Are BYU Fans The Real Problem - Apathy

There is a lot of apathy goin round these days in the BYU fan base.



There is a list of reasons - or excuses depending on your point of view. Late night games. Cold weather. No conference championship to play for - not that we would be a contender this year. Not enough wins. Friday games. Crappy competition - ironic given that we struggled to beat some of them and lost to all of the good ones. I may have left out an excuse - I mean reason - or two. Heaps being boring to watch. Riley having no upside.



One that does not get mentioned much - Every game has been on Television. People with Season tickets, including my two spoiled BYU student sons, skipped the game Saturday even though they have my season tickets. Being loyal fans - they did order a pizza and have their friends who were also skipping the game come over to watch it. I may make a threat or two to make sure they get used Saturday night - rain or shine - hot or cold. Better TV coverage has contributed to apathy.



But scheduling - especially for home games - especially late in the season - is a big factor. People would more likely buck up if it was BYU vs USC Saturday at noon in LES. Maybe - unless it was too cold or unless we knew we were going to get the crap kicked out of us - which we might this year and would for sure last year and might most years.



But that is not what my main point is either.



Look at your ticket prices - assuming you went to the trouble and expense of getting tickets. What price is on it. Did you pay that price or get a discount. I have my ticket in my hand for BYU @ Hawaii at 2:30PM gametime Saturday Dec 3. Scheduled A little late in the afternoon to accomodate TV but at least daytime in Hawaii. Very late on the East coast, though. It wil not be cold here, although it would be cold in Provo.



I paid $50.00 plus $4 fee. These are decent tickets, but not anything special. The cheapest tickets available were only a little bit less. Hot dogs, sodas, etc., will be nearly double what they cost at LES, most likely.



So here is the question - If Tom Holmoe could somehow get cowardly BCS powers to go home and away with BYU and deliver games in LES during the daytime - even if it got a little cold in November and December - or rained or snowed -



Would you cough up $325 per seat for season tickets to watch that show each year - even if we ended up going 6-6 in a typical year, have a losing season once in a while and have a great 8-4 or 9-3 or rare 10-2 season on occasion. Hint - like Utah might. See Steve Spurrier at the other USC for example. Imagine Utah if they played Oregon and Stanford this year instead of Cal and Oregon State. See ASU. See most BCS teams.



Would you pay? Would you buy the soda, dogs, and popcorn at the inflated prices or smuggle in your own food and beverages? Would you show up even in bad weather?



If we had fans that would cough up that kind of money and fill the stadium and not whine about the cost of hot dogs when the price goes up - OK that was just Air Wolfe - we could pay visiting teams a lot more more money and likely get ESPN main channel prime time EXPOSURE. Would you pay up and show up? Remember - lying is a sin.



If the fans all step up - maybe we knock out a 25,000 seat stadium expansion and put in some luxury boxes.

What do you mean would I? I already do (as far as the ticket price goes and it's not BCS caliber).

I know what YOU think about BYU fans.



BYU fans are some of the best, longest suffering, most loyal fan bases out there.

We had 58k show up last Saturday night for a late game against Idaho that was basically meaningless. Bowl already known, no league title in play. Just a game on a cold night.



I would pay for it. Happily. And still spend what I normally do at games.



But your premise that BYU would have to charge more to be in a BCS league is faulty. In a league, we do not pay other league teams to come play us. Just the OOC games. So having a BCS schedule would not cost BYU any more $$$. But the BCS caliber OOC games would. So at most, 2 more games cost more, so tickets might go up slightly. And it would be worth it.

EM_Puma wrote:
What do you mean would I? I already do (as far as the ticket price goes and it's not BCS caliber).

What I mean is - BYU tickets for comparable seats are currently priced much lower than any stadium I have ever attended for a college football game. My BYU seats are on the 30 yard line on the East side, in the afternoon / evening sun, about 3/4 of the way up. I have renewed them for my mother who is a retired BYU staff and thus get a discount. I hav erenewed them and let family members use them - as I rarely can du eto living in Hawaii and California before that. Had them for so long, I can't remember when I first started. it was pre Ty Detmer.



The seats I bought for the Hawaii game, were the best available at the time I bough them, but nowhere near the 30 yard line and probably 3/4 of the way up iirc. Tickets here, at UCLA, USC, SDSU, etc. are higher in price. Noticeably higher. Concessoinstand prices are higher - noticeably higher.



So what I am asking is if you would pay 50% higher or more than what you pay now - to create funding to pay a visiting team more money - so we could get more of them to come.



This year - I don't remember what I paid - but I found my 2009 receipt and it was under $150 for the season - three UH games would cost hat much for seats not any beter. Withoutthe staff discount - it is a little higher.



What are fans paying at BYU per ticket and where are the seats? Maybe my perception that they are a bargain is incorrect. Let me know.

Cougarbib2 wrote:

What do you mean would I? I already do (as far as the ticket price goes and it's not BCS caliber).

What I mean is - BYU tickets for comparable seats are currently priced much lower than any stadium I have ever attended for a college football game. My BYU seats are on the 30 yard line on the East side, in the afternoon / evening sun, about 3/4 of the way up. I have renewed them for my mother who is a retired BYU staff and thus get a discount. I hav erenewed them and let family members use them - as I rarely can du eto living in Hawaii and California before that. Had them for so long, I can't remember when I first started. it was pre Ty Detmer.



The seats I bought for the Hawaii game, were the best available at the time I bough them, but nowhere near the 30 yard line and probably 3/4 of the way up iirc. Tickets here, at UCLA, USC, SDSU, etc. are higher in price. Noticeably higher. Concessoinstand prices are higher - noticeably higher.



So what I am asking is if you would pay 50% higher or more than what you pay now - to create funding to pay a visiting team more money - so we could get more of them to come.



This year - I don't remember what I paid - but I found my 2009 receipt and it was under $150 for the season - three UH games would cost hat much for seats not any beter. Withoutthe staff discount - it is a little higher.



What are fans paying at BYU per ticket and where are the seats? Maybe my perception that they are a bargain is incorrect. Let me know.

Found em - 2011 - I paid under $175 for 7 games - $25 per game. Bargain. Regular price may be $30 or $35, I suppose. Still a bargain. My BYU seats are better than my UH seats too and I paid $54.00.



Parking is a bargain too. Trust me.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I know what YOU think about BYU fans.



BYU fans are some of the best, longest suffering, most loyal fan bases out there.

You left out CHEAP. I am a BYU fan - and a little cheap myself. Don't take it personally. I generally do not buy the food and souveniers. Used to stop at Hogi Yogi just off campus prior to the game - before they closed it.



I have sat in Soldiers Field at a Chicago Bears game in a snowmobile suit - and seen true fans (albeit crazy) in blue jeans an dsneakers with tee shirts off in 30 degree below zero weather. I have seen Chicago Cubs fans never miss a game at Wrigely Field - leaving work early 0 no night game sback then - and the Cubs never win.



Go to a high school game in Texas or Florida and you will see what I mean.



Don't look to the North to make your case. Those are really fair weather fans. Utah is not a place where football is life. That is what I am saying.

I paid over $50.00 each for BYU @ Boston College and another $30.00 for not so close parking +hotel, +gas+++++. When I got there I found thousands of BYU fans (alot of very classy BC fans as well). Last year, I went to Buffalo for Basketball, the place was filled with BYU fans. There were more BYU fans than Buffalo fans. I would have gone to the game in Glens Falls as well, but I couldn't get tickets anywhere for any price within my price range. That game was sold out as well and it wasn't just Jimmer fans. There is a reason that BYU has a reputation for travelling well. BYU fans come out to games. I don't think that BYU will have any problem consistently filling their own stadium at BCS prices when they currently fill everyone elses stadiums at BCS prices. You will always have some whinny fans. I don't see any apathy among BYU fans on this coast.

People also make less money in SLC/Provo and everything is realitivly cheaper. I think my Utah ticket was $95 this year and the other games are around $30.



We've had 6 seats for 20 years and our seats get progressivly worse each year alegedly because others donate more and more. We used to be 50 yard line 1/2 way up before the legacy seats were built. Now were on the 15 yard line and they get worse each year. Money doesn't seem to be an issue for many cougar fans. (Although the legacy seaters seem to be the latest to arrive, 1st to go home, and last back in at half time. I think it may be the chocolate fountain)



The only apathy I've had this year is when I was sick to my stomach in fear that Super Conferances would wipe us off the earth. (That may have been a blessing as I wasn't so concerned with Utah destroying us)



Would we even have to pay the other team if it is a 1 for 1?

yes BYU fans are cheaper. We have to be. Last I checked Utah salaries were in the 40th percentile in the country, and costs were like 60th percentile. that means Utah is an expensive place to live in comparison to salaries.



now you take that same comparison to Stanford and the bay area? Salaries and expenses i believe are 99th percentile. Not rally a fair comparison. Stanford residents pay more and earn quite a bit more than those in Utah.



also, LES is bigger than most of the BCS teams we would play. We have a GREAT venue. One way BYU gets away with lower ticket prices is having more butts in seats. It's the McDonalds model. We don't make dollars with high priced items when we can make money on higher volume.

I live out of state and could not attend the games (work does not allow). But if I lived there I would and I paid for my daughters All-Pass when she was attending the games.

I understand the low wages issue. Often, a larger than average family to support too. But if you want home and away with Nebraska - the economics have to work for them and they may take an extra home game against whomever is willing to come one and done or 2 for 1 given that they will fill that huge stadium regardless of weather, time of day, or opponent rather than travel to play for 65,000 at $25 a seat or $30.



80,000 x $50 = $4M per game vs say $1.5M per game.



Again - do not look North for comparisons. U does not travel so well and has a small stadium. Iirc - higher ticket prices, though.



Look Michigan with 100,000 or so and Ohio State and Florida, and ND, and all of the other places where football is life. They can pay and get whomever they want.



I actually prefer the family friendly style of BYU even if the lack if beer revenue and lower ticket revenue means we can't compete with the payouts needed to get the big boys to come here home and away. Our compromise is un-neutral fields like Jerry World.



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PS



Hawaii generally has Utah wages and higher than California cost of living - but it is still $50 for a pretty ordinary sideline seat.



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Don't know why you keep saying "don't look north for comparisons..." Nobody has said anything about the losers up north. We all know they aren't a real team or have any real fans.

FWIW LES by wikipedia and my count has the 38th largest NCAA stadium in the country of about 120-- including a few teams (SDSU and Tulane for example) that play in NFL stadiums.



Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio St and the others that top the list with 6 digit stadium capacities obviously don't fit my argument. But the 80-90 schools that have smaller stadiums than us, including most of the rumored Big east coincidentally, fit very nicely.

I don't like seeing LES at 55-58 K, but let's not make any mistake - for a fanbase to convince that many fans to come at 7:15 on a cold November night to watch an FCS-in-all-but-name team is freaking impressive. I remember looking at the Big XII attendance figures when all that stuff was happening, and being surprised at how many programs couldn't even come close to filling their RES-sized stadiums, even when Texas and OU came to town.



I don't like this November, I agree there's a sense of meaninglessness to our remaining games, and I think if this continues it could deflate the program.



But you wanna see true apathetic fans? Try Purdue, who hosted Ohio State last week:

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h387/dcr36/purdue.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



Or Kansas hosting a good Baylor team:

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h387/dcr36/kansas.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



Or a Pac-12 matchup between Arizona and UCLA:

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h387/dcr36/arizona.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



It's been a down year, but just because CougarBoard threw a 3-week long hissy fit doesn't mean that Cougar Nation has been immobilized by apathy.

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/24718/surveying-the-big-12-attendance-numbers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I found the above link on ESPN, showing average 2010 Home attendance for Big XII schools. Note that BYU would be in the top half of the Big XII...and Nebraska was included in the figures. I think BYU is doing okay.



Also, the ESPN and BYUtv deals have been EXTREMELY awesome for out-of-state BYU alumni and fans. I moved to Utah from Oregon a few years ago. The only games I could get on TV were if they were showcased on Versus. (ugh!) BYU's fans nation and word-wide can now watch the team...



As a side note, looking at the Big XII attendance stats....why do we want to join the Big XII? Of the top 4-5 that surpassed BYU, only Oklahoma and Texas remain. We can schedule Oklahoma and Texas out of conference. See BYU's non-Big XII schedule for 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014, etc.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/8195/pac-10-ranks-fourth-in-the-nation-in-attendance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Here's another ESPN link showing Pac 10 attendance for 2009. Again, BYU matches up pretty well. Only USC dwarfs BYU. BYU looks to be pretty close with UCLA, Washington, Oregon, and Cal, outdoes the Arizona schools, and embarrasses Stanford, Oregon State, and Washington State.

YNot wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/24718/surveying-the-big-12-attendance-numbers



I found the above link on ESPN, showing average 2010 Home attendance for Big XII schools. Note that BYU would be in the top half of the Big XII...and Nebraska was included in the figures. I think BYU is doing okay.



Also, the ESPN and BYUtv deals have been EXTREMELY awesome for out-of-state BYU alumni and fans. I moved to Utah from Oregon a few years ago. The only games I could get on TV were if they were showcased on Versus. (ugh!) BYU's fans nation and word-wide can now watch the team...



As a side note, looking at the Big XII attendance stats....why do we want to join the Big XII? Of the top 4-5 that surpassed BYU, only Oklahoma and Texas remain. We can schedule Oklahoma and Texas out of conference. See BYU's non-Big XII schedule for 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014, etc.

Yeah - we can get a one and done or two for one or un-neutral site which is the point of this thread. And our attendance is pretty solid. Not Nebraska solid. But not bad. So if you want Kansas, or all those other teams with vacant stadiums due to being losing teams, to come we will do reasonably well but not great. You want Nebraska home and away - bigger stadium, fille:, and higher ticket prices might do it.



Most of our apathy, once you get past the excuses, is two bye weeks mixed around several weak opponents including ISU that was a virtual bye - all in a row, except TCU - which we lost.



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You can blame "low" attendance on quite possibly the worst November schedule in the country, mixed with 2 bye weeks in between games, mixed with games being started at 7 and 8 at night.



That doesn't exactly lend itself to: "Hey 10 year old son, let's go watch a game and freeze off your chance of passing on the family genes..."