Thoughts on BYU/Riley Nelson

It looks like my take on Riley Nelson's performance in the BYU-TCU game was a little different from the majority view here. Here is what I took away from Saturday night:



1) BYU played TCU much tougher this year than they have any of the past 3 years. Take away the first 5 minutes of play, and BYU played them even. Overall, I wasn't disappointed by the loss, I was actually encouraged that we were able to move the ball so well against TCU.

2) Much has been said about how TCU this year isn't playing at the same level they have the past several years. I think this talk is based in part by the two losses TCU took early in the season. Those were close losses, and that young TCU team has steadily improved. I'm not sure they were that much different talent-wise from the TCU teams we've seen in the past.

3) I'm surprised so many people are trashing Riley Nelson's play, particularly with regards to turnovers. My take is that the only reason BYU was even in the game was because of Riley Nelson's energy level, never-say-die attitude, and ability to run the ball. He plays a high risk/high reward game. Overall, I'd say it's pretty effective, but you've got to be willing to take the bad with the good.

4) I think I had underestimated the importance of having the quarterback be the team leader--I think Riley has got that, and I think he's our best man for 2012.



Just my two cents.

Rico wrote:
It looks like my take on Riley Nelson's performance in the BYU-TCU game was a little different from the majority view here. Here is what I took away from Saturday night:



1) BYU played TCU much tougher this year than they have any of the past 3 years. Take away the first 5 minutes of play, and BYU played them even. Overall, I wasn't disappointed by the loss, I was actually encouraged that we were able to move the ball so well against TCU.

2) Much has been said about how TCU this year isn't playing at the same level they have the past several years. I think this talk is based in part by the two losses TCU took early in the season. Those were close losses, and that young TCU team has steadily improved. I'm not sure they were that much different talent-wise from the TCU teams we've seen in the past.

3) I'm surprised so many people are trashing Riley Nelson's play, particularly with regards to turnovers. My take is that the only reason BYU was even in the game was because of Riley Nelson's energy level, never-say-die attitude, and ability to run the ball. He plays a high risk/high reward game. Overall, I'd say it's pretty effective, but you've got to be willing to take the bad with the good.

4) I think I had underestimated the importance of having the quarterback be the team leader--I think Riley has got that, and I think he's our best man for 2012.



Just my two cents.

If anyone should know QB stuff, it is Uncle Rico, no? Seriously, well stated. I saw/see things the same way.

I had a cat named Rico!!! Anyway, i think that you are correct for the most part. With your fourth point I think you've hit the nail on the head. When I played in high school and college i had two completely different styles of QB, one that took charge in the huddle and one that just called the play. The QB who I played with in college wasn't as gifted physically as the QB I played with in HS, but he'd get the huddle together and if guys were talking he'd tell the to shut up get the play called and we'd get going. The QB I played with in HS went on to play college ball and he didn't last long because he had very little leadership. As a I played with this guy for 3 years never once did he bring a fire into the huddle or instill confidence in us players as leaders are supposed to do. Neither team was spectacular but we followed the college QB a lot more and respected what he said. The QB has to lead the team and that is that!

Sub-par performance against TCU. Not just Riley, but the team as a whole.

Rico wrote:

3) I'm surprised so many people are trashing Riley Nelson's play, particularly with regards to turnovers. My take is that the only reason BYU was even in the game was because of Riley Nelson's energy level, never-say-die attitude, and ability to run the ball. He plays a high risk/high reward game. Overall, I'd say it's pretty effective, but you've got to be willing to take the bad with the good.

Agreed!

1) The tipped ball wasn't his fault

2) The longish throw to Hoffman was slightly underthrown but not a poor decision and was just a ridiculous play by the DB.



What do you people expect? I'm no Riley apologist and I don't necessarily think he's going to take us to the promised land, but I think half of you are absolutely crazy blaming the QB for some of this stuff. Get over yourselves...crap happens. At least we can move the ball up and down the field.

runbyu1 wrote:

3) I'm surprised so many people are trashing Riley Nelson's play, particularly with regards to turnovers. My take is that the only reason BYU was even in the game was because of Riley Nelson's energy level, never-say-die attitude, and ability to run the ball. He plays a high risk/high reward game. Overall, I'd say it's pretty effective, but you've got to be willing to take the bad with the good.

Agreed!

1) The tipped ball wasn't his fault

2) The longish throw to Hoffman was slightly underthrown but not a poor decision and was just a ridiculous play by the DB.



What do you people expect? I'm no Riley apologist and I don't necessarily think he's going to take us to the promised land, but I think half of you are absolutely crazy blaming the QB for some of this stuff. Get over yourselves...crap happens. At least we can move the ball up and down the field.

tipped ball was his fault. should not have been thrown. he was being tackled when he threw it.

runbyu1 wrote:


1) The tipped ball wasn't his fault

2) The longish throw to Hoffman was slightly underthrown but not a poor decision and was just a ridiculous play by the DB.

The tipped ball was his fault. It was a terrible decision to throw up a 50/50 ball in the red zone. Horrible. he was getting hit as he threw it so it had no zip on it and floated. Bad decision.



As to the other pick, the only reason the safety was able to get there in time was because of lack of velocity on the ball. If the QB who threw it had a strong arm, the safety never makes it in time. Yeah, the safety made a great play, BUT the ball was underthrown and behind the receiver and lacked zip.



Both those fall on Riley. But neither were as bad as that lateral pass. That was simply horrendous.

:roll: That's right jonnylingo and lawboy, I forgot that it's impossible to make a play when you might be getting tackled. Let's discredit the Beck to Harline throw because beck was also getting tackled as he threw it. And if the receiver wasn't getting blatantly held that's a ball that's gets a TD 95% of the time. I dare ya to tell me otherwise. The ball was right where it should have been, and were it not for uncalled PI, that's a TD.



right at the 2:00 minute mark of this highlight reel.



http://www.usatoday.com/video/news/highlights-byu-at-tcu/1248530439001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The pick that was called back was also a horrible pass. When he threw that lateral thingy (not even going to call it a pass) it appeared that he got up and screamed at Holt (?) for not getting on the ball. If that was the case, I can't believe he had the audacity to get mad at someone else after that play. I honestly threw up in my mouth when he let that lateral thingy go!



This following comment isn't towards Nelson or Heaps. This is towards Doman, IF I SEE ONE MORE OUT ROUTE I AM GOING TO GO UP TO THE COACHES BOOTH AND KILL HIM WITH MY BARE HANDS!!!! My HELL we throw so many of them and the route combination's should be in such a manner that force the DB to stay in his zone if he is in zone or we should throw in a few more out and ups to keep them honest when they are in man so they just can't jump the out route. SJSU was completely inferior to TCU, but on that TD pass to MJ, it was an out and up and that is why MJ was able to get behind the defender, he was guessing the out route. Or if we are going to continue throwing it then put Jake in to throw it, so at least there will be zip on the ball or it will be overthrown so no one can get to it!!!

Lawboy wrote:

1) The tipped ball wasn't his fault

2) The longish throw to Hoffman was slightly underthrown but not a poor decision and was just a ridiculous play by the DB.

The tipped ball was his fault. It was a terrible decision to throw up a 50/50 ball in the red zone. Horrible. he was getting hit as he threw it so it had no zip on it and floated. Bad decision.



As to the other pick, the only reason the safety was able to get there in time was because of lack of velocity on the ball. If the QB who threw it had a strong arm, the safety never makes it in time. Yeah, the safety made a great play, BUT the ball was underthrown and behind the receiver and lacked zip.



Both those fall on Riley. But neither were as bad as that lateral pass. That was simply

horrendous.

The tip reminded me of the one that won the USU game. Want it back? It can also be risky to try to pull the ball down when being tackled.



PI could have been called on the tip. USU bounced our way - this one did not.



Other one - most DBS are not going to pick that one. Even the tip took coordination of a great athlete to stay in bounds.



The lateral - receiver failed to realize it was live until too late. Inexperience.



In hindsight - I would like those three all back if we could not give up any of the several that worked.



Bottom line - not enough TDs to offset Riley's turnovers vs TCU.

It was fun, however to have a QB overcome as much as he did to give us a chance to win.



Can't wait till the next game.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

trueblue72 wrote:
The pick that was called back was also a horrible pass. When he threw that lateral thingy (not even going to call it a pass) it appeared that he got up and screamed at Holt (?) for not getting on the ball. If that was the case, I can't believe he had the audacity to get mad at someone else after that play. I honestly threw up in my mouth when he let that lateral thingy go!

He was right to yell at Holt. Holt should have jumped on that ball just in case it was a lateral. There were two bone head mistakes on that play - both of which are fixable.



Hopefully, when Riley came off the field a coach yelled at him for trying to throw the ball when wrapped up by two defensive linemen.

declocoug wrote:
:roll: That's right jonnylingo and lawboy, I forgot that it's impossible to make a play when you might be getting tackled. Let's discredit the Beck to Harline throw because beck was also getting tackled as he threw it. And if the receiver wasn't getting blatantly held that's a ball that's gets a TD 95% of the time. I dare ya to tell me otherwise. The ball was right where it should have been, and were it not for uncalled PI, that's a TD.



right at the 2:00 minute mark of this highlight reel.



http://www.usatoday.com/video/news/highlights-byu-at-tcu/1248530439001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are you kidding? I hope you are. How many times has riley heaved the ball in the air while he is being tackled. it is stupid. don't even try and argue otherwise. Beck threw it before he got tackled, not as he was being dragged down.



and more importantly your example is completely different. Time was up with beck. There was no other option. in that situation if you are getting tackled THROW IT! with nelson is was 1ST down on tcu's 12 yard line. Is it worth it? I have a hard time believing that you can even argue with the wisdom of hucking the ball in the air while you are being pulled down by a tackler. i am not even going to debate this point with you. your crazy :crazy:

SpiffCoug wrote:

The pick that was called back was also a horrible pass. When he threw that lateral thingy (not even going to call it a pass) it appeared that he got up and screamed at Holt (?) for not getting on the ball. If that was the case, I can't believe he had the audacity to get mad at someone else after that play. I honestly threw up in my mouth when he let that lateral thingy go!

He was right to yell at Holt. Holt should have jumped on that ball just in case it was a lateral. There were two bone head mistakes on that play - both of which are fixable.



Hopefully, when Riley came off the field a coach yelled at him for trying to throw the ball when wrapped up by two defensive linemen.

Holt was trying to catch it and fell in the process iirc, it wasn't like holt was standing there watching someone else get it. RN had no right to yell at holt. Doing crap like that will lose your teammates respect faster than just about anything else.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

BlueIsBetter wrote:
The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

So many things wrong in this post.

hawkwing wrote:

The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

So many things wrong in this post.

So name them. I'll start, it was 2nd down. Others have mentioned it was first. So i will correct that.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

So many things wrong in this post.

So name them.

1. It was PI, as anyone not rooting for Riley to fail would easily identify.



2. It is PI to tackle/hold a receiver before the ball gets there, as was the case with that pass.



3. I've never seen Riley Nelson throw a pass 11 feet over the head of his receiver, maybe you're thinking back to Jake Heaps? After all, we did see a number of those.



4. It's wise to throw a ball high when you have a 6'5 WR. That way the WR can go up and get it, or be held and get a PI called. Sadly, the correct call was not made in that instance.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

If it was 11 feet high, how did TCU get a finger on it?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

I am not rooting for Riley to fail, so you are wrong there. Also, there are others on this very board that aren't sure it was PI. So much for sweeping generalities.



The receiver was neither getting tackled, nor getting held before the ball got there. Slow mo can help you there. The moment of impact came just after. Also, the receiver was actually creating some of the contact as he was falling into the db.



If it was heaps, or my wife throwing the pass I would say the same thing.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
The pass in the endzone was a stupid pass to throw on first down, fading away and getting tackled. Also, it WAS NOT PI.



It's not PI to tackle receiver the second the ball goes hits his hand.



Also, maybe if the 6'5 reciever didn't have to go 11 feet into the air he would have caught it with a receiver on him.



But Riley never ever throws balls high, right?

But it did touch the BYU's players hands (despite being held down which is a PI) so that interception is on the receiver, right Heaps' apologists? :)