Why the Free Pass / Teflon Touch for Riley?

I just wonder why there is a double standard with Riley. He may try hard, but makes mistakes I consider just as bad or worse than Jake made. He is not the QB of the future either. He will win against the easy teams, but will struggle against the big boys.

slip, slip, slip

mgdhunter wrote:
I consider

Your opinion just isn't shared, that's all. Just because people consider things differently doesn't mean they have a double standard, it just means they have a different opinion as to the causes and significance of his mistakes.

mgdhunter wrote:
I just wonder why there is a double standard with Riley. He may try hard, but makes mistakes I consider just as bad or worse than Jake made. He is not the QB of the future either. He will win against the easy teams, but will struggle against the big boys.

Because when he is on the field behind center, the offense moves down the field and scores. Riley nelson ran the offense against a good TCU defense better then anyone since John Beck in 2006. Plus, we had no (and I mean NONE) 3 and outs up until about mid way through the game against TCU. I would take that every day and twice on sunday then putting a guy back there that can't convert on 3rd down. Mistakes happen, I can live with that. What I can't live with is someone who doesn't take chances to the point that we get three and outs against teams like utah state. And may I remind you that if it wasn't for Riley Nelson, we would have lost to utah state 2 years in a row. :blush:

You said it "his mistakes" and he owns them. I do believe there is a double standard, and hope the coaching staff and team can fix it. I don't dislike Riley, and I don't dislike Jake, but I do believe one is held to a different standard. Equality is not very strong with the prevailing culture.

Jake got a free pass for the first few games as well. There has been plenty of criticism of Riley after the TCU game. He certainly hasn't gotten a free pass. No one has said he played well. No one has said he didn't make mistakes. Your impression of a double standard is simply incorrect.



Riley was poor. He made plays that helped us get back in a game and he made plays that prevented us from coming all the way back. He wasn't the sole reason for the loss. But he needs to play better. Even if the other mistakes had been made (punting issues) if Riley had played better (two red zoner turnovers) and if he had eliminated his own errors, BYU could likely have won.



He needs to pick up his game. A 111 PER isn't acceptable and well below the 136 standard.



There is no double standard. The standard is a 136 PER. I think one game below it isn't a cause for concern. Five straight and 15 out of 19 below the standard is.



Now if Riley comes out against Idaho and is well below 136, then we need to start thinking about maybe being concerned. If he goes two games (Idaho & New Mexico St) well below the standard, then we need to be concerned and be ready to make a possible change against Hawaii if he again fails to reach the standard.



There is no double standard.

mgdhunter wrote:
You said it "his mistakes" and he owns them. I do believe there is a double standard, and hope the coaching staff and team can fix it. I don't dislike Riley, and I don't dislike Jake, but I do believe one is held to a different standard. Equality is not very strong with the prevailing culture.

Riley's would be hailed the hero for beating TCU this week if our punter had executed his assignment the way it was supposed to be done (meaning he caught the snap). Riley Nelson was the reason we had a chance in that game, not the reason we lost it. Our special teams was the reason we lost the game. You can't spot bad teams 21 points and win let alone a well coached team like TCU. My irritation this week is everyone who was bitter that Riley is a better QB then Heaps was waiting for just an opportunity like this one and is now piling on about how bad he is. If Heaps had done what Riley did on Friday and we had lost because of special teams, everyone would be gushing over how well he played and if it hadn't been for special teams......

You don't have to remind me of anything. I watched all the games, and I see things that concern me. I am not defending any one person, because I believe the team has issues. We all may have favorites, but that does not translate into wins for us. Just concerned about stupid mistakes that are made team wide, and the "QB's" are no exception.

Are you kidding me? Double standard? Jake was given every chance to succeed, and rightly so in my book. I hope and think he will continue to be given chances. Riley screws up on some plays (that have NOT been overlooked by fans or coaches) and somehow there's a double standard? I don't see it at all.

It should be pointed out that BYU's offense turned the ball over three times (two Nelson interceptions and one Nelson fumble). It should also be pointed out that TCU only scored three points off of those turnovers.

SpiffCoug wrote:
It should be pointed out that BYU's offense turned the ball over three times (two Nelson interceptions and one Nelson fumble). It should also be pointed out that TCU only scored three points off of those turnovers.

And they scored 21 points off of the punt mistakes. One of the newspapers pointed out that there was another short punt that TCU had a long return on that they also scored off of 28 points spotted to TCU by special teams. The loss was not Riley Nelson's fault, it was lost on special teams.



EDIT: they wouldn't have gotten the 3 points if it wasn't for a VERY poor targeting call on Uale who was looking at and reaching for the ball when the collision was made.

mgdhunter wrote:
I just wonder why there is a double standard with Riley. He may try hard, but makes mistakes I consider just as bad or worse than Jake made. He is not the QB of the future either. He will win against the easy teams, but will struggle against the big boys.

There is no double standard. Nelson moves the football. Heaps does not. Heaps struggles to hit his receivers anywhere on the field, Nelson actually makes some good plays. Nelson plays like he wants to win, Heaps plays like he doesn't want to get hurt. Nelson stays in the pocket and waits for the play to develop, Heaps throws to his first receiver whether he's open or not. Nelson is fun to watch, watching Heaps is like going to the dentist without pain killer. I will tolerate a player making a mistake while trying to make something happen. Heaps was making mistakes that were due to immaturity, inaccuracy and bad decision making. BYU was playing from behind all game long against TCU. Nelson tried to take the team on his back and win a game. He didn't quite make it. Heaps is probably the quarterback of the future. Nelson is the quarterback of now til the end of 2012.

Selective vision is what we all have. I am not trying to be the Jake vs. Riley, just pointing out there were some very poor decisions on Rileys part, and no one calling for his head like they were Jakes. I watch the same game everyone else watches, and I see problems that affected both Quarterbacks (OL not doing a good job). I believe our record would be very similar no matter who started the year as the QB.

Mgdhunter, I understand what you are saying and I somewhat feel the same way. But as much as I'd like to put all the blame on Riley (Let's face it, I still like Heaps and think he will pull through it),we cannot put all the blame on him. He has played well and lead us to victories, you can't argue that and thus a "free pass" has been given to him. I personally feel all the punt issues were what caused the loss, I originally felt that it was Riley's fault entirely, but his two bonheaded plays were in an attempt to make something happen, he needs to learn to eat it sometimes. Every QB has a bad game and makes mistakes, but when he comes back out fighting ready to go to battle again and starts taking his team down the field and puts them in scoring position, is why Riley get's the "free pass". Like I said before I still believe in Heaps and I think against the competition and the finding of the running game that we've had the last 4 games I think Jake would have played great. But Riley got a chance and thrived, and when a QB gives you a chance to win mistakes are tolerated. When you don't give the team much of chance they aren't tolerated at all.

SpiffCoug wrote:
It should be pointed out that BYU's offense turned the ball over three times (two Nelson interceptions and one Nelson fumble). It should also be pointed out that TCU only scored three points off of those turnovers.

And how many points did BYU fail to score because of those same turnovers? 6? 10? 14? Never will know, but it most definitely hurt the team.

mgdhunter wrote:
Selective vision is what we all have. I am not trying to be the Jake vs. Riley, just pointing out there were some very poor decisions on Rileys part, and no one calling for his head like they were Jakes. I watch the same game everyone else watches, and I see problems that affected both Quarterbacks (OL not doing a good job). I believe our record would be very similar no matter who started the year as the QB.

:

False. Byu would not have the same record. You keep forgetting about USU.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
It should be pointed out that BYU's offense turned the ball over three times (two Nelson interceptions and one Nelson fumble). It should also be pointed out that TCU only scored three points off of those turnovers.

You act like that is positive. The reason they only scored three off of his turnovers is because to other two were on the 12 and 20 yard line. Riley left 14 points on the board. I can't get over those two boneheaded plays. If I remember correctly the first one was on the 12 yard line and it was first down. he is being thrown to the ground and decides to huck the ball into the air. why does he always do that!!! it is such an easy problem to avoid yet he does it time and time again.



riley didn't lose us that game per se, but he didn't win it for us. tcu just didn't look good. we shot ourselves in the foot..... again.



it is true, that we still win despite riley's bone head mistake if our special teams didn't make those incredibly costly mistakes. but even with them, riley had the game won if he just doesn't throw the ball while he is being tackled.



i am sure we would have scored a touchdown if not two if those two turnovers didn't happen. very likely that we would have had at least 10.



I am just so unhappy with our qb situation right now. heaps and riley are mediocre.

declocoug wrote:

Selective vision is what we all have. I am not trying to be the Jake vs. Riley, just pointing out there were some very poor decisions on Rileys part, and no one calling for his head like they were Jakes. I watch the same game everyone else watches, and I see problems that affected both Quarterbacks (OL not doing a good job). I believe our record would be very similar no matter who started the year as the QB.

:

False. Byu would not have the same record. You keep forgetting about USU.



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And SJSU, and OSU. did you see what Heaps looked like against ISU, one of the worst teams in all of college football? I don't know what his problem is this year but he just isn't playing well at all and we would not have won with him as the starter. I think the ISU game would have been close with him in there.

I'm not forgetting the USU game at all. If Riley had started that game, he may have won, and he may not have. USU coach even said they had not prepared for Riley, if they had, would BYU still win? That can be debated all day long. I see a difference in accountability across the whole team. Some get a pass, some don't. I love BYU football, and I see a divided team, and that will affect all. I think a lot of the blame lies on the coaching staff to. They are going through some growth pains with new coaches/staff, and it shows.

And as for Heaps against ISU. He was doing what they told him to do, no more, no less. He didn't have a chance to anything great. He was just there to take time off of the clock. And the INT was a great play by the defense. Again, the debate will rage on.