If Coaches plan to red shirt heaps

he should be on the bench right now because odds are riley doesn't make it through next season without injuries. He has not made it through one season without serious injuries and I don't expect it to change. For that reason if jake is going to red shirt then whoever the back up will be needs to be getting all the back up reps and playing experience available starting now.

jonnylingo wrote:
he should be on the bench right now because odds are riley doesn't make it through next season without injuries. He has not made it through one season without serious injuries and I don't expect it to change. For that reason if jake is going to red shirt then whoever the back up will be needs to be getting all the back up reps and playing experience available starting now.

They should have started that in all of the cupcake games. As usual - they missed the oportunity to develop back-ups for the next season. This problem stared in 2009 when they should have developed Riley sooner. IDK if UH or Bowl opponent are going to provide much mop-up opportunity asnd if RIley can't play - Jake gives us our best chance to win right now.

I don't think the coaches have any idea if they are going to redshirt Heaps yet or not, so they can't play another QB to get them ready.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
Jake gives us our best chance to win right now.

This is the point. We want to win games, right? Do we really want to decrease BYU's ability to win in 2011 for the opportunity to "develop" back-ups? When did BYU become the Kansas City Royals? Let's put the best team on the field today so that we can win. Frankly, the Mangum kid and the Stanford transfer look like pretty good talent in the pipeline. Why not let Heaps finish out playing as a back-up starter in 2012 and a Senior starter in 2013?

Again, Riley-Tebow comparisons come to mind. Riley can win now. Just as Tebow is winning now. Both do it unconventionally. Issue is, can either take a team to the next level, and that is the big unknown. What is known is that both get teammate respect for work ethic and style of play, yet both are limited in certain aspects. Fans want to win now, not just develop players for later, so rally around win now guy. Question is, will that be best for long term, and that puts the coaches in a tough spot. Playing Riley for 1 year in order to see Jake transfer and lose two years of play is a tactical long term error. So that has to be considered.



Of course, in the pros, a team can have a good QB for 12-15 years, while in college, you get 5 with a RS year. So that is the main difference. And that is why win now in college plays as opposed to the pros. Smaller windows.



I suspect Jake will RS, with Nelson/Lark running the show next year. having Jake 2013/2014 would be a good thing for BYU for many reasons.

BYULV wrote:
I don't think the coaches have any idea if they are going to redshirt Heaps yet or not, so they can't play another QB to get them ready.



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Why can't they? I mean why couldn't they have in recent blowouts. It is not like Jake hasn't had reps.



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Hmmmm ..... I would love to be a fly on the wall of Bronco's office when Doman & Bronco are having a "closed door session." Some real interesting topics being discussed. Yessssireeee ......

YNot wrote:

Jake gives us our best chance to win right now.

This is the point. We want to win games, right? Do we really want to decrease BYU's ability to win in 2011 for the opportunity to "develop" back-ups? When did BYU become the Kansas City Royals? Let's put the best team on the field today so that we can win. Frankly, the Mangum kid and the Stanford transfer look like pretty good talent in the pipeline. Why not let Heaps finish out playing as a back-up starter in 2012 and a Senior starter in 2013?

To be clear, I said when Riley is injured, Jake gives us the best chance to win. Just want to make sure nobody misses that in the truncated quote above.



I agree, if the game is on the line right now and Riley can't go - go with Jake. In blowout time, get Lark ready because you never know when you might suddenly need him. Re next year - premature to say whether a red-shirt makes sense - so we should have measured Lark this year so we know if he can back up Nelson. If Riley gets injured early next year - you probably go with Jake unless you know Lark can handle it. If Riley gets injured late - you hate to burn a RS at that point and hopefully Lark or someone else can lead the team the rest of that season. If not - you burn the Redshirt. Our failure to get Lark ready may take away a RS option for Jake.



And that wouldn't be the end of the world either.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Jake gives us our best chance to win right now.

This is the point. We want to win games, right? Do we really want to decrease BYU's ability to win in 2011 for the opportunity to "develop" back-ups? When did BYU become the Kansas City Royals? Let's put the best team on the field today so that we can win. Frankly, the Mangum kid and the Stanford transfer look like pretty good talent in the pipeline. Why not let Heaps finish out playing as a back-up starter in 2012 and a Senior starter in 2013?

To be clear, I said when Riley is injured, Jake gives us the best chance to win. Just want to make sure nobody misses that in the truncated quote above.



I agree, if the game is on the line right now and Riley can't go - go with Jake. In blowout time, get Lark ready because you never know when you might suddenly need him. Re next year - premature to say whether a red-shirt makes sense - so we should have measured Lark this year so we know if he can back up Nelson. If Riley gets injured early next year - you probably go with Jake unless you know Lark can handle it. If Riley gets injured late - you hate to burn a RS at that point and hopefully Lark or someone else can lead the team the rest of that season. If not - you burn the Redshirt. Our failure to get Lark ready may take away a RS option for Jake.



And that wouldn't be the end of the world either.



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I would bet that if you asked the coaches, they would tell you that Riley is our starter and Jake is our backup. Next year, Riley will be our starter and Lark will be the backup. I think that the coaches believe that they prepare whatever guy is going to be there to play the role. I don't think they even consider that they need to prepare Lark to be next years backup. They will prepare him to be the backup when he is the backup.

Right now, if Lark's going to play next year, he needs all possible reps. As soon as the coaches feel that it's safe, they need to put James in. Hopefully, he can play two full second-halves, plus take a few snaps in the first halves. With Riley/Jake, we need to explode in the first 15-25 minutes and our defense needs to pitch as near of a shut-out as possible. That's what you try to do all the time, but now, it matters so much more than ever.



Also, you don't put in a fourth-string guy. Lark needs to get all the possible time, and 4th string guys can get time under Riley/James next year while Jake redshirts.

I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

dmcougar wrote:
I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

If we can just establish a constantly working running game (or one that dominates v. horrible teams, works v. average teams, and helps v. elite teams), and Jake works the kinks out of his mental game (more air under the ball, waiting longer, making better decisions, has more grit), Jake plays. Hopefully, running Riley as no. 1 and Lark as no. 2 next year will fix all of that, so that we come back two years from now and dominate.

I am completely opposed to QB2. I want no part of it, nor do I want the coaches to even entertain such a notion.

Here's the QB2 I like: When QB1 graduates, then QB2 plays.

dmcougar wrote:
I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

Completely selfish opinion here (and I think it benefits both players). Heaps has been good enough these last 2 games to remind me why he was so highly rated coming out of HS. Let him develop a year and let Nelson run wild next year as the no.1 QB. Next year would be a blast to watch Nelson run the offense, and JAke SHOULD be able to dominate 2013-2014. Would give BYU a while to figure out who the next QB is.

declocoug wrote:

I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

Completely selfish opinion here (and I think it benefits both players). Heaps has been good enough these last 2 games to remind me why he was so highly rated coming out of HS. Let him develop a year and let Nelson run wild next year as the no.1 QB. Next year would be a blast to watch Nelson run the offense, and JAke SHOULD be able to dominate 2013-2014. Would give BYU a while to figure out who the next QB is.

Good plan! I approve. However, you might want to give all possible backup reps to Lark, as a way to thank him for coming here and being part of our team...he might actually play very well and go to the AFL, CFL, or USFL.

cougarnerd wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

Completely selfish opinion here (and I think it benefits both players). Heaps has been good enough these last 2 games to remind me why he was so highly rated coming out of HS. Let him develop a year and let Nelson run wild next year as the no.1 QB. Next year would be a blast to watch Nelson run the offense, and JAke SHOULD be able to dominate 2013-2014. Would give BYU a while to figure out who the next QB is.

Good plan! I approve. However, you might want to give all possible backup reps to Lark, as a way to thank him for coming here and being part of our team...he might actually play very well and go to the AFL, CFL, or USFL.

2012 will be the chance for all possible reps to be given to Lark.

cougarnerd wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

Completely selfish opinion here (and I think it benefits both players). Heaps has been good enough these last 2 games to remind me why he was so highly rated coming out of HS. Let him develop a year and let Nelson run wild next year as the no.1 QB. Next year would be a blast to watch Nelson run the offense, and JAke SHOULD be able to dominate 2013-2014. Would give BYU a while to figure out who the next QB is.

Good plan! I approve. However, you might want to give all possible backup reps to Lark, as a way to thank him for coming here and being part of our team...he might actually play very well and go to the AFL, CFL, or USFL.

Is the USFL back? I know there is the lingerie league, but I thought the USFL ended in Steve Young's days



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I love how people seem to think that it's such an easy decision. Yeah, just red shirt one guy.



Looking back, I wish Riley hasn't been hurt last year, or at least had gotten hurt one game later. Would make this whole conversation moot.



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BYULV wrote:

declocoug wrote:

I still like the QB2 if were run much better. it would take good management, better than last year, but it could be a good arsenal with both as options. IF Riley's or Jake's egos could handle the "go with what works best" I think it could be pretty dynamic (Leaks and Tebow).

Completely selfish opinion here (and I think it benefits both players). Heaps has been good enough these last 2 games to remind me why he was so highly rated coming out of HS. Let him develop a year and let Nelson run wild next year as the no.1 QB. Next year would be a blast to watch Nelson run the offense, and JAke SHOULD be able to dominate 2013-2014. Would give BYU a while to figure out who the next QB is.

Good plan! I approve. However, you might want to give all possible backup reps to Lark, as a way to thank him for coming here and being part of our team...he might actually play very well and go to the AFL, CFL, or USFL.

Is the USFL back? I know there is the lingerie league, but I thought the USFL ended in Steve Young's days



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IDK



If it's still there, it's an option