BYU no likey the Big East?

You know, I completely understand playing hard ball with the Big East...but pushing too hard with the Big 12 is harder to understand.

pjmuli wrote:
You know, I completely understand playing hard ball with the Big East...but pushing too hard with the Big 12 is harder to understand.

Assuming that's what really happened. I'm thinking its probably more about teams like WVU becoming available when the Big East destabilized more.

BYU tends to think of itself as a big fish and thus wants to be treated as such. Problem is, we're not.

I would not have a hard time thinking that the issue with Big XII and BE are identical. The ESPN deal and Byutv seem to be things that pop up again and again.

Gunk wrote:
BYU tends to think of itself as a big fish and thus wants to be treated as such. Problem is, we're not.

I don't think that BYU thinks its the big fish, so much as it doesn't need the conference - it's more like why Steve Young didn't marry early, he waited for the right situation. If the Big East happens, then great; if not, then we're OK for the next 7 years, much changes in that time frame. We'll wish them well and move on.

I've got no problem with this whatsoever. You want to talk about big fish, BYU may not be the biggest fish, but the Big East ain't just a small pond, it is a freaking cesspool. The conference membership is a revolving door, with half the existing teams looking for the exit.



Their TV deal wasn't going to be any where near as good as what BYU has now. BYU had every game televised, and 10 of them on ESPN networks. No one in the Big East had anything close. Even Utah, for all their Pac-12 money didn't get near as many games nationally televised. And the Big East isn't getting anywhere near as much money or exposure as the Pac 12 deal.



Plus BYU doesn't care so much about the money of a TV deal, as they do about the exposure. As a mid-level member of the Big 12 BYU basically would have been paid more to be seen less. That is the opposite of what the Board of Trustees wants.



Plus, it isn't as though the Big East is pulling out all the stops to woo BYU either. They can whine about BYU wanting special media treatment, but they basically invited BYU to be a part time member. They aren't inviting BYU's basketball teams, only the football.



BYU likes to call their own shots. They don't like being beholden to anyone but the LDS Church. They seem to be happy where they are and it is going to take something more than a football invite to a fire-sale conference to get BYU to stop calling their own shots.

Isola wrote:
I've got no problem with this whatsoever. You want to talk about big fish, BYU may not be the biggest fish, but the Big East ain't just a small pond, it is a freaking cesspool. The conference membership is a revolving door, with half the existing teams looking for the exit.



Their TV deal wasn't going to be any where near as good as what BYU has now. BYU had every game televised, and 10 of them on ESPN networks. No one in the Big East had anything close. Even Utah, for all their Pac-12 money didn't get near as many games nationally televised. And the Big East isn't getting anywhere near as much money or exposure as the Pac 12 deal.



Plus BYU doesn't care so much about the money of a TV deal, as they do about the exposure. As a mid-level member of the Big 12 BYU basically would have been paid more to be seen less. That is the opposite of what the Board of Trustees wants.



Plus, it isn't as though the Big East is pulling out all the stops to woo BYU either. They can whine about BYU wanting special media treatment, but they basically invited BYU to be a part time member. They aren't inviting BYU's basketball teams, only the football.



BYU likes to call their own shots. They don't like being beholden to anyone but the LDS Church. They seem to be happy where they are and it is going to take something more than a football invite to a fire-sale conference to get BYU to stop calling their own shots.

Well said.



Those people who are mad are only mad because they cannot get BYU to agree to a one-sided deal

ABYUFAN wrote:

I've got no problem with this whatsoever. You want to talk about big fish, BYU may not be the biggest fish, but the Big East ain't just a small pond, it is a freaking cesspool. The conference membership is a revolving door, with half the existing teams looking for the exit.



Their TV deal wasn't going to be any where near as good as what BYU has now. BYU had every game televised, and 10 of them on ESPN networks. No one in the Big East had anything close. Even Utah, for all their Pac-12 money didn't get near as many games nationally televised. And the Big East isn't getting anywhere near as much money or exposure as the Pac 12 deal.



Plus BYU doesn't care so much about the money of a TV deal, as they do about the exposure. As a mid-level member of the Big 12 BYU basically would have been paid more to be seen less. That is the opposite of what the Board of Trustees wants.



Plus, it isn't as though the Big East is pulling out all the stops to woo BYU either. They can whine about BYU wanting special media treatment, but they basically invited BYU to be a part time member. They aren't inviting BYU's basketball teams, only the football.



BYU likes to call their own shots. They don't like being beholden to anyone but the LDS Church. They seem to be happy where they are and it is going to take something more than a football invite to a fire-sale conference to get BYU to stop calling their own shots.

Well said.



Those people who are mad are only mad because they cannot get BYU to agree to a one-sided deal

I agree. This is only year one of indy status and we have had more games on national tv than any team not named notre dame.

As for the "unreasonable" statement by college insiders, since when is it unreasonable to have a standard and just because you think it is a good idea to be a part of a conference doesn't make it so. I reiterate, this is just year one. There is time to wait until things are more favorable for us and we don't have to give up on everything we have acheived with independance. We just left a bad marriage and just because some pundits think everyone should be married doesn't mean we should run out and marry the first hillbilly that comes by. It would have been nice to be in the b-12 but I have seen OK on TV maybe twice, texas about four times (once vs BYU), OSU maybe twice. We have been on every week. So all those moaning in their columns about how BYU is being unreasonable can just sit and spin for all I care.

imuakahuku wrote:

Isola wrote:
I've got no problem with this whatsoever. You want to talk about big fish, BYU may not be the biggest fish, but the Big East ain't just a small pond, it is a freaking cesspool. The conference membership is a revolving door, with half the existing teams looking for the exit.



Their TV deal wasn't going to be any where near as good as what BYU has now. BYU had every game televised, and 10 of them on ESPN networks. No one in the Big East had anything close. Even Utah, for all their Pac-12 money didn't get near as many games nationally televised. And the Big East isn't getting anywhere near as much money or exposure as the Pac 12 deal.



Plus BYU doesn't care so much about the money of a TV deal, as they do about the exposure. As a mid-level member of the Big 12 BYU basically would have been paid more to be seen less. That is the opposite of what the Board of Trustees wants.



Plus, it isn't as though the Big East is pulling out all the stops to woo BYU either. They can whine about BYU wanting special media treatment, but they basically invited BYU to be a part time member. They aren't inviting BYU's basketball teams, only the football.



BYU likes to call their own shots. They don't like being beholden to anyone but the LDS Church. They seem to be happy where they are and it is going to take something more than a football invite to a fire-sale conference to get BYU to stop calling their own shots.

Well said.



Those people who are mad are only mad because they cannot get BYU to agree to a one-sided deal

I agree. This is only year one of indy status and we have had more games on national tv than any team not named notre dame.

As for the "unreasonable" statement by college insiders, since when is it unreasonable to have a standard and just because you think it is a good idea to be a part of a conference doesn't make it so. I reiterate, this is just year one. There is time to wait until things are more favorable for us and we don't have to give up on everything we have acheived with independance. We just left a bad marriage and just because some pundits think everyone should be married doesn't mean we should run out and marry the first hillbilly that comes by. It would have been nice to be in the b-12 but I have seen OK on TV maybe twice, texas about four times (once vs BYU), OSU maybe twice. We have been on every week. So all those moaning in their columns about how BYU is being unreasonable can just sit and spin for all I care.

I agree!

I can be happy about Indy. I live in Hawaii and TZv coverage has been a life-style changing event. Unfortunately, it was for my BYU student sons who chose Lawboy's couch over using my season tickets as the games got later and the temperatures dropped, and the SOS dropped further. I threatened not to renew next year and they went to the first half.



But quit whining about the cupcakes. Indy will only work if we win consistently on whatever day of the week or time of night we get slotted. We will be polarizing - like BSU. People will whine that we never play anyone good. As long as we say home and away or no way - we will be fine. We will get a following outside the Church. Other have nots will pull for us to get a shot. We will rack up gaudy win totals. Players like to win - many will continue to come. We have to beat U and USU regularly. We have to beat who we are supposed to beat. We have to go undefeated every two or three years with only 1 or 2 losses the other years. We cannot over-schedule. We can grow and get more ambitious when we prove we can do this regularly.



I could also be OK with BEAST WEST, but bring on the cake OOC like nearly every other BCS team. Do not give up fan TV access. It is huge. It will bring recruits who live far away but want their family and friends to be able to follow them. I think we can COMPETE in BEAST WEST. I did not say DOMINATE. We couldn't even dominate MWC anymore and were a 3 about to drop to 4 when BSU joined the MWC. We could compete - but in off years - a losing record in conference. We need to be undefeated OOC so a bad year is still a bowl eligible year or our recruiting will suffer. Good players like to win. They join programs that win. That is why staring a USU loss and a 2-3 record in the face brought a QB change in 2011 after a similar situation got the DC fired in 2010.



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My take on this is that fans outside of Utah who do not travel to home games, do not buy tickets, do not buy concessions and who basically have no skin in the game love Indy. Yet fans who actually buy tickets, attend the games and financially support the program buying tickets, paying for Cougar Club and concessions, etc. do not because they want better games at LES.



You do realize that BYU makes more $$$ on game day from tickets sales, etc than they make per game on the ESPN deal, right? Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have, but BYU needs to take care of those who actually pay $$$ to come to games as they support the program financially. That will wane with crappy home schedules. This year proves it. And exposure is a word thrown around a lot, but tell me how often you have seen BYU highlights on ESPN this year? In November??



Yeah--that's what I thought.

imuakahuku wrote:

Isola wrote:
I've got no problem with this whatsoever. You want to talk about big fish, BYU may not be the biggest fish, but the Big East ain't just a small pond, it is a freaking cesspool. The conference membership is a revolving door, with half the existing teams looking for the exit.



Their TV deal wasn't going to be any where near as good as what BYU has now. BYU had every game televised, and 10 of them on ESPN networks. No one in the Big East had anything close. Even Utah, for all their Pac-12 money didn't get near as many games nationally televised. And the Big East isn't getting anywhere near as much money or exposure as the Pac 12 deal.



Plus BYU doesn't care so much about the money of a TV deal, as they do about the exposure. As a mid-level member of the Big 12 BYU basically would have been paid more to be seen less. That is the opposite of what the Board of Trustees wants.



Plus, it isn't as though the Big East is pulling out all the stops to woo BYU either. They can whine about BYU wanting special media treatment, but they basically invited BYU to be a part time member. They aren't inviting BYU's basketball teams, only the football.



BYU likes to call their own shots. They don't like being beholden to anyone but the LDS Church. They seem to be happy where they are and it is going to take something more than a football invite to a fire-sale conference to get BYU to stop calling their own shots.

Well said.



Those people who are mad are only mad because they cannot get BYU to agree to a one-sided deal

I agree. This is only year one of indy status and we have had more games on national tv than any team not named notre dame.

As for the "unreasonable" statement by college insiders, since when is it unreasonable to have a standard and just because you think it is a good idea to be a part of a conference doesn't make it so. I reiterate, this is just year one. There is time to wait until things are more favorable for us and we don't have to give up on everything we have acheived with independance. We just left a bad marriage and just because some pundits think everyone should be married doesn't mean we should run out and marry the first hillbilly that comes by. It would have been nice to be in the b-12 but I have seen OK on TV maybe twice, texas about four times (once vs BYU), OSU maybe twice. We have been on every week. So all those moaning in their columns about how BYU is being unreasonable can just sit and spin for all I care.

If you've only seen those teams that much, you must not watch much college football. You can see them almost every week.



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Lawboy wrote:
My take on this is that fans outside of Utah who do not travel to home games, do not buy tickets, do not buy concessions and who basically have no skin in the game love Indy. Yet fans who actually buy tickets, attend the games and financially support the program buying tickets, paying for Cougar Club and concessions, etc. do not because they want better games at LES.



You do realize that BYU makes more $$$ on game day from tickets sales, etc than they make per game on the ESPN deal, right? Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have, but BYU needs to take care of those who actually pay $$$ to come to games as they support the program financially. That will wane with crappy home schedules. This year proves it. And exposure is a word thrown around a lot, but tell me how often you have seen BYU highlights on ESPN this year? In November??



Yeah--that's what I thought.

Except we've all been there... we've all at one time or another been to BYU and froze through November home games, and have now "gone forth" - when our kids are there we'll be back there again to support them, but for now, we just buy stuff from BYU bookstore online and donate to the school through the alumni association.



I'd love to see where BYU brings more money in, through the football program or alumni donations, I know that I donate more to the school than I would spend on a couple of games (but admittedly less than a season ticket's worth) but that also allows another to actually use the season ticket. I know that you didn't mean to imply that those of us outside of hte state are freeloaders, but you may want to remember that TV exposure brings in more money than just the TV money.

The ESPN Deal is rumored to give BYU anywhere from $800k-$2M per game. I would assume all the WAC games gave us $800k. Perhaps he Utah game the $2M. The UCF game was Friday, so maybe $1M. So the average home game from ESPN probably brought in $1M per game on average. IS that a fair assessment? 6 games--$6M. BYUtv amount--no idea.



Tickets sells, if BYU sells out, it is 62,500. Average this year was about 58,000. At $30 per ticket, that is $1.74M. At $40 per ticket, that is $2.32M. At $50 per ticket, that is $2.9M. I am inclined to think that the average is near $50 per seat, with Legacy and Donor seating prices, which are offset by student and other seating prices.



Home fans who buy tickets, concessions and merchandise on game day still butter BYU's bread more than ESPN does. Yes it is nice. But you gotta take care of the ticket buying fan base. TV revenue can not completely offset a loss in ticket sales lost.



Even with ESPN, BYU needs better home games, and especially late in the year. It needs to start by 2013. That is the season I look at to see if we are going to pull it off.

Lawboy wrote:

Even with ESPN, BYU needs better home games, and especially late in the year. It needs to start by 2013. That is the season I look at to see if we are going to pull it off.

We essentially agree on this point. You probably have more of an emphasis on the "needs" and I'd probably quibble and say "would be greatly benefited by" but we’re awfully close to being on the same page.

The Big east is the MWC with a BCS bid. the question is, is it going to keep that bid? I have a feeling that it won't. I have said it from the beginning, the big east is not the right fit for BYU. IMO it is either independance or the Big 12. I don't like Independance so that leaves the big 12 which it seems doesn't want us. Just an overall crappy situation.

Lawboy wrote:
The ESPN Deal is rumored to give BYU anywhere from $800k-$2M per game. I would assume all the WAC games gave us $800k. Perhaps he Utah game the $2M. The UCF game was Friday, so maybe $1M. So the average home game from ESPN probably brought in $1M per game on average. IS that a fair assessment? 6 games--$6M. BYUtv amount--no idea.



Tickets sells, if BYU sells out, it is 62,500. Average this year was about 58,000. At $30 per ticket, that is $1.74M. At $40 per ticket, that is $2.32M. At $50 per ticket, that is $2.9M. I am inclined to think that the average is near $50 per seat, with Legacy and Donor seating prices, which are offset by student and other seating prices.



Home fans who buy tickets, concessions and merchandise on game day still butter BYU's bread more than ESPN does. Yes it is nice. But you gotta take care of the ticket buying fan base. TV revenue can not completely offset a loss in ticket sales lost.



Even with ESPN, BYU needs better home games, and especially late in the year. It needs to start by 2013. That is the season I look at to see if we are going to pull it off.

Interesting to balance! My obsevation is that the "lost 4,000 souls" are in the $30 ranges--up in the nose bleeds so that what you lose is perhaps $120K ($30 X 4K) How would that loss of revenue compare to the gain in revenue?

frdbtr wrote:
The Big east is the MWC with a BCS bid. the question is, is it going to keep that bid? I have a feeling that it won't. I have said it from the beginning, the big east is not the right fit for BYU. IMO it is either independance or the Big 12. I don't like Independance so that leaves the big 12 which it seems doesn't want us. Just an overall crappy situation.

The Big East is the MWC, except without the dogs at the bottom. THese programs have all won at one point and often. None compare to UNLV, UNM and the recent CSU. the bottom of hte MWC was awful. The bottom of the Big East would be teams like SMU or AFA or Navy or ??? Can not compare UCONN (BCS Bowl), BSU (BCS Bowl), Cincinatti (2 BCS bowls), Rutgers, Lousiville, Houston (BCS in 2011?) and SMU. Not even close. Those schools all have better medai markets, better following, better facilities, and more winning.

Lawboy wrote:
The ESPN Deal is rumored to give BYU anywhere from $800k-$2M per game. I would assume all the WAC games gave us $800k. Perhaps he Utah game the $2M. The UCF game was Friday, so maybe $1M. So the average home game from ESPN probably brought in $1M per game on average. IS that a fair assessment? 6 games--$6M. BYUtv amount--no idea.



Tickets sells, if BYU sells out, it is 62,500. Average this year was about 58,000. At $30 per ticket, that is $1.74M. At $40 per ticket, that is $2.32M. At $50 per ticket, that is $2.9M. I am inclined to think that the average is near $50 per seat, with Legacy and Donor seating prices, which are offset by student and other seating prices.



Home fans who buy tickets, concessions and merchandise on game day still butter BYU's bread more than ESPN does. Yes it is nice. But you gotta take care of the ticket buying fan base. TV revenue can not completely offset a loss in ticket sales lost.



Even with ESPN, BYU needs better home games, and especially late in the year. It needs to start by 2013. That is the season I look at to see if we are going to pull it off.

You neglect to account for all the COSTS that BYU puts out to take care of those 62.5K fans. That $50 a ticket isn't all profit--you have to feed the Legacy people, pay the police for running traffic, taxes, security, band uniforms and scholarships, event staff etc. etc.--costs that, if it was just an empty stadium and a television broadcast, you could otherwise avoid. I admit I oversimplify, but only to try and show your oversimplification.



The TV contract has a much greater profit margin than the ticket sales, not to mention the additional revenue BYU is seeing from more and better-paying "sponsors" on BYUTV. They may gross more on ticket sales, but my guess is that the net is overwhelmingly in favor of the TV contract.

The Legacy people pay to feed themselves with their $1000 minimum donation, which is not included. I get that BYU always pays team to come to LES. Rumor was $400k per WAC school. None for Utah, none for UCF as we go play at their place next year. I would bet concessions pay for all of the costs you just listed on game day. I still think BYU clears $1.5M per home game net, if not more. Perhaps closer to $2M. I will look for a source on what BYU netted for football later and post it. 2010 was said to be $15M, or just over $2M per.