Independence is Growing On Me

If you asked me a month or two ago if I wanted to remain independent or join the Big 12 I wouldn't have even hesitated to say we should join the Big 12 and give up whatever concessions necessary to get in the conference.



Now I'm actually leaning towards hoping that we stay independent so long as the super conference Armageddon doesn't happen.



Here are the reasons why I am changing my tune:



1. Utah is getting their butt kicked in the Pac 12. The Big 12 is a better football conference than the Pac 12 right now. How well do you think we would compete there in the next five years...



2. Getting to the BCS is guaranteed if you win the Big 12; however, its easier if we go undefeated as an independent.



3. I am really excited to see what our schedule can be as an independent in 2013 and beyond. I love the variety to playing new teams. Even though this year's home schedule kind of sucks, it is cool to see them play teams that we haven't ever played or its been a very long time: UCF, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State. We need cupcakes on the schedule so if we play easy teams at least its not the same teams every year i.e. Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, UNLV.



4. We don't know yet if we can or can't negotiate inclusion with the BCS as an independent yet. We won't know until the contract comes up in a year or two. I'm betting that we can get some kind of an automatic bid either as a certain ranking similar to Notre Dame or as an included party with the non-bcs conference champions. Although things have been quiet since Utah joined the Pac 12, Shirtleff has not dropped his BCS anti-trust case. He will still be making noise for BYU. If Notre Dame as an independent is given preferential treatment over BYU by the BCS it will just add more fuel to Shirtleff's argument.



5. Exposure. I didn't care about this before because I live in Utah and go to all of the home games. It hasn't really bothered me that the majority of our past home games have been on the mtn and I can't get that channel with Dishnetwork. For the away games on the mtn I just went to a family members house that had the channel. Now with the experience we went through with the Oregon State game and the game almost not being broadcast, I see exactly how TV coverage affects fans that are outside of Utah. It is important that all of our games are available on TV nationwide.





Do I want to get into a BCS Conference eventually, yes. I just don't want to do it before we have to, and I don't want to do it before we can compete. As an independent we need to have some success and build up our program. The first couple of years that Boise State was having success and was a BCS buster they could not have played a BCS conference schedule and had success. Now that they have had sustained success they have a program that I believe could complete strongly in the Pac 12 or Big 12. We need to go undefeated a couple of times and win BCS games. Build up our depth with quality recruits that we haven't had before. Then make the jump.



Yes, I realize that Rose likely won't stick around long in the WCC and our other sports will suffer. But lets face it, its probably another 30 years before we get another Ainge/Jimmer, so our basketball team will remain a tournament team but we aren't winning any championships anyway.

Wickchad84087 wrote:



5. Exposure. I didn't care about this before because I live in Utah and go to all of the home games. It hasn't really bothered me that the majority of our past home games have been on the mtn and I can't get that channel with Dishnetwork. For the away games on the mtn I just went to a family members house that had the channel. Now with the experience we went through with the Oregon State game and the game almost not being broadcast, I see exactly how TV coverage affects fans that are outside of Utah. It is important that all of our games are available on TV nationwide.

This is also absolutely crucial for recruiting. Not only so that out-of-state recruits see/hear more about BYU - but also so that they know that their families can watch most or all of their games on TV.



I'd prefer Big 12...but I'm just fine with Indy, provided the schedule can look like 2013 on a regular basis.

Playing quality opponents in meaningful games is also crucial for recruiting. Getting exposure vs. Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, USU will do little for recruiting, if it is long term. If we stay Indy, we have to have meaningful games, and games that matter in November. We have none this year. Look to have none next year, and will have a tough time getting games in November in the future as well. We can not front load and expect to be relevant long term.

Like lawboy said, scheduling is my primary concern. But altogether, I like independence on almost every level.



I've got to think the sudden revulsion many BYU fans are showing towards independence and this year's weak schedule is in direct reaction to Utah's suddenly-guaranteed SOS every year. We're not comparing independence to a MWC slate (where it compares favorably, at least in 2012 and 2013), we're comparing it to what it would be like to have Oregon, USC and Washington guaranteed to come into our house every couple of years. And I get that concern as it pertains to local recruiting, coverage and interest. But I get kinda pissed of (especially on other forums) when it just looks like disguised Red envy.

Lawboy wrote:
Playing quality opponents in meaningful games is also crucial for recruiting. Getting exposure vs. Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, USU will do little for recruiting, if it is long term. If we stay Indy, we have to have meaningful games, and games that matter in November. We have none this year. Look to have none next year, and will have a tough time getting games in November in the future as well. We can not front load and expect to be relevant long term.

One thing I have been wondering about is I've heard that Notre Dame also struggles with scheduling games in November. So why are we not playing them in November? I think all 6 of our games are in October...

I am feeling the same way. At first I felt like being and Indy was very unstable, but after the last year of conference realignment. I feel like we are more stable than ever. Being able to schedule teams that we want to, instead having to go to the same places every year. I also believe if we want a shot at BCS we need to "stay the course" of indy. Also after BYUTV, FOX and ESPN pulled off what they did against OSU and it received such high ratings, I think BYUTV just became a much larger asset and great tool for us as a University.



I personally think that the Super Conferences will eventually blow up anyway.

Wickchad84087 wrote:

Playing quality opponents in meaningful games is also crucial for recruiting. Getting exposure vs. Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, USU will do little for recruiting, if it is long term. If we stay Indy, we have to have meaningful games, and games that matter in November. We have none this year. Look to have none next year, and will have a tough time getting games in November in the future as well. We can not front load and expect to be relevant long term.

One thing I have been wondering about is I've heard that Notre Dame also struggles with scheduling games in November. So why are we not playing them in November? I think all 6 of our games are in October...

2012 is in October. 2013 is in November. The other 4 games aren't set yet.

Wickchad84087 wrote:

Playing quality opponents in meaningful games is also crucial for recruiting. Getting exposure vs. Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, USU will do little for recruiting, if it is long term. If we stay Indy, we have to have meaningful games, and games that matter in November. We have none this year. Look to have none next year, and will have a tough time getting games in November in the future as well. We can not front load and expect to be relevant long term.

One thing I have been wondering about is I've heard that Notre Dame also struggles with scheduling games in November. So why are we not playing them in November? I think all 6 of our games are in October...

ND plays Pittsburgh, USC, and Navy pretty much every November.



BYU is slated to play ND in November in 2013, but ND only has 3 November openings on their schedule between now and 2016, and two of those are in the same year, so at best BYU could hope to land 2 more November games over the next five years.

It is definitely growing on me.



As a west coast guy I would have liked being in the Pac-12, if Pac-12 presidents actually liked BYU . I liked the Pac 10's rivalry pairings, their emphasis on academics, and their focus on all sports, not just football. But they hate BYU( even though the ADs seem to like scheduling BYU) so that doesn't work.



The Big 12 to me is the Oklahoma and Texas football scheduling alliance. Nothing really tying the rest of them together other than OU and UT needing schedule fillers and a place for their other sports. I wouldn't be sad to see BYU join the Big 12, but I wouldn't be too sad if they turned down an invite.



I love being able to watch more BYU games. I love being able to replay most of the games on BYUTV.org.



I love the variety in the schedule. Even if this year was full of cream puffs, but at least they were new cream puffs. I trust that the schedule will improve.



And actually, I am a little excited for the WCC. Sure the arenas will be tiny, but I think it will have a good feel. At least their fan bases should be more pleasant.

Good points. I especially like the OSU game ratings and the new reputation of KBYU. It could really develop into a nice property and help us out a lot. If we can get into a good conference in the next 8 years we will be good shape. The next few years with our tv schdule will really help to build out brand and push us forward. The concern is what is our future. I can't help remembering a former AD who said we could have joined the PAC-10 years ago but he felt it was not a good idea. Will we be saying this again 10 years from now. Did we blow the negotiations or were we assute? I don't know.

Lawboy wrote:
Playing quality opponents in meaningful games is also crucial for recruiting. Getting exposure vs. Idaho, NMSU, SJSU, USU will do little for recruiting, if it is long term. If we stay Indy, we have to have meaningful games, and games that matter in November. We have none this year. Look to have none next year, and will have a tough time getting games in November in the future as well. We can not front load and expect to be relevant long term.

Worked well for BSU and TCU and U. Winning is good for recruiting. Losing is bad for recruiting. Our recruiting challenges come from lack of diversity in the student body and HC restrictions unappealing to many, and small town. Losing to great teams frequently quickly makes us Baylor. Maybe we ought to figure out how to run the table on a 2010 or 2011 schedule before we worry too much about beefing it up - especially giving up home field.



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I'm accepting independence. I don't necessarily like it, but I don't hate it either. I'm convinced based on what I've seen from BYU football during most of my lifetime that we aren't ready to make the jump to a major conference. A MWC/WAC type of schedule has been plenty challenging for BYU historically and judging what we have lined up for the future the overall schedule will be substantially tougher than what we are used to seeing.



I'm not worried about recruiting. The Honor Code has a much bigger impact on recruiting than conference affiliation or lack thereof.



My biggest concern is bowl affiliation. We've just made going to the BCS more difficult, but we've got to have a greater reward for a 10-2 season than the Mac N' Cheese Bowl.

Good points, all. I would add that I would not want BYU to be treated like a Baylor, or an Iowa State in getting a skimpy share of national TV coverage compared to Oklahoma and Texas. I know that the Big 12 has made an internal deal to share the TV money finally, which is good. But if BYU could not be on ESPN or FOX as much in the Big 12 as they will average on ESPN as an Indy, then I would rather have us stay as we are. We have too much national cache/brand, too many fans to disappoint, too much exposure to command, to want to become a patsy to Texas and Oklahoma regarding TV opportunity. I think that is where BYU's issue lies in all of this, rather than the TV partners' willingness to deal with no Sunday play (which I think they would).



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Example of the effect of indy tv coverage.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=7643849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I had a choice between the Big 12 or Indi I would choose the Big 12 everytime no questions about it. The chance to play with the big boys every week, isnt that what we all have been asking for for the last 20+ years? I just want to lose the "mid major" tag so bad.



If the choice is between the MWC and Indi well that to is a no brainer for me. Indi!



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I'm still mulling over this one.



Bottom line, the best thing for BYU football is to get to a point where it is competing on a national level. The more I think about this the more I think the easiest way for us to accomplish that is to stay independent. I think we have better odds of going undefeated as an independent and getting to a BCS bowl than winning the Big 12 championship. If we can't run the table with a schedule like we had in MWC or like this season than I don't see how we'd be able to win a Big 12 title.



As an added bonus, watching BYU is tremendously easy now and the OSU game reminded me how much of a pain it was to watch games before. It's been great this season.



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Of course there is also BYU's expectation to use byutv, which is a another whole fish to fry.

Regarding bowl affiliation, perhaps an independent BYU can "make" a big bowl out of an obscure one over years of winning and thereby drawing increasingly better opponents--- in a similar fashion to the way BYU made the Holiday Bowl. Only this time ideally, BYU would keep the bowl it had made, except for when achieving a BCS bowl berth.



Just my thoughts.



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a1247 wrote:
If I had a choice between the Big 12 or Indi I would choose the Big 12 everytime no questions about it. The chance to play with the big boys every week, isnt that what we all have been asking for for the last 20+ years? I just want to lose the "mid major" tag so bad.



If the choice is between the MWC and Indi well that to is a no brainer for me. Indi!



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Nobody considers Notre Dame a mid-major and they aren't in any conference. If BYU starts winning all of its games and gets into and beats BCS opponents, then BYU will lose the mid-major tag. Especially if, as a result, BYU gets some kind of deal with BCS for auto inclusion if BYU is in the top 10 or something.



We have no leverage for that kind of deal right now. But if we had Boise State's recent history combined with our fanbase and exposure, I think the BCS would be more likely to make that kind of deal. For them, its all about the Benjamins.



If you become a consistent BCS Bowl team, then the opportunity opens up for a national championship game. What some are forgetting is that even undefeated BCS teams get left out occasionally (see Auburn). Going to the Big XII does not guarantee a National Championship game, even if undefeated.



So, step by step we can build this program into a national championship contender, but it all relies on winning everything on your schedule. Winning cures everything.

scott715 wrote:
Example of the effect of indy tv coverage.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=7643849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is pretty cool.



Message board yahoos can say whatever we want about the goals of BYU athletics, but to the Board of Directors missionary work is the real goal. They see exposure, winning and potential championships as ways to reach their real goal.

BOID wrote:
Of course there is also BYU's expectation to use byutv, which is a another whole fish to fry.

Regarding bowl affiliation, perhaps an independent BYU can "make" a big bowl out of an obscure one over years of winning and thereby drawing increasingly better opponents--- in a similar fashion to the way BYU made the Holiday Bowl. Only this time ideally, BYU would keep the bowl it had made, except for when achieving a BCS bowl berth.



Just my thoughts.



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I don't see BYU settling into just one bowl. (If they wanted to go to the same bowl over and over again they should have stayed in the MWC and gone to the Las Vegas BYU Bowl nearly every year.)



Going independent has allowed BYU to spread its brand. Instead of visiting the same 8 conference destinations every other year, BYU football gets to travel all over the place. Going independent swapped road games in San Diego, Las Vegas, Laramie and ABQ, and replaced them with games in Oxford, Austin, Dallas, Corvallis, Honolulu and an extra home game. And next year instead of Fort Worth, Fort Collins, and Colorado Springs it is Atlanta, Boise and South Bend.



BYU gets to do the same thing with Bowl games. Assuming not BCS bowl invites, but still bowl eligibility, BYU will play bowls in Dallas, San Diego and San Francisco in the next three years. I think BYU will hope to build their bowl value for those bowls, but I foresee BYU moving their bowl tie ins nearly every year. Bring the game to the fans.