Concerns with the Pass Defense

BYU is leting young QBs excel. The defense has not shown discipline on third down, either, and that is hurting BYU.



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I'm okay giving up yards. it's the points. And last I checked, we're giving up a pretty low number of those.

And yet opponents have converted only 34 of their 90 third downs (.378) the lowest percentage since 2007. On third and long (7 or more) opponents are just 13 of 44 (.295). And just under half of the third downs faced (44-90 -.488) are third and long.



We've given up just five passing TDs in seven games. Our opponents PER is under 120. One of our corner backs is in the top 10 in passes defended.



Concerns about the pass defense and defense in general are overstated and over-believed.



And since we're only playing bad teams anyways, why is anyone worrying at all?

SpiffCoug wrote:
And yet opponents have converted only 34 of their 90 third downs (.378) the lowest percentage since 2007. On third and long (7 or more) opponents are just 13 of 44 (.295). And just under half of the third downs faced (44-90 -.488) are third and long.



We've given up just five passing TDs in seven games. Our opponents PER is under 120. One of our corner backs is in the top 10 in passes defended.



Concerns about the pass defense and defense in general are overstated and over-believed.



And since we're only playing bad teams anyways, why is anyone worrying at all?

That just goes to show that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Your statistics tell a different story then what I am seeing on the field. When I see QB's throwing 15 yard completions on 3rd and 12 consistantly, or PI calls giving up 1st downs, I have a hard time believing that BYU's pass defense is doing its job. Corby Eason may be in the top 10 in pass breakups in the nation but he is also leading the nation in TD's over his head. So far this year, the pass defense has been a disapointment to me. I am hoping that our we make more improvements and get this thing fixed. It is disconcerting to see teams move the ball up and down the field on BYU as easily as it has happened. We can't keep relying on bad kickers missing FG's to get stops.

BYU has given up 5 TD through the air. Not all have been over Eason's head.



Converting 13-44 3rd & Long is not doing so consistently.



I'll trust my empirical data over impressions that get jaded by a few missed assignments.

SpiffCoug wrote:
BYU has given up 5 TD through the air. Not all have been over Eason's head.



Converting 13-44 3rd & Long is not doing so consistently.



I'll trust my empirical data over impressions that get jaded by a few missed assignments.

Where do your stats factor in the fact that most of these QBS are FRESHMEN or bench warming bums?



Why do you omit the STATS about QBs playing better aginst BYU than they have on average the rest of the season (Jordan Wynn 135 PER vs. BYU, 123 for the season).



Utah State's true freshman QB had 2 TD passes. Our #1 rated HS QB Jake Heaps had 2 TD passes in the first 8 games last year.



That same #1 rated HS QB had less than 92 yards passing in 2 full games (one against putrid Wyoming) last year. Yet, Oregon State's freshman QB, who his own coach admitted he didn't think he would be a starter, could pass for over 300 yards against BYU.



Sure, all is well in Zion. BYU doesn't need to worry about the pass defense. I can't wait to hear Bronco's rhetoric after Hawaii puts up another 72 on BYU because the coaches let the DBs weaknesses slide all year long.



Bend but don't break isn't a good philosophy. Relying on interceptions deep in your territory to stop scoring threats will burn you against the good teams.

Ok, Y12, why don't you give us all of QB's PER vs BYU and overall instead of giving us tired rhetoric about things that happened last year.

I can do it.



Ole Miss - 99.47 avg, 96.77 vs. BYU

Texas - 129.31 avg, 91.66 vs. BYU (improved when Gilbert was benched)

Utah - 122.19 avg, 131.21 vs. BYU

UCF - 143.60 avg, 147.46 vs. BYU

Utah State - 146.18 avg, 114.79 vs. BYU

SJSU - 112.64 avg, 121.20 vs. BYU

OSU - 115.14 avg, 120.94 vs. BYU



Translation - BYU has a pretty average pass defense. I don't think Hawaii would be the team to exploit that, though. Casey Pachall is twice the QB Moniz is.

So, the "stats" about QB's playing better against BYU are that half of the teams have had better-than-average passing against us, and half of the teams have had worse-than-average, not really telling of anything. As for Hawaii, San Jose State beat them and held their QB to a 115 PER, that same defense allowed Nelson's 159 PER the week before. I'm not worried.

Also relevant:



BYU has given up:

-61 passes for 10 yards or more (30th most in FBS)

-21 passes for 20 yards or more (33rd)

-7 passes for 30 yards or more (61st)

-4 passes for 40 yards or more (47th)

-4 passes for 50 or more (9th)

-0 passes for anything more than 60 yards (among 53 FBS schools with the same distinction)



So yeah, I think BYU struggles a bit defending the deep pass.

(Sorry for the double post)I do think, however, that any team that tries to beat us by focusing on the deep ball is stupid beyond stupid. Weak secondary or not, it's still a low percentage play. I felt like that happened w/ OSU - they tried exploiting the secondary too much when they could have been executing more effective plays to pick up the yardage.

Schmoe wrote:
Ok, Y12, why don't you give us all of QB's PER vs BYU and overall instead of giving us tired rhetoric about things that happened last year.

I think you are missing my point. This isn't about the stats.



How do you feel about a bunch of freshmen quarterbacks playing so well against BYU?



I find it alarming, especially after we saw Jake struggle so much last year.



HOw do you feel about our players commiting pass interference on 3rd downs?



That doesn't show up on the stats sheets, but it keeps drives alive and can lead to points.



HOw do you feel about other teams converting 3rd down with passing plays, while BYU could rarely do it until Nelson become QB?



This is one reason why I think the PER formula should be adjusted to add bonus points for 3rd down conversions. Not all 6 yard passes are equal. A six yard pass on 3rd and 8 or a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 4, which do you want? Well, BYU's opponents are getting the latter far to frequently for my comfort.

Hawaii didn't put 72 on BYU because of poor pass defense. They put 72 points on BYU because of 7 BYU turnovers, huge punt returns (including for a TD) and huge KO returns including one for a TD).



Here are the length of Hawaii's offensive scoring drives:

TD 1: 2- yard TD Pass; Drive: 2 plays, 32 yards.

TD 2: 74-yard punt return.

TD 3: 100-yard kickoff return

FG 1: 45-yard FG; Drive: 4 plays, 4 yards (45-yard FG means it was kicked from the 28yd line, with 4-yards of offense, Hawaii got the ball on the 32-yard line.)

TD 4: 15-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 41 yards.

TD 5: 19-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 64 yards (first real sustained drive for Hawaii)

TD 6: 21-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 73 yards (sustained drive #2 for Hawaii)

TD 7: 5-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 18 yards

TD 8: 80-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 80 yards ("sustained" drive #3 for Hawaii, not sure one play constitutes a sustained drive)

TD 9: 18-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 46 yards (why are you throwing when up 27 in the 4th?)

TD 10: 12-yard TD pass; Drive: 8 plays, 70 yards (why are you throwing when up 26 in the 4th?)

That was a lot of short fields in that game.

Y12 wrote:
HOw do you feel about our players commiting pass interference on 3rd downs?



That doesn't show up on the stats sheets, but it keeps drives alive and can lead to points.



HOw do you feel about other teams converting 3rd down with passing plays, while BYU could rarely do it until Nelson become QB?



This is one reason why I think the PER formula should be adjusted to add bonus points for 3rd down conversions. Not all 6 yard passes are equal. A six yard pass on 3rd and 8 or a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 4, which do you want? Well, BYU's opponents are getting the latter far to frequently for my comfort.

These do show up in the stat sheet. My stats on 3rd down conversions and 3rd and long conversions account for first downs by penalty.

The PER formula is fine and BYU's PER defense is more than adequate. You're over-reacting to a handful of plays and missed assignments.



Against SJSU, 6 of the Spartans 10 3rd downs were 3rd & 7 or longer. Against Oregon St, 8 of their 12 3rd downs were 3rd & 7 or longer.

Schmoe wrote:
So, the "stats" about QB's playing better against BYU are that half of the teams have had better-than-average passing against us, and half of the teams have had worse-than-average, not really telling of anything. As for Hawaii, San Jose State beat them and held their QB to a 115 PER, that same defense allowed Nelson's 159 PER the week before. I'm not worried.

BYU won't play the same Hawaii team SJSU played.



1. BYU is a home game for Hawaii. SJSU was Hawaii's 4th road game in a 6 week period. BYU will be Hawaii's 3rd consecutive home game.



2. BYU will get Hawaii's best game. They hate us and see us as a rival.

I am more concerned by our absolute lack of QB pressure this year than anything. A secondary's best friend is QB pressure, and we basically get none. We might as well drop 10 on most plays because we are not committed to rushing the passer.

Y12 wrote:

So, the "stats" about QB's playing better against BYU are that half of the teams have had better-than-average passing against us, and half of the teams have had worse-than-average, not really telling of anything. As for Hawaii, San Jose State beat them and held their QB to a 115 PER, that same defense allowed Nelson's 159 PER the week before. I'm not worried.

BYU won't play the same Hawaii team SJSU played.



1. BYU is a home game for Hawaii. SJSU was Hawaii's 4th road game in a 6 week period. BYU will be Hawaii's 3rd consecutive home game.



2. BYU will get Hawaii's best game. They hate us and see us as a rival.

So their QB will somehow get better because he's at home and we're rivals? I'm sorry, but QB isn't an effort position where you play WAY better just by getting pumped up.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Hawaii didn't put 72 on BYU because of poor pass defense. They put 72 points on BYU because of 7 BYU turnovers, huge punt returns (including for a TD) and huge KO returns including one for a TD).



Here are the length of Hawaii's offensive scoring drives:

TD 1: 2- yard TD Pass; Drive: 2 plays, 32 yards.

TD 2: 74-yard punt return.

TD 3: 100-yard kickoff return

FG 1: 45-yard FG; Drive: 4 plays, 4 yards (45-yard FG means it was kicked from the 28yd line, with 4-yards of offense, Hawaii got the ball on the 32-yard line.)

TD 4: 15-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 41 yards.

TD 5: 19-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 64 yards (first real sustained drive for Hawaii)

TD 6: 21-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 73 yards (sustained drive #2 for Hawaii)

TD 7: 5-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 18 yards

TD 8: 80-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 80 yards ("sustained" drive #3 for Hawaii, not sure one play constitutes a sustained drive)

TD 9: 18-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 46 yards (why are you throwing when up 27 in the 4th?)

TD 10: 12-yard TD pass; Drive: 8 plays, 70 yards (why are you throwing when up 26 in the 4th?)

That was a lot of short fields in that game.

If 8 TD passes isn't poor pass defense, then I don't know what is.

Y12 wrote:
If 8 TD passes isn't poor pass defense, then I don't know what is.

Not all passes are created equal, you said so yourself. That pass defense that day was put in awful situations. But you are correct, yeilding a 190.41 passer rating is very bad defense. To be consistent in PER, that's a poor pass defense.



So if 8 TD passes allowed in one game is poor pass defense, wouldn't it be fair to conclude that 5 TD passes allwed in seven games is pretty good pass defense?

Y12 wrote:

Hawaii didn't put 72 on BYU because of poor pass defense. They put 72 points on BYU because of 7 BYU turnovers, huge punt returns (including for a TD) and huge KO returns including one for a TD).



Here are the length of Hawaii's offensive scoring drives:

TD 1: 2- yard TD Pass; Drive: 2 plays, 32 yards.

TD 2: 74-yard punt return.

TD 3: 100-yard kickoff return

FG 1: 45-yard FG; Drive: 4 plays, 4 yards (45-yard FG means it was kicked from the 28yd line, with 4-yards of offense, Hawaii got the ball on the 32-yard line.)

TD 4: 15-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 41 yards.

TD 5: 19-yard TD pass; Drive: 6 plays, 64 yards (first real sustained drive for Hawaii)

TD 6: 21-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 73 yards (sustained drive #2 for Hawaii)

TD 7: 5-yard TD pass; Drive: 4 plays, 18 yards

TD 8: 80-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 80 yards ("sustained" drive #3 for Hawaii, not sure one play constitutes a sustained drive)

TD 9: 18-yard TD pass; Drive: 3 plays, 46 yards (why are you throwing when up 27 in the 4th?)

TD 10: 12-yard TD pass; Drive: 8 plays, 70 yards (why are you throwing when up 26 in the 4th?)

That was a lot of short fields in that game.

If 8 TD passes isn't poor pass defense, then I don't know what is.

Bronco was not the dcoordinator in 2001, if he had been, we would be looking back at 2001 as probably our best ever team. that 2001 defense gave up 35 pts per game. If we hadn't had an offense that scored nearly 50 pts per game we would have had a losing record.