my girlfriend away from went to BYU as a FB. That meant nothing back then.



There was a little ditty that some Mormons would use to razz BYU students kind of like a cheer leader led cheer.



B Y U



Where the girls are girls and the boys are too. I was part of that crowd that thought the goody 2 shoe BYU was for boring nerds - not us wanna be Rock Stars. I was a Jack Mormon with a Jack Mormon father and a saint for a mother. It took me a while to align with my inner Mormon.



But never was a hater. But now, I have seen many a relative get bitter about BYU when their kid did not get in - especially Utah Mormons of the Caucasian variety where BYU by necessity of the sheer numbers turns away some very good applicants.



Then that feeds generation to generation - hatred. I have seen it.



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I'll throw in my 2 cents as well. Having graduated from BYU I can say I do not hate the institution, which I don't think is what the retarded Mormons are hating. They are hating the culture there, the oh, I got into BYU so I must be super righteous and this and that attitude people have. Sadly, this culture extends into the majority of Utah. I was born and raised in Arizona and never once did our ward have an argument about caffeine. The first time I went to church in Utah, the elders quorum had a heated debate about it with some people eventually getting up and leaving. What people need to realize is that A. Just because you go to BYU or have been living in "Zion" all your life doesn't make you better than anyone or more entitled than anyone and B. BYU is an institution with a set of higher standards, period. Its not that big of a deal. Lots of the members my age outside of Utah who don't get in to BYU feel like its a knock on them...like they weren't worthy to go there or something and because of that end up hating BYU. People just need to grow up sometimes and get off their high horses.

AZman wrote:
I'll throw in my 2 cents as well. Having graduated from BYU I can say I do not hate the institution, which I don't think is what the retarded Mormons are hating. They are hating the culture there, the oh, I got into BYU so I must be super righteous and this and that attitude people have. Sadly, this culture extends into the majority of Utah. I was born and raised in Arizona and never once did our ward have an argument about caffeine. The first time I went to church in Utah, the elders quorum had a heated debate about it with some people eventually getting up and leaving. What people need to realize is that A. Just because you go to BYU or have been living in "Zion" all your life doesn't make you better than anyone or more entitled than anyone and B. BYU is an institution with a set of higher standards, period. Its not that big of a deal. Lots of the members my age outside of Utah who don't get in to BYU feel like its a knock on them...like they weren't worthy to go there or something and because of that end up hating BYU. People just need to grow up sometimes and get off their high horses.

So, most of the posters have been saying that they know individuals that dislike BYU because they want to distance themselves from the uber-churchiness and perceived-nerdiness of being LDS. But you'd like to lump the whole of Utah into your vast generalization, one of most Utahns feeling elite, special, etc. because they "live in Zion" and your evidence is that they argue about caffeine. Perhaps it's a vocal minority, like others are talking about in their posts, on both sides.

I've been on both sides of this debate. I lived in Utah during high school at Timpview and part of college at BYU. I was always very bugged by the "out-of-staters" who looked down through their noses at "Utah Mormons" and called us sheltered and self-righteous.



Then I moved out of Utah (for the last 8 years) and began to see what people meant by "Utah Mormons" when I'd visit certain friends and family. There are SOME people exactly like AZman described (i.e. self-righteous, all about the perception of living right rather than actually living right).



However, that self-righteousness doesn't characterize "most" of the BYU/Utah Mormons. Not by a long shot. Most BYU/Utah Mormons are very good people, just like most of the anti-BYU Mormons are. However, there's a small percentage of people on both sides who really manifest their pride...just in different ways. Although there are some prideful, self-righteous BYU fans, there are some anti-BYU Mormons who are just as self-righteous and prideful in the way they hate and look down at BYU students and fans.

I don't understand how anyone could misunderstand or have a dislike for Provo?

I mean who doesn't like Settlers of Catan and girls in wedding dresses chasing you with giant battle axes?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84u5k4bboU4