Need Some Help

Ok, so I have no idea why I don't like Riley Nelson. He's usually the type of guy I root for and want to succeed. I don't know what it is about him, but I don't like him. This bothers me. I haven't disliked a BYU QB like this since Kevin Feterik. Hopefully my fellow Cougar fans can help me find reasons to like him.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ok, so I have no idea why I don't like Riley Nelson. He's usually the type of guy I root for and want to succeed. I don't know what it is about him, but I don't like him. This bothers me. I haven't disliked a BYU QB like this since Kevin Feterik. Hopefully my fellow Cougar fans can help me find reasons to like him.

Cougar Corner's top ten reasons for liking Riley Nelson



10. Riley rhymes with smiley!



9. Hair is border honor code--and then he takes his helmet off and waves it like some slow motion model dude



8. He lowers his shoulder



7. He throws hail mary's, dead ducks, wobbling fades and gets knocked down and then does it again!



6. 6-pac



5. Wears humber 13



4. Put a dagger in USU



3. Can't think of one right off



2. Close to if not the leading rusher most games



1. High fives the ref baby!

Not sure why but #3 was hilarious. Thank you. I needed the laugh!!



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stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ok, so I have no idea why I don't like Riley Nelson. He's usually the type of guy I root for and want to succeed. I don't know what it is about him, but I don't like him. This bothers me. I haven't disliked a BYU QB like this since Kevin Feterik. Hopefully my fellow Cougar fans can help me find reasons to like him.

I see a pattern. Left-handed. Did you hate Steve Young?



Another pattern - running vs standing in the pocket and throwing 400 yard games - Did you hate Steve Young?





I can't remember if Feterik stood in the way of some phenom recruit that you wanted to have break all of McMahon and Detmer's records?



I think a lot of fans have held that against Riley until Jake flopped.



I think many fans view RIley as USU's leftovers. They were hard on Sark becasue he was a JC transfer - not a BYU guy through and through from the very beginning.



Any of these help?

BoiseBYU wrote:

Ok, so I have no idea why I don't like Riley Nelson. He's usually the type of guy I root for and want to succeed. I don't know what it is about him, but I don't like him. This bothers me. I haven't disliked a BYU QB like this since Kevin Feterik. Hopefully my fellow Cougar fans can help me find reasons to like him.

Cougar Corner's top ten reasons for liking Riley Nelson



10. Riley rhymes with smiley!



9. Hair is border honor code--and then he takes his helmet off and waves it like some slow motion model dude



8. He lowers his shoulder



7. He throws hail mary's, dead ducks, wobbling fades and gets knocked down and then does it again!



6. 6-pac



5. Wears humber 13



4. Put a dagger in USU



3. Can't think of one right off



2. Close to if not the leading rusher most games



1. High fives the ref baby!

3. He makes Bronco cry, which is like making Chuck Norris or Jimmer cry.



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I too have had a hard time converting to the church of Riley. I like having a mobile qb and I think he can pick apart most of the crappy teams on our crappy schedule, but I just don't see him as being the guy who can take us to the next level. I do think Jake was given too much too early, but I get the sneaking suspicion that Jake forced the coaches hand and said I play or I go elsewhere. I was the biggest Jake guy out there, but now I can see that it is important for a young guy to sit a year or two before he steps in and runs. I rewatched a game from Max Hall's soph season. He had red shirted and gone on a mission (not full two years), but had a level of maturity and toughness that really helped him get in with his teammates. Jake can get there, just needs some time. I think Riley will have a fine career and win some games, but his lame duck passes will cost us some too (see TCU).

Dear "Stuckin[a couple of ways], I could help you explore additional reasons--many of which I have mentioned ad nauseum over the last 15 months, but it would get ugly. And I have tried to turn the [Cougar] corner on my "divisive" and "mutinous" past.

So, you can take the positive/conversion approach that Boise is attempting and just "let go and let [Bronco]".

Or you could try Bib's approach, which is an attempt to answer your question exactly as you have asked AND which, while a good start by Bib, quite simply bares limited reliability and scope given he has always been on the Riley train :-). (That's a compliment Bib, mostly.)

So, if you want help with your true Riley-hater self, if you seek the fullest devotion of Riley- hating-ness, let me know, I am your guy. Otherwise, Im not going to foul up this forum with any more Riley-hater stuff.



It was once said by A. Toquerville (or was that BFranklin) of America: "Democracy is the worst form of government, but the best one that we have." Think about it and get back to me if you want to open the can of worms. :-)

Cougarpoke wrote:
I too have had a hard time converting to the church of Riley. I like having a mobile qb and I think he can pick apart most of the crappy teams on our crappy schedule, but I just don't see him as being the guy who can take us to the next level. I do think Jake was given too much too early, but I get the sneaking suspicion that Jake forced the coaches hand and said I play or I go elsewhere. I was the biggest Jake guy out there, but now I can see that it is important for a young guy to sit a year or two before he steps in and runs. I rewatched a game from Max Hall's soph season. He had red shirted and gone on a mission (not full two years), but had a level of maturity and toughness that really helped him get in with his teammates. Jake can get there, just needs some time. I think Riley will have a fine career and win some games, but his lame duck passes will cost us some too (see TCU).

We aren't going to the next level anytime soon, regardless of who is at QB, so might as well sit back and enjoy the Riley train.

He seems to me like a bit of a punk. But so did Max Hall and I ended up liking him because it translated to fiery (if a bit inconsistent) play on the field.

Riley needs a giant twirly mustache. Then you'd like him.

Riley does not fit into our preconceived notions of what a BYU QB should be physically. He is smaller with a weaker arm.



Add to it that he is now playing ahead of the anointed QB, and that makes it tougher for fans.



I think you are just mad that your own expectations for BYU football and for Jake Heaps have not been met this year, and it is easy to blame the QB.



I know that this has been my issue until recently. And I still struggle with it.

Lawboy wrote:
Riley does not fit into our preconceived notions of what a BYU QB should be physically. He is smaller with a weaker arm.



Add to it that he is now playing ahead of the anointed QB, and that makes it tougher for fans.



I think you are just mad that your own expectations for BYU football and for Jake Heaps have not been met this year, and it is easy to blame the QB.



I know that this has been my issue until recently. And I still struggle with it.

Lawboy has hit the nail on the head with the hammer. When I see Riley Nelson hatred and anger, this is where I infer the fan is coming from.

I think that the reason that Riley Nelson doesn't excite alot of fans is because of the HUGE upside that Heaps had at the beginning of the season. I for one was thinking that we would have a quarterback that would compete for a Heisman, an All American, that would get us into the BCS. I love Riley Nelson and I won't say that he can't be anything or do anything. He has exceeded my expectations so far and I hope he continues to exceed them, however, I don't EXPECT Riley Nelson to compete for a Heisman or be an All American. I EXPECTED that from Heaps at the beginning of this season. Maybe it was unfair of me to expect that, but I did. Going to Nelson seemed like a downgrade. I think that is also what is driving the calls for Lark and Munns. If they prove serviceable by the end of the year, maybe the hope for an awesome quarterback renews. It's hard to look at Nelson and say, "this quarterback can take us where we've never been before."



I think we should give credit where credit is due. Riley Nelson has saved this season. He's fun to watch. He fights every down. I don't think we have seen his peak yet. Until he peaks out, I think we should let him run with this team. I love watching him play. I love that he's having the time of his life. I hope that he has the ability to stay healthy through this and next season. I want to see what he can do. I think he is elevating the team. I now HOPE that Nelson can improve enough to BECOME the quarterback that moves this program forward.

rblack wrote:
I think that the reason that Riley Nelson doesn't excite alot of fans is because of the HUGE upside that Heaps had at the beginning of the season. I for one was thinking that we would have a quarterback that would compete for a Heisman, an All American, that would get us into the BCS. I love Riley Nelson and I won't say that he can't be anything or do anything. He has exceeded my expectations so far and I hope he continues to exceed them, however, I don't EXPECT Riley Nelson to compete for a Heisman or be an All American. I EXPECTED that from Heaps at the beginning of this season. Maybe it was unfair of me to expect that, but I did. Going to Nelson seemed like a downgrade. I think that is also what is driving the calls for Lark and Munns. If they prove serviceable by the end of the year, maybe the hope for an awesome quarterback renews. It's hard to look at Nelson and say, "this quarterback can take us where we've never been before."

Kind of like falling in love with a girl that you took out on one date and refused to call you afterwards. Stuck on the what-if.



"But she was so amazing..."

CougarClaw wrote:
Riley needs a giant twirly mustache. Then you'd like him.

He just needs a Swanson:



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/02/18/movies/18offerman/18offerman-blog480.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Here's a visual storyline.



Jake Heaps signed with BYU and played great to end last season. BYU fans thought they had this:



http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/h/heidi_klum-5355.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



Unfortunately, 4.5 games into the season, we found out we really had this:



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HXwMf_YakBQ/S7PCHAge39I/AAAAAAAADQs/RwJ6NY6ZrtY/s1600/Holy+Taco+-+the+butterface+test+1.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



So we had to cut bait and go with this:



http://hotmormons.net/images/Women/I%20Can't%20I'm%20Mormon.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



And that pisses some people off who can't get off the idea that maybe with some Proactiv and some dim lighting we might get back to this:



http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/h/heidi_klum-5355.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



And for those hoping for that, I can only say:



http://www.bestmotivationalposters.com/images/keep-your-chin-up-funny-motivational-poster.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



Any questions?

1 question



How do you keep your chin up when you don't have one.



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Lawboy wrote:
Add to it that he is now playing ahead of the anointed QB, and that makes it tougher for fans.



I think you are just mad that your own expectations for BYU football and for Jake Heaps have not been met this year, and it is easy to blame the QB.



I know that this has been my issue until recently. And I still struggle with it.

I am one that has experience a big adjustment with Riley Nelson. In addition to this post, I would include the following:



(1) I feel optimal Heaps will be much, MUCH better than optimal Nelson (no data for that Hawk, just qualitative projection). The question as to how to get the most of Heaps creates a complication for me in rooting for Nelson. As posted in other places, I think an argument can be made for making sure Heaps plays in every game form here on out...which is not happening.



(2) Seeing the team rally around Nelson seems to be more than him just making things happen. There is a paradigm or culture that is troubles me a little bit, and Nelson is becoming the icon of that culture. In most cases, it is good. But as a program, we HAVE to put ourselves in a spot to support optimizing talent as opposed to solely optimizing grit and tenure.



(3) I don't trust that Nelson will ever get over his stupid mistakes. This will not be a problem against weaker competition...but against good teams, his lack of arm strength and risky/stupidity will cost us. So, if what we get by investing into Nelson now is a 2012 of the same old thing...losing to good teams, beating bad teams...not sure I would use this playing time to reinforce that culture for that outcome. This reverts back to point 1...which is, I feel that playing Heaps is a better use of his eligibility in preparation to play at a higher level than by sitting.



I am with Talo from TBS. If Heaps transfers, it raises questions about this coaching staff's decisions and configuration of operation.



Unfortunately for me, Nelson kind of falls into that mess of feelings and thoughts. Its not really his fault...but this is a very strange situation.

pjmuli - if it helps, you and I agree with your #1.



I believe that Jake Heaps at his highest level will be hands down above and beyond what Riley Nelson can do for us.



Where we disagree on is how to get him to that optimal level. Losing to Utah State, San Jose State, Oregon State would have been a disaster to Jake Heaps confidence. I would have benched Heaps much earlier than Doman did, for his own sake.



I don't believe playing Jake Heaps the rest of the year would help him progress at all, so I'm willing to not do that. If he transfers because of that, I don't put that on the coaches, who are finally starting to manage the QB situation the right way. I put that on Heaps.



In the end, I root for the Brigham Young University Cougars, not the Jake Heap's Cougars or the Riley Nelson Cougars. A QB cannot come in and be the statistically worse QB to play since BYU invented the modern passing game. That doesn't help BYU and it doesn't help the QB.



Because like you don't think Nelson will ever over come his stupid mistakes, I don't think Jake Heaps will over come his mental block and fear of being hit in live games, and I'm not willing to sacrifice 3 years of his eligibility to have 1 good year.

hawkwing wrote:
pjmuli - if it helps, you and I agree with your #1.



I believe that Jake Heaps at his highest level will be hands down above and beyond what Riley Nelson can do for us.



Where we disagree on is how to get him to that optimal level. Losing to Utah State, San Jose State, Oregon State would have been a disaster to Jake Heaps confidence. I would have benched Heaps much earlier than Doman did, for his own sake.



I don't believe playing Jake Heaps the rest of the year would help him progress at all, so I'm willing to not do that. If he transfers because of that, I don't put that on the coaches, who are finally starting to manage the QB situation the right way. I put that on Heaps.



In the end, I root for the Brigham Young University Cougars, not the Jake Heap's Cougars or the Riley Nelson Cougars. A QB cannot come in and be the statistically worse QB to play since BYU invented the modern passing game. That doesn't help BYU and it doesn't help the QB.



Because like you don't think Nelson will ever over come his stupid mistakes, I don't think Jake Heaps will over come his mental block and fear of being hit in live games, and I'm not willing to sacrifice 3 years of his eligibility to have 1 good year.

Great post my friend. I actually think that both of us agree about the best way to manage young quarterbacks, the point of departure is probably how we would respond in this specific situation. I think your argument is sensible...I would just make a different decision. Even if he is not the man right now, I probably would give him a meaningful series or two in every game. If he progresses in those opportunities, I would begin to phase Riley out. I acknowledge that runs contrary to everything the program seems to embrace.



For clarification, I am a BYU fan moreso than a fan of specific player. However, that is precisely what fuels my feelings about the Nelson situation...because my sense is that I think BYU gets further ahead doing it a different way.



There have been times when I the intensity of my interest or support has been tempered. The Crowton years were tough...not because we were losing, but because we were grooming losing.