Tulsaworld reveals OU conference align emails - BYU bashing.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/items/OU_emails.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



these include a few gems including a OU professor/ BYU alum who details all the reasons to avoid BYU at all costs.



There is also an email from SDSU Associate Athletic directory jenny Bramer

jenny THE STUPID Bramer wrote:
Is there anything that Jim or I can be doing to share the message about all San Diego State’s

advantages? Or for that matter sharing all the disadvantages of being in the conference with BYU!"

Not sure where this came from or why it's released, but we certainly have people out there who don't like us.

CougarClaw wrote:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/items/OU_emails.pdf



these include a few gems including a OU professor/ BYU alum who details all the reasons to avoid BYU at all costs.



There is also an email from SDSU Associate Athletic directory jenny Bramer

Is there anything that Jim or I can be doing to share the message about all San Diego State’s

advantages? Or for that matter sharing all the disadvantages of being in the conference with BYU!"

Not sure where this came from or why it's released, but we certainly have people out there who don't like us.

Can we say disaffected member of the church? As they say, people can leave the church, but they just can't leave it alone.

Exactly. There is no doubt from reading that email that Warren Metcalf is an ex-Mormon who reached a point in his life where he thought he understood the world and minority relations better than the Prophet.

Wow. I don't know this Metcalf dude, but I am guessing that he has an axe to grind against the Church.

Wow, hard to believe that guy really spent as much time at BYU as he claims.



2 year mission advantage argument? really? pretty lame



The belief that the Pac-X didn't want us because we're not a major research institution? or even the argument that research has anything to do with athletic conference alignment? ridiculous and outright false.



Saying that BYU doesn't have a lot of graduate programs because the mormon church doesn't want to promote competing beliefs or academic freedom? Obviously he's not aware of that we're top 10 in the country in grads who get PhDs. If the church doesn't want us getting a higher education, they're doing a crappy job of it.



He also said that BYU has never had a top 25 recruiting class. I thought Heap's class was top-25, maybe I'm wrong.

hawkwing wrote:
Exactly. There is no doubt from reading that email that Warren Metcalf is an ex-Mormon who reached a point in his life where he thought he understood the world and minority relations better than the Prophet.

Considering his area of expertise is the Mormons exterminating the native americans in Utah, you are probably right.

Wow. I can't believe this letter has been printed in public. What a bigot! I'll never cease to be amazed at those that go out of their way to push personal agenda above noting things as they really are. He twisted a lot of data.



Countdown begins until SL Trib has this letter noted on their paper....

What a scholar! He really brought some new and insightful ideas to the table. I would expect nothing less from a history professor. Does he have anything to say about TCU's football history? Reminds me of two of my sisters. It's funny how all these people sound the same, yet they think they are so unique and smart.

snoscythe wrote:

Exactly. There is no doubt from reading that email that Warren Metcalf is an ex-Mormon who reached a point in his life where he thought he understood the world and minority relations better than the Prophet.

Considering his area of expertise is the Mormons exterminating the native americans in Utah, you are probably right.

I laughed at this intro to his book:



http://books.google.com/books?id=8lvBQBOP3icC&pg=PR16&lpg=PR16&dq=%22Warren+Metcalf%22+mormons&source=bl&ots=JmZMXPBPuR&sig=wGABToupHFo-vfbBSyh7aPzQoXM&hl=en&ei=kkG4TtXfDenisQKdp_2NBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CHIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A central conundrum of this project has been the problem of describing the unfortunate effects of a system of religious practice without disparaging the religion itself. I found in Mormonism a cosmology that profoundly influenced the actions of key individuals and decisively affected the outcome. Readers may find my characterization of these beliefs unflattering in certain aspects. However, as a descendant of many generations of Mormons myself, and raised and acculturated in that church, I believe I have portrayed these doctrines accurately.



I have also relied on the opinions of colleagues who have a history of association with the Mormon Church. This is a delicate matter because neither practicing Mormons nor most non-Mormons are generally aware of the social dynamics described herein. Mormonism is a remarkably homogenous faith, and members have a particular lacuna for the extent to which their thoughts and actions are governed by the church…. I am particularly grateful, therefore, to have the opinions of friends who have spend time both in and out of this particular religious environment.

In other words--the only trustworthy authorities on Mormon theology are those who were Mormons, but have now left the church and are no longer burdened by that "lacuna" that hobbles every active Mormon. So, he wrote an "academic" book based on the theology of Mormonism from the point of view of disaffected Mormons, because they are the best/only source of true Mormon theology.

And yet - it is hard to find much wrong with accuracy of what he wrote. Oklahoma would have gone PAC if invited. I don't agree with his tone or word choice - FORCED to give Priesthood to African Americans for example. Could have explained that BYU does try to recruit African Americans to BYU and to convert them to the Church.



I don't agree with his inflammatory tone or conclusions about why BYU does not have broader post grad programs, but he has done a pretty good job of sweeping all of the dirt into one pile so that none will be missed.



Kind of surprised a certain Cal voting Prop didn't come up or MTN Meadow or Polygamy.



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tmoney35 wrote:
Wow, hard to believe that guy really spent as much time at BYU as he claims.



2 year mission advantage argument? really? pretty lame



The belief that the Pac-X didn't want us because we're not a major research institution? or even the argument that research has anything to do with athletic conference alignment? ridiculous and outright false.



Saying that BYU doesn't have a lot of graduate programs because the mormon church doesn't want to promote competing beliefs or academic freedom? Obviously he's not aware of that we're top 10 in the country in grads who get PhDs. If the church doesn't want us getting a higher education, they're doing a crappy job of it.



He also said that BYU has never had a top 25 recruiting class. I thought Heap's class was top-25, maybe I'm wrong.

Even with all the Heaps of Hype, it was only about 35th iirc.



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Since I am an alum of both BYU and OU, I decided to send an email to Mr. Castigilone and add my voice. I said among other things...As a proud alum of both OU and BYU I have to say nothing would make me more excited than closer ties between these two great University's. I think if anyone can attest to the quality and inclusiveness of the BYU football program it would be OU football team and staff because of personal experience. If you look beyond football there is no one near the Big 12 footprint that even comes close to the competitive teams that BYU fields in all sports.



I would love to have directed a rebuttal to Mr Metcalf's words but haters will always be there.



Go Cougs!



L Hatton

Louisville, KY

He sounds like a direct descendant of Prof. Charles Anton!

This guy is a douche. He's probably like half of my UVU professors that all hated BYU because they decided to quit paying their tithing or they did something to rock the boat and they got canned. Don't get me wrong I love UVU and my professors that I had, but there a lot and I mean A LOT of former Y professors that were dismissed and bitter. I'm sure he's just one of them. If Boren and others let that mans email sway them that much then they're stupid. As for the recruiting class crap, that stuff is overrated. How many times in the last 10 years have Clemson, FSU and others had top 25 recruiting classes and haven't finished with more than a 6-6 record. Hell look at Florida this year, yes this does lend some validity to his easy schedule point, but we have done fairly well against those "elite" recruiting classes. Not that I ever like to lend credit to Utah, but when Switzer was going off on the U before '08 Sugar Bowl, he was going on and on about recruiting and all of Bama's 4 and 5 star recruits and Utah let them have it. That recruiting class stuff is garbage, there are just as many 2 star high school recruits in the NFL as there are 4 star. Most of those 4 and 5 star guys have already peaked and the 2 and 3 star guys catch up to them in college.

I don't have any problem with Metcalf's analysis of our football team as it relates to our inability to beat elite teams. Fair enough. It doesn't really bother me because that's pretty much true of most programs, including about half of the Big XII quite often. I like our odds against what the Big XII calls "the forgotten five" schools on most years. (I did enjoy the "surprise a good team early in the season" comment, because it's patently IMPOSSIBLE to disprove. BYU plays ALL non-conference foes early in the season, a.k.a. the "good teams," and even the better MWC foes we've beaten were clearly "bad teams" as well.)



I also don't have a problem with his need to slip in some negative history of the church. That's his prerogative and he didn't really state anything that was untrue.



What pisses me off is that apparently, our old WAC/MWC foes hated us because our teams were nothing more than a proselytizing front. Where and when did we ever step over the lines of common decency during sporting events? Our players didn't do religious gestures after scoring points. Our fans didn't comb the bleachers handing out pass-along cards (at least not to my knowledge). Our ADs didn't require that "The Testaments of One Fold and One Shepherd" get played on the Jumbotron before kickoff. Did it piss other MWC fans off THAT much that they have to hear a prayer before a game at LES?



I like BYU generating interest in the church via football, but I've always understood it to be a more indirect thing, like "this team is filled with Mormons, and they play football. See, that's one not-weird thing they do." If you're talking explicit reference to religion and puff pieces during games concerning the religious-oriented good the players do off the field, I would argue that the University of Florida did more for the direct promotion of evangelical Christianity during the Tebow years than BYU has done for Mormonism recently.



Aside from that, this PDF is really not that illuminating. It's just an inbox full of suggestions from unqualified people. Some of the letters later on are just plain dumb in regards to the ideas and suggestions they're floating.

trueblue72 wrote:
As for the recruiting class crap, that stuff is overrated. How many times in the last 10 years have Clemson, FSU and others had top 25 recruiting classes and haven't finished with more than a 6-6 record. Hell look at Florida this year, yes this does lend some validity to his easy schedule point, but we have done fairly well against those "elite" recruiting classes. Not that I ever like to lend credit to Utah, but when Switzer was going off on the U before '08 Sugar Bowl, he was going on and on about recruiting and all of Bama's 4 and 5 star recruits and Utah let them have it. That recruiting class stuff is garbage, there are just as many 2 star high school recruits in the NFL as there are 4 star. Most of those 4 and 5 star guys have already peaked and the 2 and 3 star guys catch up to them in college.

The thing that gets me is when they make comparisons like this, they assume a level playing field. We've never had a top 25 recruiting class? Well that would be a feat indeed given that we're not allowed to play for a national championship and we have to either sell the BYU experience or get the BCS scraps. Let's have OU play all Conference USA teams, prohibit them from BCS access and see how awesome their recruiting classes become.



A better comparison would be how we stack up against Non-BCS schools and even how many BCS schools our recruiting classes have 'bested'.

snoscythe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
Exactly. There is no doubt from reading that email that Warren Metcalf is an ex-Mormon who reached a point in his life where he thought he understood the world and minority relations better than the Prophet.

Considering his area of expertise is the Mormons exterminating the native americans in Utah, you are probably right.

I laughed at this intro to his book:



http://books.google.com/books?id=8lvBQBOP3icC&pg=PR16&lpg=PR16&dq=%22Warren+Metcalf%22+mormons&source=bl&ots=JmZMXPBPuR&sig=wGABToupHFo-vfbBSyh7aPzQoXM&hl=en&ei=kkG4TtXfDenisQKdp_2NBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CHIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A central conundrum of this project has been the problem of describing the unfortunate effects of a system of religious practice without disparaging the religion itself. I found in Mormonism a cosmology that profoundly influenced the actions of key individuals and decisively affected the outcome. Readers may find my characterization of these beliefs unflattering in certain aspects. However, as a descendant of many generations of Mormons myself, and raised and acculturated in that church, I believe I have portrayed these doctrines accurately.



I have also relied on the opinions of colleagues who have a history of association with the Mormon Church. This is a delicate matter because neither practicing Mormons nor most non-Mormons are generally aware of the social dynamics described herein. Mormonism is a remarkably homogenous faith, and members have a particular lacuna for the extent to which their thoughts and actions are governed by the church…. I am particularly grateful, therefore, to have the opinions of friends who have spend time both in and out of this particular religious environment.

In other words--the only trustworthy authorities on Mormon theology are those who were Mormons, but have now left the church and are no longer burdened by that "lacuna" that hobbles every active Mormon. So, he wrote an "academic" book based on the theology of Mormonism from the point of view of disaffected Mormons, because they are the best/only source of true Mormon theology.

I can't wait to get on FARMS to see if there is a review of this masterpiece. It truly is astounding how anti-Mormon literature can be perpetually churned and re-packaged over the decades as being "new" and "exclusive." Anti-Mormon arguments have been addressed, debunked, and destroyed time and time again but the same old writings continue to print. It is truly remarkable.

edit: nevermind

I'm sure David Boren remembers Geoge W. McLaurin:



http://www.archives.gov/midatlantic/education/desegregation/oklahoma.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I don't bring up McLaurin to direct scrutiny away the LDS Church. But it's worth noting that even an enlightened, secular, liberal institution like OU has dirty laundry.



So let's not overreact. If Boren refused to associate with any university vulnerable to criticism on matters of race, he wouldn't be President of OU.

I thought "lacuna" is a bad word. :bug: Then I realized that it is nothing more than a blank space and so I decided maybe the dude is right on some other things too and so I thought more on his claim that we have destroyed native americans. That got my dander up until I realized that 4th and 18, and Beck to Harline, and Andrew George for the score did destroy a whole bunch of Utes! So maybe Sherlock is on to something!