Is the age of the drop-back quarterback over at BYU?

With Offensive lines at BYU, which over recent years have been highly touted but all too often underperform (yet again this year), not providing enough time or pocket;

With an OC who only dreams of being an NFL, play-action style but is more realistically much more adept at an Option style;

With Offensive schemes changing across football to the spread, spread option;

With faster, more aggressive DB's that we never get and great teams always have;

With WR's who are more talented than the majority of years in the last 25 years, but who can barely break free when pressed--and dont have enough time to get into their routes;

With a headcoach who favors blue-collar players--which will likely mean tougher, run-oriented, gritty guys like RN; etc, etc......

Is the age of a drop-back (immobile) quarterback at BYU over? Is this the age of a mobile QB?

could be. doman is obviosuly more comfortable with someone like nelson. taysom hill from what i have heard is nelson with a better arm.

Who was the last pure drop-back passer that really excelled at BYU?

I think Max Hall was a gritty, tough player who was a drop back passer...I think he did well at BYU and I think he would have us undefeated this year...well maybe not the TCU game...but I don't think BYU is done with the dropback passer, nor will they ever be. BYU will play with who they have.

Yes, for the short-term, but only time will tell in the long run.

Cougarpoke wrote:
I think Max Hall was a gritty, tough player who was a drop back passer...I think he did well at BYU and I think he would have us undefeated this year...well maybe not the TCU game...but I don't think BYU is done with the dropback passer, nor will they ever be. BYU will play with who they have.

Max Hall was pretty mobile and ran with a lot of toughness to be considered a pure drop back passer.

Max Hall was a pure drop back passer. To say he was mobile is quite the stretch IMHO. Yes he could move around the pocket, and yes he would lower his head when he ran, and yes he could take a hit...but he was not considered nor will he ever be considered a mobile QB. He was a drop back passer.

Not to be particular because you don't get an NFL Pro Football Hall of Fame QB all too often around here, but I want another Steve Young. Someone who can do about everything. Why not.



Honestly I have always loved the more gritty-run able QB that can do both.



I'm curious still as why the comment about our underperforming OL is true. Is it coaching or over-touted recruits? We've not horrible, but the word underperform always seems to be out there.

Cougarpoke wrote:
I think Max Hall was a gritty, tough player who was a drop back passer...I think he did well at BYU and I think he would have us undefeated this year...well maybe not the TCU game...but I don't think BYU is done with the dropback passer, nor will they ever be. BYU will play with who they have.

With max we would most definitely be undefeated this year.

It is clear that RN and Doman were anomalies at QB for BYU. The norm is drop back, even if they have elusive skills. BYU played them as drop back guys. Even in a shotgun formation. This needs to continue.

Bold Bib Predictions:



Bookmark them. Remind me in 2012.



Experience and continuity in coaches, scheme, and players - or the lack thereof, make a huge difference in Execution. BYU lives and dies by Execution - because we lack game breaking and game making athleticism at RB, WR, and DB - always do - will again in 2012.



Bronco will not fire any of the new coaches or any defensive coaches for 2012. IDK if Reynolds retires. I predict - not. Weber is on hot seat. He probably survives. This continuity will keep us from losing to weak teams and make us competitive in all of our games with one really big ? OL graduates some guys and it is not clear from observing reserves - who will step up. Unproven talent might - might not. Missions and returnees may factor in on OL.



The schedule will prove to be the undoing of 2012. Too many road games Vs good teams. We will not win all of those - maybe none.



It is gonna be another 9 or 10 win season barring QB injury - whether Heaps plays or not.



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EM_Puma wrote:




I'm curious still as why the comment about our underperforming OL is true. Is it coaching or over-touted recruits? We've not horrible, but the word underperform always seems to be out there.

I think it comes up because,



A. It seems like over the last few year the oline has had both game time and depth and is listed at the first of the year as a strength by the coachs.



B. Because of the way the coachs talk about the oline some people translate that into they should beable to put 200 yards of rushing on any team no matter who it is. And they should never and I do mean never give up a sack.



Sometimes IMO people expect to much and when those expectation are not met thats when you get people saying underperform.



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All you have to do is watch our line play, then go watch Bama's line, LSU's line, Wisconsin's line, Ok State line, OU line, etc. and you see our line is not awesome. And with the experience they have, they should be. But fast teams, like Texas, TCU, UCF and Utah game them massive troubles and made them look fat and slow, while rushing 4-5 guys. That is awful. You have numbers with a 4 man rush, and are equal on a 5 man rush, When BYU keeps a back in to block, that gives 6 blockers to handle 4 or 5, yet we got punked.



Now go watch Detmer beat Miami, and see how well our line played against an NFL caliber defense, NFL caliber front 4. Night and day.

Thanks Lawboy. I feel oddly vindicated, not that I was looking for that.

Where is Roger French these days? Did he pass away? Coach Weber is a great guy. I have chatted with him on three occasions. BUt I just do not see mean and nasty. John Tait comes to mind. Even Jason Scucanek (sp)--he was not all that talented, but he has some serious attitude. When was the last time you heard any of our lineman touted for their pancake blocks??

And so, may be the question ought to be modified to say will we ever be able to play merely a "drop-back passer." Every Dline gets to our qb--except our own, oh wait, that was happening in camp as well. And some poster warned us that our O vs the !'s on D looked average to bad. Well, this is why.

At any rate, I wonder if Munns would look as bad as Jake? And LArk would show some mobility and have a better chance to let plays develop and the arm to get it there.

This isnt a subtle RIley slam. Im repentant and grateful he has "saved" our butts and souls.

jonnylingo wrote:
could be. doman is obviosuly more comfortable with someone like nelson. taysom hill from what i have heard is nelson with a better arm.

It is way too early to say what Doman is more comfortable with.

Lawboy I would hope that no one says the Y's oline is anything more than average. But those teams you listed are also the best teams in the country. They would make almost every defensive front 5 look bad, they have scary talent in those programs that BYU doesnt have. Im not sure its fair to compare BYU'S oline to those teams. But it does suck that teams like Utah and TCU seem to look like all americans against BYU. Its not like those 2 teams are out recruiting BYU every year. There is no reason for the oline to struggle like they did this year against those 2 teams.



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Max may have been our last good drop-back passer, but I think that McMahon might have been our best pure drop-back passer. Personally, I think that as much as possible, for the rest of the season, give Lark back-up reps. He should get some time to play, in case he is better than Jake or Riley overall-minus experience. He's a junior, and he's only thrown a few passes total in his BYU career. That's giving the time and reps to the guys you know about, not the guys who should earn it for talent, development, experience, etc.



It also seems like they line up in pass-protection formation. A friend of my dad's said that they should line up rush formation. It would make the running game better, and shouldn't be too hard to fan out to protect for a pass.



I'm not sure I entirely agree. What if, like Fla St last year, the d-ends line up way outside? That gives the opposing defense a KVN Touchdown type play for free-or at least it's a turnover or a huge loss. You would have to have secondary blockers pick up the blitz.

I maintain that the biggest issue is weber and that's why we haven't seen the " true drop back qb" that we'd see in Jake. With much less talent in guys like lunchroom sanders and others Grimes got much better results and which allowed our guys more time to throw. I think we need a guy who will help our line get a nasty streak, even running qbs turn into more of a drop back passer with more time and a pocket to sit in. A la Michael vick and steve young.



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I'm surprised by some of the posts here. By "drop back passer" do you mean someone like Tom Brady?-- a stiff with great passing ability? BYU hasn't had a successful one of those since Giff Nelson. All great BYU QBs in the last 30ish years have had the ability to improvise on the run with decent escapability. Not Mike Vicks by any stretch but could escape and create something out of nothing. To me this is the main downside of Heaps..doesn't seem to be a part of his game. We don't seem to have the O line or athletes at WR or whatever to be a 3 step drop and throw kind of team.

This is an interesting question, one I have also wondered about. I think the college game has/is changed recently, the defenses are faster at every position, even at BYU. Lavell used to say all the time he doesn't pay attention to the 3,4,5 star recruits, that he'll do just as well with what he got--and he did (pretty much). But think that may no longer be the case, that we may have to get 5 star Olinemen to be really goo, and 5 star Dlinemen to be really good on defense.



Thus, that not being the case, the great equalizer (which the passing game used to be), is now the two threat QB, who can throw and run. QBs at Michigan, Nebraska, and others, just change the game. As Bronco says, you can't game plan against a QB who can pass and run.



We've seen how our receivers do get open when Riley scrambles, but didn't with Heaps--there's a reason for that.



Yes, you have to play with what you got, but my bet is BYU will begin recruiting dual threat QBs--starting today.