I guess I missed the point of going Indy

I was under the impression that we did so to prove we were BCS material. I must be missing something here. Two BCS leagues show genuine interest, and all BYU has to do is sacrifice a little TV lucre to join up with the "big boys". Instead, the administration is steadfast in its decision made just last year, when we had no other offers. We are content being the overpaid and overexposed Harlem Globetrotters of college football, with nothing real to play for, nor any peer institutions to compete against - well at least until ESPN grows tired of the deal and we have to find a league again. They pretty much guarantee low attendance and low ratings with 10PM EST start times.



Yes, I was one of the people wanting BYU to try independence for a time, but that was around 2005 when the mtn deal was announced. When independence finally came, I felt it would be temporary until a real league showed interest. Well that has come and gone, and we are still content with playing good teams "on occasion" instead of guaranteed matchups every year. Even if we can line up PAC-12, SEC, Big XII, and ACC games, we can't form any meaningful rivalries with them, or really be on their level. The only way to do that is be in a league. Notre Dame has been independent since the stone ages, and that's just what they are. We don't need to be them. Even the military academies want conference affiliation now.



But alas, this independence decision seems final, and I'll just have to get used to the tune of "Sweet Georgia Brown" that plays before every BYU exhibition game. Much like Notre Dame, our only meaningful seasons will be the ones where we win the National Championship; but unlike ND, our chances of doing so are much slimmer.

Your impression is wrong. We didn't go indy to prove our BCS worth. We did so to gain more control over out broadcast rights and to increase exposure given to the program.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Your impression is wrong. We didn't go indy to prove our BCS worth. We did so to gain more control over out broadcast rights and to increase exposure given to the program.

So now we can broadcast our exhibition games freely. I'm not entirely thrilled. Exposure is guaranteed in a major conference. Legitimacy is also guaranteed - the same cannot be said about independence, as Notre Dame's legitimacy is constantly coming under question. The Big East and Big XII are major conferences. Big XII more major than BIg East, but both have major media markets and schools who can draw fans upwards of 40K each game.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Your impression is wrong. We didn't go indy to prove our BCS worth. We did so to gain more control over out broadcast rights and to increase exposure given to the program.

You are both right, per TH comments.

Bluma wrote:
Exposure is guaranteed in a major conference.

Maybe you should ask Rutgers, South Florida, Wake Forest, NC State, Northwestern, Purdue, Oregon State...and Utah about that.

I don't see how playing NMSU at 9PM on ESPNU and ESPN3 is any better than what those teams have to deal with late in the season. Major conference teams have plenty of opportunities to be on national TV, especially if they are good. Who wants exposure if they are awful? I'd rather hide the team on bad years. Notre Dame can go 2-10 and be on NBC every week. Who would want that? That just tells future players what team NOT to commit to.

Bluma wrote:
We are content being the overpaid and overexposed Harlem Globetrotters of college football, with nothing real to play for, nor any peer institutions to compete against - well at least until ESPN grows tired of the deal and we have to find a league again. They pretty much guarantee low attendance and low ratings with 10PM EST start times.

"real?" a conference championship is "real" but the actual football games are not? We've got tons of conference championships already... I know that we won the WAc several of the years that I was there, and I remember that fact way more than the actual games that I went to.... :roll:

You're also basing your dislike on details of unreleased or rumored deal terms. What we DO know is what we have with ESPN



If either the Big East or Big 12 had offered us:

more money than our ESPN deal (rumor was it's less with Big east, prob more with Big 12),

equal exposure (no conference team has our number of games on ESPN),

acceptance of BYUtv (rumored to be problematic in both discussions),

work with Sunday play (also rumored to be problematic and a deal killer with us regardless),

Full conference membership (see TCU and Utah's first few years in conference),

access to the BCS (now rumored to be going away, impossible to guarantee esp if Big east loses AQ status)

escape clauses (Big 12 has yet to sign their media rights away and every Beast team has contingency plans if not desires to move elsewhere)

rights to broadcast all home games (what we have right now that no other non-Notre Dame team has)

unrestricted replay rights to games

all points guaranteed for a period of not less than 8 years.



if you can beat THOSE terms, then I can guarantee we would have accepted. Please realize we have an amazing deal with ESPN. They would have had to offer an even better one to get us to bite and I think it's clear they weren't expecting our negotiating position to be as good as it was. Yes there are concerns, but i am THRILLED we didn't take a lesser deal because of conference-envy and fleeting BCS promises.

I don't consider being a night-game-only team a "good deal". College football is an afternoon sport. A few night games is alright, but most of the games should be in the daytime, especially in a state as cold as Utah gets. BYU has 8 wins this year. This would have brought sellouts in years past, but NMSU's turnout looked like about 55K or so. The stadium should only be that empty when BYU is 3-8, not 8-3

Bluma wrote:
That just tells future players what team NOT to commit to.

In theory, perhaps, but Notre Dame does pretty darn well in getting good recruits to commit, and I'd bet part of their spin is "hey, you get to play on national TV every single week. No matter where your parents or friends live, they can watch the game." It's also nice for fans, like me, to be able to watch BYU without having to buy an extra tv package or go with a certain provider.

Bluma wrote:
I was under the impression that we did so to prove we were BCS material. I must be missing something here. Two BCS leagues show genuine interest, and all BYU has to do is sacrifice a little TV lucre to join up with the "big boys". Instead, the administration is steadfast in its decision made just last year, when we had no other offers. We are content being the overpaid and overexposed Harlem Globetrotters of college football, with nothing real to play for, nor any peer institutions to compete against - well at least until ESPN grows tired of the deal and we have to find a league again. They pretty much guarantee low attendance and low ratings with 10PM EST start times.



Yes, I was one of the people wanting BYU to try independence for a time, but that was around 2005 when the mtn deal was announced. When independence finally came, I felt it would be temporary until a real league showed interest. Well that has come and gone, and we are still content with playing good teams "on occasion" instead of guaranteed matchups every year. Even if we can line up PAC-12, SEC, Big XII, and ACC games, we can't form any meaningful rivalries

with them, or really be on their level. The only way to do that is be in a league. Notre Dame has been independent since the stone ages, and that's just what they are. We don't need to be them. Even the military academies want conference affiliation now.



But alas, this independence decision seems final, and I'll just have to get used to the tune of "Sweet Georgia Brown" that plays before every BYU exhibition game. Much like Notre Dame, our only meaningful seasons will be the ones where we win the National Championship; but unlike ND, our chances of doing so are much slimmer.

BTW - Army was the first to tell BEAST WEST - no thanks. AFA is still on the Fence. Navy may not go unless AFA goes.



The Independents are the stumbling blocks - BSU, UCF, Houston, and SMU - not to mention SDSU just asked where do I sign and nothing else.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
BTW - Army was the first to tell BEAST WEST - no thanks. AFA is still on the Fence. Navy may not go unless AFA goes.



The Independents are the stumbling blocks - BSU, UCF, Houston, and SMU - not to mention SDSU just asked where do I sign and nothing else.



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I think Army's reason was that they couldn't compete. I dislike the indy deal more and more each week. BYU may be getting millions from it, but who knows how long it will last? What if ESPN decides their investment isn't paying off? What if ESPN gets bought out by Rupert Murdoch and becomes part of Fox Sports? Then what becomes of our precious deal? WIll Versus or some other network give us the same deal? I'd rather take the conference chance. Play a good set of promising teams each year, or play who knows who, who knows when, and who knows for how much. AQ or no AQ, Long term or short term, the Big East seemed worth a try to me. Independence is just as likely to be there afterwards. This conference shuffle is a rare occurence, and it's worth a shot to take advantage of the realignment by joining a league more up to our profile.

Bluma wrote:
I don't consider being a night-game-only team a "good deal". College football is an afternoon sport. A few night games is alright, but most of the games should be in the daytime, especially in a state as cold as Utah gets. BYU has 8 wins this year. This would have brought sellouts in years past, but NMSU's turnout looked like about 55K or so. The stadium should only be that empty when BYU is 3-8, not 8-3

ok, so to rephrase your argument, 'let's ignore the entire benefits of the ESPN deal because I don't want to attend games at night in a stadium outfitted with thousands of lights because I believe college football is an afternoon game. Oh and it gets cold and I don't like it.



i'm going to disagree with you on this one.Night games are just fine when you consider where it is and how much we're getting paid for it.

Bluma wrote:

BTW - Army was the first to tell BEAST WEST - no thanks. AFA is still on the Fence. Navy may not go unless AFA goes.



The Independents are the stumbling blocks - BSU, UCF, Houston, and SMU - not to mention SDSU just asked where do I sign and nothing else.



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BYU may be getting millions from it, but who knows how long it will last? What if ESPN decides their investment isn't paying off? What if ESPN gets bought out by Rupert Murdoch and becomes part of Fox Sports?

I'd say our deal with ESPN is going to last at least 8 years. I'm not too worried. Even without ESPN's money, BYU already has a worldwide TV station. Maybe ESPN should be worried about being bought out by BYUtv. ;)

Bluma wrote:

BTW - Army was the first to tell BEAST WEST - no thanks. AFA is still on the Fence. Navy may not go unless AFA goes.



The Independents are the stumbling blocks - BSU, UCF, Houston, and SMU - not to mention SDSU just asked where do I sign and nothing else.



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I think Army's reason was that they couldn't compete. I dislike the indy deal more and more each week. BYU may be getting millions from it, but who knows how long it will last? What if ESPN decides their investment isn't paying off? What if ESPN gets bought out by Rupert Murdoch and becomes part of Fox Sports? Then what becomes of our precious deal? WIll Versus or some other network give us the same deal? I'd rather take the conference chance. Play a good set of promising teams each year, or play who knows who, who knows when, and who knows for how much. AQ or no AQ, Long term or short term, the Big East seemed worth a try to me. Independence is just as likely to be there afterwards. This conference shuffle is a rare occurence, and it's worth a shot to take advantage of the realignment by joining a league more up to our profile.

What the hell man? Sorry to throw some sunshine on your rainy parade, but:

1. Yes BYU is getting Millions of dollars with the current BYU deal

2. Yes, that deal might not last forever, but I'd put cash money on it lasting longer than the Big east which,

3. Doesn't give BYU as much money

4. To play horrible teams

5. A long way away

6. Where it may also be cold

7. Oh, and they will only be night games if ESPN is going to carry them (did you catch the Uconn Cincinnati game? oh that's right, no one did)



I'm not saying there's no upside to joining the BE, there is, but BYU has been burned by conference membership before and they:

1. Don't want to do it again and

2. they know what is important to look out for and

3. They already have a golden ticket in their back pocket so they can walk away

BerliNY, well said.



I think that if INDY wasn't working out, BYU would have accepted one of the 2 AQ invitations that have come their way. The fact that they have not accepted says that indy is working out well so far and there's reason to believe it has big upside.

Any conference courting San Diego State after the Y declines...need I say more? Big Least a pretty sorry org, football-wise. I trust the admin and BOT to do what will benefit the university in the long run.

It appears that the mantra that in order to "Be the best, we will play the best," only applies to D2 level competition.

colofan wrote:
It appears that the mantra that in order to "Be the best, we will play the best," only applies to D2 level competition.

you're talking about the Big East, right?

It is about exposure. The national games will do more than anything else in presenting the LDS faith through the football team (which is what the church and school want), and draw the best possible recruits available (which is what the coaches and fans want). So tell me why playing two games on national tv a year and having the rest maybe on a pay channel or only broadcast regionally or locally better? Exposure (national tv) is king. That is why ND who has been wallowing in mediocrotiy for years still gets a lot of four and five star recruits. They are number one in national exposure and now BYU is a very close second.

And please keep in mind this is just year one of independence.