Archived Topic

A day later, I blame coaching for this loss

by Lawboy · 10/29/2011

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L
Lawboy
Coming into the 2011 season, the coaches talked about ahead of schedule this team was in terms of preparation. That has proven to be a major miscalculation. This team was not ready, and is still making some of the same mistakes in game 9 that it did early. We look sloppy, not sharp. This is a coaching issue.



Many times over hte years, many of us have talked about how BYU does not use it's full allotment of practice time. Not talking days, I am talking hours used in the day. Scrimmages ar shorter, as are practices. Bronco has stated that he does this to keep the team from injry, but it is clear that it is also keeping us from being sharp in the biggest games. We beat up on weak sisters, but in games vs equal caliber teams, or in games where we need t play up, we typically do not.



First off, the special teams mistakes were unacceptbale. We come out in weird splits at the line and just let TCU run free up the middle on us, and they got pressure all night long. THe first punt error was on the snapper and blocker. THE snap was to the right, and the blocker filled his lane too quickly and deflected the punt/ This should NEVER happen. The next poor punt was again on hte formation because Stephenson had t rush it to get it off due to pressure. Of course he basically shanked it. LAst one was totally on Stephenseon. But, TCU had set the tone of pressure and it was clear he was rushing things. I give Coach Howell a D- for his punt formations last night. Show me and NFL team that lines up lie he had us. there is a reason for it. You do not just let speed run at you up the middle.



The defense and secondary play once again was an issue. And who coaches the secondary? Coach Howell does. I am seeing a common link here. His units looked poor last night. They look poorly coached, not ready to handle when a team floods a deep zone. Travis Uale continues to blow his two deep assignments and is easily confused when teams attack his zone area with bodies. Been a problem all year and should have improved by now. EAson was better. Hadley/Sampson were solid. Sorensen was spotty. OUr secondary needs better coaching, plain and simple. And Coach Howell's units were not sharp.



Next, our O-line looks awful against fast, physical front 7's. They looked fat and slow last night. Riley got sacked like 6 times, and had pressure all game long. His ability to use his legs saved us all night long. OUr blocking schemes just stunk, the line missed many blocks, especially when TCU brought pressure. We were overmatched, and I am tired of our Oline looking so poor against the better teams. They need to play better. I saw Gurney claiming our Oline played good, but I disagree. They got outmatched on the outsides. And Coach Weber had another horrible night last night.



As to RIley NElson, dude needs to learn to take care of hte ball better. 3 turnovers himself, and all 3 on horrendous mental decisions. I get that he wants to avoid a sack--I should say another sack. It is clear why the oline loves him because he bails them out so often. BUt RIley needs to learn to eat it, or throw it away quicker. I do not recall RIley throwing a pass away all night. HE has to try to make a play, even when he shouldn't. HE needs to learn to throw it away sooner. Especially on 1st downs. His 2 BZ turnovers were both 1st down plays, and that is totally unacceptable. Take he sack even, you still have more downs. HAd they been 4th downs, I could live with it, but not on 1st down. Never.



After last night, clear to see where our coaching is weakest--Oline and secondary/special teams/QB coach. Has been that way all year. The fact we still struggle in those areas 9 games in tells me we either lack players in those areas, our coaching stinks in those areas, or we have scheme issues. I blame coaching and scheme the most.
S
Schmoe
Yeah, the coaches should have told Riley that he's not supposed to throw late over the middle (oh wait, he's heard that since middle school) and they should have told other Riley not to shank punts (oh wait...).
S
snoscythe
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?
Y
Y 4 Ever
snoscythe wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



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B
BigCougsFan
It feels like every game we lose... It's because we were out coached. I was actually impressed with how Doman ran the offense. Our hurry up offense was killing TCU's defense. They were getting injured, out of place, etc... I praise Doman for this game.



If we use our hurry up offense. There isn't a team in the nation who has a defense that would last a whole game with us ESPECIALLY if Patterson's defense couldn't AND he has had the best defense the past 5 years. We need to do that every game.



I did not like how we ended the first half. We should have had some points going into halftime.



Our players didn't execute and either did our coaches.
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NebraskaCoug
I actually agree with Lawboy and Sno on this. I was actually very encouraged by most of what I saw at the game. After the game we said "good game" to some very polite TCU fans who clearly were grateful their team hung in there and won. They also expressed that they hope BYU can join the Big 12, because they have really felt like a good rivalry has developed, albeit one-sided recently.



I agree with Lawboy in that there do seem to be consistent underperformance by the offensive line and special teams & the secondary. From my perspective, Riley's turnovers were momentum killers but he also created and maintained momentum with his first play. I'm no expert, but it appears to me that the problem with his "arm strength" on a lot of these plays is more footwork and getting appropriately set to throw. He doesn't have a strong enough arm to overcome throwing off his back foot or to jump and throw or to throw on the run without being set. As to momentum killers, I think some poor calls at critical times by the officials did just as much to kill momentum. I have thought several times this year that next to scheduling, the hardest thing about independence is having to settle for the opponents' conferences' referees. It is definitely a disadvantage to have all of the referees employed by your opponents indirectly. No one is truly unbiased.



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NebraskaCoug
I am posting on a phone, and Riley's "first" play was supposed to be "gutsy," but it got autocorrected.



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NebraskaCoug
I agree with BigCougsFan too. I don't know why we didn't go back to the hurry-up offense more. Especially at the end of the game. They had no answer for the hurry-up. And especially with Riley's ability to improvise, I think we need to play like the Sooners of recent years and go hurry-up all game.



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B
Brayden Green
NebraskaCoug wrote:
I agree with BigCougsFan too. I don't know why we didn't go back to the hurry-up offense more. Especially at the end of the game. They had no answer for the hurry-up. And especially with Riley's ability to improvise, I think we need to play like the Sooners of recent years and go hurry-up all game.



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Because in a hurry up, we are hurrying up. Sure it keeps the defense off balance, and without subbing, but we don't sub either.



Which is fine if you are handing the ball off and throwing, but when your qb is the one running and taking big shots because he refuses to slide, that is a lot of abuse. Riley looked like those hits were starting to affect him earlier on. He even cringed on a few hits, and wasn't motoring his legs any more.



I think it was a good call to go away from the hurry up, though I do wish we would have gone back to it later in the game. I wonder if Riley's stamina factored into going back to it, or not.
B
BigCougsFan
BlueIsBetter wrote:
I agree with BigCougsFan too. I don't know why we didn't go back to the hurry-up offense more. Especially at the end of the game. They had no answer for the hurry-up. And especially with Riley's ability to improvise, I think we need to play like the Sooners of recent years and go hurry-up all game.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Because in a hurry up, we are hurrying up. Sure it keeps the defense off balance, and without subbing, but we don't sub either.



Which is fine if you are handing the ball off and throwing, but when your qb is the one running and taking big shots because he refuses to slide, that is a lot of abuse. Riley looked like those hits were starting to affect him earlier on. He even cringed on a few hits, and wasn't motoring his legs any more.



I think it was a good call to go away from the hurry up, though I do wish we would have gone back to it later in the game. I wonder if Riley's stamina factored into going back to it, or not.


Riley needs to slide more, to conserve himself for the whole game. He's going 100% all the time, which is great. But in doing so, he doesn't last the whole game. If we are coached and practiced to run the hurry up. We would be able to sub.



There's no answer for the hurry up. Especially with how Riley plays. This is better for him, instead of sitting in the pocket.
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S
SpiffCoug
Sliding is something the coaches need to speak to Riley about. He doesn't need to slide every time he runs. But it's something he should do more of when runs in the middle of the field.
S
Schmoe
Y 4 Ever wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.
B
BigCougsFan
Schmoe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.


We were out coached as well, it went back and forth.
Y
Y 4 Ever
Schmoe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.


You cannot be serious.
S
Schmoe
Y 4 Ever wrote:
Y 4 Ever wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.


You cannot be serious.


I am, I've told you why in several different threads, I'll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. And implying that my stance is without support or ridiculous in some way after all this is a little insulting.
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N
northerncougar
Lawboy wrote:
Coming into the 2011 season, the coaches talked about ahead of schedule this team was in terms of preparation. That has proven to be a major miscalculation. This team was not ready, and is still making some of the same mistakes in game 9 that it did early. We look sloppy, not sharp. This is a coaching issue.



Many times over hte years, many of us have talked about how BYU does not use it's full allotment of practice time. Not talking days, I am talking hours used in the day. Scrimmages ar shorter, as are practices. Bronco has stated that he does this to keep the team from injry, but it is clear that it is also keeping us from being sharp in the biggest games. We beat up on weak sisters, but in games vs equal caliber teams, or in games where we need t play up, we typically do not.



First off, the special teams mistakes were unacceptbale. We come out in weird splits at the line and just let TCU run free up the middle on us, and they got pressure all night long. THe first punt error was on the snapper and blocker. THE snap was to the right, and the blocker filled his lane too quickly and deflected the punt/ This should NEVER happen. The next poor punt was again on hte formation because Stephenson had t rush it to get it off due to pressure. Of course he basically shanked it. LAst one was totally on Stephenseon. But, TCU had set the tone of pressure and it was clear he was rushing things. I give Coach Howell a D- for his punt formations last night. Show me and NFL team that lines up lie he had us. there is a reason for it. You do not just let speed run at you up the middle.



The defense and secondary play once again was an issue. And who coaches the secondary? Coach Howell does. I am seeing a common link here. His units looked poor last night. They look poorly coached, not ready to handle when a team floods a deep zone. Travis Uale continues to blow his two deep assignments and is easily confused when teams attack his zone area with bodies. Been a problem all year and should have improved by now. EAson was better. Hadley/Sampson were solid. Sorensen was spotty. OUr secondary needs better coaching, plain and simple. And Coach Howell's units were not sharp.



Next, our O-line looks awful against fast, physical front 7's. They looked fat and slow last night. Riley got sacked like 6 times, and had pressure all game long. His ability to use his legs saved us all night long. OUr blocking schemes just stunk, the line missed many blocks, especially when TCU brought pressure. We were overmatched, and I am tired of our Oline looking so poor against the better teams. They need to play better. I saw Gurney claiming our Oline played good, but I disagree. They got outmatched on the outsides. And Coach Weber had another horrible night last night.



As to RIley NElson, dude needs to learn to take care of hte ball better. 3 turnovers himself, and all 3 on horrendous mental decisions. I get that he wants to avoid a sack--I should say another sack. It is clear why the oline loves him because he bails them out so often. BUt RIley needs to learn to eat it, or throw it away quicker. I do not recall RIley throwing a pass away all night. HE has to try to make a play, even when he shouldn't. HE needs to learn to throw it away sooner. Especially on 1st downs. His 2 BZ turnovers were both 1st down plays, and that is totally unacceptable. Take he sack even, you still have more downs. HAd they been 4th downs, I could live with it, but not on 1st down. Never.



After last night, clear to see where our coaching is weakest--Oline and secondary/special teams/QB coach. Has been that way all year. The fact we still struggle in those areas 9 games in tells me we either lack players in those areas, our coaching stinks in those areas, or we have scheme issues. I blame coaching and scheme the most.




100% correct.
N
northerncougar
Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.


You cannot be serious.


I am, I've told you why in several different threads, I'll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. And implying that my stance is without support or ridiculous in some way after all this is a little insulting.


Oh, too bad. Schmoe got his feelings hurt. Bronco has underperformed every year as the HC. Last night was just the latest game in his history to do that. Every single year we have at least one completely baffling, unexplainable loss. After 7 years I have accepted the fact that Bronco doesn't know how to get it done.



There is a lot of blame to go around from last night. Bronco is at the top of that list.
B
Brayden Green
You can't say that we outcoached a team, when we start sending the kicking team with 15 seconds left on the playclock right before the half AFTER WE HAD JUST USED A TIMEOUT THE PLAY BEFORE!



We were outcoached. Not necessarily out-gameplanned. But yes, out prepared, and out decisioned.







(How's that for a post with made up words?!?!?!?! Take that, everybody!!!)
S
Schmoe
northerncougar wrote:
Y 4 Ever wrote:
Y 4 Ever wrote:
I don't get all of this angst towards the coaching staff/Bronco.



The general consensus before kickoff was that BYU was going to get it handed to them. Instead, BYU makes a fight of it and looked to be the better team on the field and likely would have won the game with a few less bone-headed plays.



Instead of being pleasantly surprised by how BYU hung in the game, everyone is now pissed that BYU didn't win a game they didn't expect them to win. Everyone thinks Bronco has plateaued because his rag-tag offense with a first year OC just put more points on TCU than we have in the last three years, and because we covered the spread in a game with the sloppiest ST of his tenure and with Nelson vomiting the ball in the general direction of anything white any time he got wrapped up.



If anything, shouldn't we be optimistic after a suprisingly close contest instead of depressed?


Again, moral victories suck. Tcu was not a Better team than byu. They are just better coached



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


You've got it backwards. We outcoached TCU, but we were outplayed.


You cannot be serious.


I am, I've told you why in several different threads, I'll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. And implying that my stance is without support or ridiculous in some way after all this is a little insulting.


Oh, too bad. Schmoe got his feelings hurt. Bronco has underperformed every year as the HC. Last night was just the latest game in his history to do that. Every single year we have at least one completely baffling, unexplainable loss. After 7 years I have accepted the fact that Bronco doesn't know how to get it done.



There is a lot of blame to go around from last night. Bronco is at the top of that list.


Oh, too bad, guess you should coach the team cause you know oh so much about football. We were having a good discussion about football until you came in and got personal. You're a cancer to this board and a bad negative energy, do us all a favor and go away.
B
BigCougsFan
BlueIsBetter wrote:
(How's that for a post with made up words?!?!?!?! Take that, everybody!!!)


Typical blue-goggled :crazy: homer-cougar-wanna-be-who-hates-the-FrUtes :whistle:
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