Sorry - Can't Start The Week Without Big Speculation

Can we?



Pay particular attention to the quote about "maybe, even though it has been said that MIssouri cannot leave for 2012 - that maybe it still can if it hurries". Note the words from NY times "Inevitable" and "Imminent". Remember Holmoe's comment that things change by the week.



http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32791624" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

O Goodie! This is so much more exciting than analyzing a crappy Idaho State team ad nauseam. Bib, you made my day!

In your and other's wildest dreams. Its OVER!!!! It aint going to happen. Texas and the Big 12 are not going to let the media thing go!! ANd neither is The Big B brethren.



But i will agree with yourr other posts. How does 3-3 look now for Utah? It aint pretty. We couldnt beat a lower team in the Big 12. What are they, 6th or 7th best this year in the Big 12? That would make BYU irerlevant, buried, obscure, and exposed as posers. And that would be Jake's fault as well? ;-)

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Can we?



Pay particular attention to the quote about "maybe, even though it has been said that MIssouri cannot leave for 2012 - that maybe it still can if it hurries". Note the words from NY times "Inevitable" and "Imminent". Remember Holmoe's comment that things change by the week.



http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32791624" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, any speculation or references to anyone but tom holmoe are not to be talked about here. This forum is above that. Take your speculation and information you have heard elsewhere to those lowly cougarboard types. And you are stupid if you believe anybody but holmoe. He has said we are not invited yet we are in negotiations with them right now. see if you can figure that out.

Well, now the Kansas City star is reporting that BYU might be part of a three team expansion, should Missouri leave--which is probably just a matter of time.



http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2143



However, we saw TCU slip in. I'm thinking there are more than enough teams in the Big East and Texas that the Big 12 could steal, so we would likely be out again.



Like Holmoe said, no invitation has been extended, and dealing with the TV issues, Sunday play, etc., I expect we won't get one either.



And that doesn't bother me at all.

Believe nothing that doesn't come from Holmoe. Don't get your hopes too caught up.

Too late. My hopes have been up for months now. Still hoping it happens. If it doesn't, and good reason exists, I can live with it. But still want it for selfish reasons. Would be pumped to have those teams come to LES for football and the MC for hoops. Would also be nice because Ute fan has nothing on us after that either. Utah would be a pretty awesome college sports state. I want that badly.

Deseret News has some updates on potential invites. Sounds like a lot more people are hot on BYU to B12 than before...maybe resulting from TH's comments on Saturday. One guy even says BYU is in discussion to come aboard.



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705392716/Blue-roundup-Is-BYU-still-a-candidate-for-Big-12.html

well, I for one believe all things and I hope all things.



I've endured many rumors, and hope to endure all rumors. Especially if they are virtuous, Big-12 related, from a good source, or praiseworthy....



I, for one, seek after these things.

hawkwing wrote:
Believe nothing that doesn't come from Holmoe. Don't get your hopes too caught up.

Just an FYI--BYU and the Big XII are pretty seasoned business persons, and no one wants to come out of this looking bad. Both are keenly aware of public perception after the aTm debacle.



BYU to the Big XII, if ever, will work out in the following fashion:



1) Big XII will contact BYU to gauge interest.

2) BYU BoT will meet and confer to decide (a) whether to pursue, and (b) if they pursue, under what terms.

3) If BoT gives any sort of green light, BYU and the Big XII will quietly negotiate the terms under which BYU would join the Big XII (if anywhere, this is where BYU is and has been since aTm started acting funny).

4) Once terms are agreed to in principle, the Big XII presidents must meet and vote whether to invite BYU or not--the Big XII cannot invite anyone without the approval of the presidents. The presidents will then give Neinas formal authority to go out and "negotiate" a deal with BYU.

5) Neinas and the Big XII will formally invite BYU on the terms they already formally negotiated.

6) BYU's BoT and/or administration will meet to go over the formal invite, and will vote to accept.



Note that once you get to an agreement in principle, steps 4-6 are essentially formalities to do this "by the book." The Big XII will not officially offer or invite BYU until they are certain that BYU will accept. They cannot afford the black eye of getting turned down, and BYU won't want it either--BYU doesn't want to deal with fan backlash for turning down an official invite.



So, Holmoe was right in that BYU has not been invited yet--that won't come until BYU has essentially already said yes. This is also how you know that BYU has never had an official offer from the Big XII--the Big XII cannot make that offer without approval from its presidents (go back and look at how the TCU invite took place if you care to verify), and the Big XII will not make that invite unless it is certain to be accepted. My guess is that we will find out about any BYU invite through leaks at the Big XII telling of a vote by the presidents--once you get to that point, you can start saving up for your blue "Fully Invited" t-shirts. Until that point, anyone saying "BYU has an offer" is probably one of those who Tom Holmoe was referring to who either (a) has a fictional source, or (b) has a source who doesn't know as much as they think.

This is Kind of like a car dealer who starts writing on a "deal sheet" terms you'll have to agree to or negotiate around but will all find their way into the contract once you're settled-- but you don't get the car until you go talk to the financier in back. That's the contract.



I agree with Sno that this is exactly how TH can say "we don't have an offer" even though the Big 12 and BYU likely have made back and forth conditional offers/terms (it's all what you call it right?). That's the final Car contract and step 5 on Sno's list. When an insider says "BYU has an offer" well, that's true and false since that most likely refers to steps 2 and 3 on Sno's list. And they are likely legitimate offers. Let's say the first term put forth by the Big 12 includes Full Sunday Play, 10 years no big -12 revenue, we don't get a single home game with Oklahoma or Texas until 2017, and we rename BYUtv to be NeinasTV. We'll turn that down, but that's still an offer in my book since if BYU says yes, we're in. But have we ever been given a formal "offer" or Sno step 6? no. If I were an insider, I'd be reporting steps 2 and 3 as offers and TH could still be right,although misleading, by saying we haven't gotten a final contractual offer.

I personally do not have a twitter account and at work it is blocked...but while home for lunch i looked at rumorboard, there seems to be a lot of talk that BYU is going to B12, take it for what that is worth, but they did have a lot of citations and references to media people that are reporting that BYU seems to have leap frogged a lot of BE teams. Gswaim (not sure if that is his name) is the main force behind those rumors. Also Chip is pushing a lot of BYU talk. Interesting talk if you ask me. Not sure what to think of all this.

I had to talk myself into independence in '10. Then, when the Big XII rumors heated up, I had to talk myself into the Big XII. The last two weeks, I've talked myself back into independence. I'm not perusing Twitter or rumor-mongering anymore, because I don't want to have to talk myself into anything unless I know its happening. :)

Dcr36 wrote:
I had to talk myself into independence in '10. Then, when the Big XII rumors heated up, I had to talk myself into the Big XII. The last two weeks, I've talked myself back into independence. I'm not perusing Twitter or rumor-mongering anymore, because I don't want to have to talk myself into anything unless I know its happening. :)

Exactly why I'm saying not to invest yourself in anything until we hear things from Tom Holmoe, or Greg Wrubell at the worst. The lay of this landscape changes every day and people have been working themselves up into a frenzy about it. I even saw some idiots on twitter claim they had lost their desire to go to church, because of the way the Church turned down the Big12.

snoscythe wrote:

Believe nothing that doesn't come from Holmoe. Don't get your hopes too caught up.

Just an FYI--BYU and the Big XII are pretty seasoned business persons, and no one wants to come out of this looking bad. Both are keenly aware of public perception after the aTm debacle.



BYU to the Big XII, if ever, will work out in the following fashion:



1) Big XII will contact BYU to gauge interest.

2) BYU BoT will meet and confer to decide (a) whether to pursue, and (b) if they pursue, under what terms.

3) If BoT gives any sort of green light, BYU and the Big XII will quietly negotiate the terms under which BYU would join the Big XII (if anywhere, this is where BYU is and has been since aTm started acting funny).

4) Once terms are agreed to in principle, the Big XII presidents must meet and vote whether to invite BYU or not--the Big XII cannot invite anyone without the approval of the presidents. The presidents will then give Neinas formal authority to go out and "negotiate" a deal with BYU.

5) Neinas and the Big XII will formally invite BYU on the terms they already formally negotiated.

6) BYU's BoT and/or administration will meet to go over the formal invite, and will vote to accept.



Note that once you get to an agreement in principle, steps 4-6 are essentially formalities to do this "by the book." The Big XII will not officially offer or invite BYU until they are certain that BYU will accept. They cannot afford the black eye of getting turned down, and BYU won't want it either--BYU doesn't want to deal with fan backlash for turning down an official invite.



So, Holmoe was right in that BYU has not been invited yet--that won't come until BYU has essentially already said yes. This is also how you know that BYU has never had an official offer from the Big XII--the Big XII cannot make that offer without approval from its presidents (go back and look at how the TCU invite took place if you care to verify), and the Big XII will not make that invite unless it is certain to be accepted. My guess is that we will find out about any BYU invite through leaks at the Big XII telling of a vote by the presidents--once you get to that point, you can start saving up for your blue "Fully Invited" t-shirts. Until that point, anyone saying "BYU has an offer" is probably one of those who Tom Holmoe was referring to who either (a) has a fictional source, or (b) has a source who doesn't know as much as they think.

Thank you for stating the obvious. However the big12 negotiating is basically an implied invite, while not official as noted.

Dcr36 wrote:
I had to talk myself into independence in '10. Then, when the Big XII rumors heated up, I had to talk myself into the Big XII. The last two weeks, I've talked myself back into independence. I'm not perusing Twitter or rumor-mongering anymore, because I don't want to have to talk myself into anything unless I know its happening. :)

lol. this is how i felt as well.

When will Tom Holmoe announce Missouri's decision. Actually Tom made it pretty clear not to believe anything until Big 12 speaks.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
When will Tom Holmoe announce Missouri's decision. Actually Tom made it pretty clear not to believe anything until Big 12 speaks.

Wrong school, Bib.



But by all accounts, if Mizzou does decide to bolt, the Big XII has stated that they expect them to play in the league in 2012 because they missed the window for 2012. So unless another team can be quickly lined up for 2012, looks as if Mizzou would have to wait until at least 2013.



Also of note here is that the Big East schools met today and announced that Syracuse and Pitt can;t leave until June 30, 2014. So the ACC has to wait, which meas if Louisville, WVU or Cinci want to bolt, the wait will be June 30, 2014 as well. The BE is sticking to their guns, sounds like.



Which means if Mizzou leaves and the Big XII needs a team quick(2013-14 season or sooner), the options are limited.

This is the whole reason I bothered to post this speculative piece and pointed out key words and phrases. The NY post indicated that contrary to Neinas' previous statements, maybe MO could go in 2012 after all if they move quickly.



Now that TCU already went, there is probably only one way the BIG would agree to let MO go now which may be why Neinas keeps asking SEC to tell him now if they are going to offer MO.



It would be simpler for all concerned if SEC takes MO now, doesn't have to figure out how to schedule a 13 team season only to change again later, and BIG finds some school somewhere that could go right now.



Short list - don't you think?



That was why the OP.



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jonnylingo wrote:
Thank you for stating the obvious. However the big12 negotiating is basically an implied invite, while not official as noted.

I agree that negotiating is an implied invite, but it is also implied if not express that nothing is final until an offer is in hand.



Those are the "insiders" I take issue with--not the ones who say negotiations are ongoing, but those who claim "BYU has an offer in hand!" Hopefully anyone can see that claiming BYU has an offer in hand is not the same as claiming BYU and the Big XII are in negotiations.