Criticisms of Independence

I've been stewing a little bit these past few weeks as I hear many of the sports guys on local (Utah) sports talk radio go over the same old criticisms of our independence. They talk about BCS access, bowl game tie-ins, November scheduling issues, and lack of fan interest. I don't deny that there are concerns with those things, however, I'm not as worried as they make us all out to be. I may be in the minority, but I have trust (some may call it faith ;) ) in our AD and the BOT. I'm confident that whatever moves are made (or not made) by our university are the right ones. I personally have enjoyed these November games and am still excited to watch my Cougars play. It seems like most fans have responded in like fashion. Looking on TV at the attendance on Saturday the stadium looked very full. I don't think the fan interest is as low as talking heads would have us believe. I'm proud of our team and look forward to more exciting times to come. Sheesh, I'm a BYU sap.

Magnus Ver Magnusson wrote:
I've been stewing a little bit these past few weeks as I hear many of the sports guys on local (Utah) sports talk radio go over the same old criticisms of our independence. They talk about BCS access, bowl game tie-ins, November scheduling issues, and lack of fan interest. I don't deny that there are concerns with those things, however, I'm not as worried as they make us all out to be. I may be in the minority, but I have trust (some may call it faith ;) ) in our AD and the BOT. I'm confident that whatever moves are made (or not made) by our university are the right ones. I personally have enjoyed these November games and am still excited to watch my Cougars play. It seems like most fans have responded in like fashion. Looking on TV at the attendance on Saturday the stadium looked very full. I don't think the fan interest is as low as talking heads would have us believe. I'm proud of our team and look forward to more exciting times to come. Sheesh, I'm a BYU sap.

+1



The whole ESPN deal and BYUtv angle is too awesome, if that alone kills the big east deal, so be it.

If we're all about getting our name out there. Then joining any other conference is pointless.



Joining a conference for a BCS bowl tie in shouldn't be a concern or even a thought. If it is... Then there's more to it, than just national access, cause we have that now.



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The whole issue goes away once BYU starts announcing home and homes with big name teams, for October and November. And it really is that simple. The whole issue with 2011 is that we have 2 games in November, both against poor WAC teams, and no game on rivalry weekend, which is the biggest weekend in college football. BYU-Utah used to get solid attention, and now we have no game at all. All while Utah is playing PAC games home and away. It is a stark contrast.



Indy has potential, but only if late season home scheduling improves. If that can happen, I would be happy with Indy. If it does not happen, I won't be.

Bowl games: who cares, there is only one bowl game that "matters", the rest are just exhibition games. I will watch my team regardless of the bowl game. Even the other BCS games don't seem to offer any financial advantage, some teams even lose money on the deal. Sure, it would be a nice boost to your status to play in one but unless you're in the championship game, so what. No difference between finishing 3rd, 18th, or 30th in the polls. Caveat, somehow it would be nice to have more tie-ins/access to multiple bowl games depending upon our success, just so a 12-0 team goes BCS, a 11-1 goes Holiday, a 10-2 goes Vegas, every other goes wherever. But to sacrifice TV deals and everything else for a bowl game, forget it.



Scheduling: what's the difference between beating Idaho, and NMSt 84-14 in November and UNLV and New Mexico 95-14 in November? Not much. Scheduling in independence was fine this year and will only improve.



Motivation: I hate the talk that there is "nothing to play for" without a conference. We sound like undercoached and immature Pac-10 bozos who couldn't get up for the Vegas bowl and that's why BYU beat them. You play to win the game. How's that for motivation.

ProV1 wrote:

Scheduling: what's the difference between beating Idaho, and NMSt 84-14 in November and UNLV and New Mexico 95-14 in November? Not much. Scheduling in independence was fine this year and will only improve.

So you are comparing Indy to MWC. Wow. Pretty low bar.



Who around here was really pleased with the MWC bottom feeders? So why should we be pleased with WAC bottom feeders? For 6 games per, we shouldn't. For 2, with the other 4 being schedule upgrades, let's talk. Adding Houston, UCF, S. Miss and BSU is an upgrade for sure. We still keep USU and Hawaii--2 WAC schools. But we still need the top tier games--and need them at LES, and late in the season. September scheduling has never been an issue for BYU. But late October/November now is, especially with no Utah game Thanksgiving weekend to build up to.

Lawboy wrote:

Scheduling: what's the difference between beating Idaho, and NMSt 84-14 in November and UNLV and New Mexico 95-14 in November? Not much. Scheduling in independence was fine this year and will only improve.

So you are comparing Indy to MWC. Wow. Pretty low bar.

Scheduling was fine "for this year and will only improve." Short notice and all, my point was it wasn't worse than the MWC. I hated the MWC bottom feeders and was glad to get W's against other bottom feeders for a change. I'm just not thrilled to turn into Utah and lose 5 games a year. (If they actually make the Rose Bowl, though, I'll change my tune.)

It is about winning. If byu wins a lot independence will be fine and could be even better than a conference.



but that is my problem. i have little faith in our coaching staff to lead us to anything better than a 10 win season. 10 wins is good, but to make splash we need to do better. tcu, utah, bsu have all done it with less than us.

Lawboy wrote:
The whole issue goes away once BYU starts announcing home and homes with big name teams, for October and November. And it really is that simple. The whole issue with 2011 is that we have 2 games in November, both against poor WAC teams, and no game on rivalry weekend, which is the biggest weekend in college football. BYU-Utah used to get solid attention, and now we have no game at all. All while Utah is playing PAC games home and away. It is a stark contrast.



Indy has potential, but only if late season home scheduling improves. If that can happen, I would be happy with Indy. If it does not happen, I won't be.

Once you get past the emotional overreaction - and look at the facts- BYU has always played cupcakes in November. This is what has been different the past two years and 2010,was not Indy - but apathy reigned in late 2010 as well.



We played tough road games early and all of the undefeated season, or 1-loss Top 10 and even

our minimally acceptable 11-2 went out the window. We are 8-3 with a blowout loss to Utah who is on the rise as a program, second loss in a row, nearly had back-to-back losses to USU, killed by Nevada, out-classed annually by TCU and BSU even when we do not play them.



Oh - and the double Heisman candidate fizzled and will not win two of those before going NFL early as the #1 pick enroute to 3 super bowl rings - won't be breaking any records.



Apathy.



And yes - two byes in November with two late night cup cakes in cold weather - available on your couch at home - apathy deepens.



Racking up a couple of more losses or even more and do not assume we cake walk past UH and Tulsa, would not solve the apathy problem.



BYU fans are spoiled and feel entitled to a NC chase annually and many came on here last year to make it clear that 10-3 and 11-2 Vs cupcakes does not cut it. Big changes were made to raise our ceiling. Nonetheless, we followed 7-6 with 3 early losses and have not beaten anyone of note in over two years.



The answer is not a tougher schedule. It is better coaching and execution and preparation or more realistic expectations - neither of which seems likely



Except - our young team will gain experience and may get back to 11-2 in 2012 or 2013 if we do not over schedule or at least beat a good team once in a while if one ever comes to Provo.



Utah has what you seem to want. They will probably end up with 5 or 6 losses depending on whether they trip and fall into the PAC Championship game. And this in the year they did not

need to play Oregon or Stanford in the regular season and USC is ineligible to win PAC or go bowling and PAC is down. Are you sure you want that?



We had Utah in Provo. We were favored to win. We even knocked Jordan Wynn around early. Utah was in a rebuild with a washed up -according to BYU fans, OC, and they kicked our cans. That is at the root of fan apathy. If we had beaten Utah as we were supposed to - we would be ranked, striving for 11-2 and a top 12 finish and there would be no apathy - especially if Jake Heaps was getting Heisman watch attention. and Utah would be staring a 7-6 season in the face.



The schedule was fine. The execution was not. The expectations were unrealistic. This is a young team and a young coaching staff.



Go Cougs



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ProV1 wrote:

ProV1 wrote:

Scheduling: what's the difference between beating Idaho, and NMSt 84-14 in November and UNLV and New Mexico 95-14 in November? Not much. Scheduling in independence was fine this year and will only improve.

So you are comparing Indy to MWC. Wow. Pretty low bar.

Scheduling was fine "for this year and will only improve." Short notice and all, my point was it wasn't worse than the MWC. I hated the MWC bottom feeders and was glad to get W's against other bottom feeders for a change. I'm just not thrilled to turn into Utah and lose 5 games a year. (If they actually make the Rose Bowl, though, I'll change my tune.)

Stick with your tune. Utah may make it to PAC Conf Champ Game and lose big to Oregon or Stanford unless they really are as good as we made them look. Utes are my 2nd favorite team - but I expect a blowout loss. That makes 5. Then they will get a pretty decent Bowl Game Vs a good opponent. Chalk up loss number 6. If we had beaten them - they would have lost 7 in this scenario. Your tune is likely right on key.



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Lawboy wrote:
. BYU-Utah used to get solid attention, and now we have no game at all. All while Utah is playing PAC games home and away. It is a stark contrast.

Yeah, but we didn't have any say so in that, Utah BYU was never going to be this weekend ever again after Utah went to the Pac 12, so it's not like we should have stayed in the MWC just to get ... who CSU? this weekend?

Lawboy wrote:
The whole issue goes away once BYU starts announcing home and homes with big name teams, for October and November. And it really is that simple. The whole issue with 2011 is that we have 2 games in November, both against poor WAC teams, and no game on rivalry weekend, which is the biggest weekend in college football. BYU-Utah used to get solid attention, and now we have no game at all. All while Utah is playing PAC games home and away. It is a stark contrast.



Indy has potential, but only if late season home scheduling improves. If that can happen, I would be happy with Indy. If it does not happen, I won't be.

I actually like taking the risk of bringing big name teams to Provo. But only home and away and Not too many - fortunately, there is a very short list of willing opponents and it always has been a short list. They will not risk losing OOC unless the odds stack in their favor.



BSU understands the value of a regional rivalry. I hope we do not tick them off. I hope we can actually compete with them. Many hate this idea - but SDSU hates us enough to build upon that rivalry. Hawaii may lose BSU as a rival if BSU goes BEAST WEST. They would love to rival BYU. IDK if Utah has the guts to play us annually. We should make that game a priority to schedule - no matter the time of year. ND is on tap. Too many road games though. Texas is on tap with 1 and 1 since we already played the extra game at their place. Quite frankly - the schedules are tougher than we have demonstrated our ability to play.



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What big name teams are we going to be playing in November if we are in the Big East, West??

snoscythe wrote:
What big name teams are we going to be playing in November if we are in the Big East, West??

I was wondering the same thing.

ABYUFAN wrote:

. BYU-Utah used to get solid attention, and now we have no game at all. All while Utah is playing PAC games home and away. It is a stark contrast.

Yeah, but we didn't have any say so in that, Utah BYU was never going to be this weekend ever again after Utah went to the Pac 12, so it's not like we should have stayed in the MWC just to get ... who CSU? this weekend?

BSU or Hawaii becomes our U rivalry replacement. It is what it is. U went. PAC does not want to help BYU.



BYU is not popular with PAC for political reasons. Some of that showed up in Big 12 at the end. Big 10 has always been too elitist. SEC is too smart to risk losing OOC except for SEC bottom teams where losing does not matter as much. But even Ole Miss was one and done.



Beast and ACC may play us once in a rare while straight up.



We do not have many friends. Burned a lot of MWC bridges. WAC fences have been mended but look who is left. C-USA relationship seems OK. BEAST was OK. But I think the bridge may be starting to burn.



We can none-the-less make Indy work if we let ESPN use us as time-slot fillers while they try to make us into America's darling like they did while BSU ate cake on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. But we have to win and have charismatic players that capture fan interest.



Maybe a smaller stadium with Blue Turf?



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+2



I to am willing to trust the AD and BOT to do the right thing, and I hope they always will do it in ways that are both "peculiar" and "counter-to-the-standard-world-view." All of this is designed to give BYU and the church access to new eyes and ears in ways designed to best promote their message and image. I am in the Northwest and can verify that has been accomplished hugely in this part of the world. I have heard more about BYU football in many different ways, than ever before.



I do not feel sorry for the cry-babies in Utah who have been able to watch every game in person or on TV for years and who don't like our "typical MWC" schedule this year. I have been able to see EVERY game this year, for the first time ever. This might not be heaven, but it is sure starting to feel like it. I get the feeling that going to the Big East might not be so heavenly - especially if the BCS changes, which it always does.



We all knew the first year or two of independence would have warts on the schedule - but the following years are looking much better. We all knew that BYU always does better with an upper class man at QB. Finally, we all should know what happens when you try to steady the Ark.

declocoug wrote:

What big name teams are we going to be playing in November if we are in the Big East, West??

I was wondering the same thing.

Boise State was rumored to be the Thanksgiving weekend game. Word is, BYU is still trying to swing it. Hence, the 12 year deal. As of now, October it is. If in Big east, it goes to Thanksgiving weekend. ESPN would LOVE to promote this game.



Plus, you can;t tell me that playing Air Force, SMU, Houston or any other BE team at home in November doesn;t beat NMSU, Idaho or any other WAC game. especially if we are in teh hunt to make the BE Champ game. That excitement would get butts in seats.

declocoug wrote:

What big name teams are we going to be playing in November if we are in the Big East, West??

I was wondering the same thing.

I would say BSU is an upgrade from this November schedule. I would also rather see BYU play AFA, Houston, and SMU are better teams that could be in late October and November in the big east. Rutgers and UConn are even better than what we have.

ProV1 wrote:
Bowl games: who cares, there is only one bowl game that "matters", the rest are just exhibition games. I will watch my team regardless of the bowl game.

We will be 9-3 playing in the Armed Forces Bowl against...Tulsa? SMU? USM?



The :utard: is projected to be 8-4, and playing in the Sun Bowl against OU or the Holiday Bowl against Baylor.



You can't tell me that there's no difference there.

Patience. UH, BSU and eventually ND in November. Is that not good enough for you?