Archived Topic

EXPOSURE and ACCESS Vs NC and MONEY

by Cougarbib · 10/12/2011

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Cougarbib
Probably very relevant information to the Big 12 situation and the Church (posted elsewhere originally but moved here for discussion):



There is a fundamental difference between what the Church means by EXPOSURE and what the die hard fans want in ACCESS. There is a difference between exposure and access. We all want access in our own way. If you are a die-hard fan and live close enough - you go to the stadium every game. If you are a casual fan you go to the stadium once in a while - probably for a big game and pay through the nose to scalp a ticket. And as a die-hard fan, you dvr it and watch it again because you can get it on tv. For those of us half way round the world - I flew in for the UCF game - not that I really gave a hoot about UCF, I would have been more interested in Utah, USU, or SDSU, etc., or a BCS team, but that was the week for me to go personally and see if I was misjudging why Heaps was missing all of those throws. Luckily, I can afford to go to Utah on tthe way to or from somewhere else, usually, and do that. I have season tickets. My BYU student sons use them now, but in other years siblings, nephews, nieces, etc., got some free tickets.



But below is EXPOSURE - that was all ACCESS. ACCESS is for the existing fans. EXPOSURE is for everyone else. Those Friday night games got seen by tons of people who are not BYU fans, might become BYU fans, are not members of the Church, might become members of the Church, who did not seek the game out, some are college football junkies and it was the only game in town on Friday night. I have had several let me know that they saw it. Some here in Hawaii use it to scout us out. They play us later. That is access and esposure.



Some people will seek out the BYU game because they want to see it for some reason and will look for it. Utes will seek it out and hope we lose. That is access and exposure. If they want it bad enough, they will go KSL internet radio or Justin TV, etc. to get access. They love it when ESPN provides ACCESS and BYU TV provides ACCESS.



Most EXPOSURE happens when people just stumble onto it without seeking it out. Those can be massive numbers of people who will watch it that are much larger than the seekers that will go look for it. That is what drives big TV revenue, and Church exposure. The one thing makes ESPN interested - revenue and the other makes BYU interested - Exposure. BYU never mentions ACCESS or MONEY - they are nice by-products of EXPOSURE.



It will all work. I was on the Big 12 bandwagon - driving it iirc. But Independence is just fine and better in many ways - related to exposure. Since Armageddon did not happen and looks less likely to happen for a while, that is probably why BYU cooled on Big 12 or maybe asked more than Big 12 would concede relative to exposure. Don't go ballistic over it.



Scheduling is the only problem with Independence that matters. And we need plenty of cupcakes anyway. Whine to me about the schedule right after we go undefated a couple of times in a row. The problem with the schedule is playing too many good teams on the road. We cannot do that if EXPOSURE is going to work. People will stumble across a competiive game and watch it. They will not stay tuned into a blowout if not a fan of one of the teams or a Jimmer type player. They just won't.



So as long as we do not schedule ourselves into oblivion - Independence may be the best solution.



BIg 12 would be a shorter path to a NC or other BCS BOwl if we could compete - we would have to recruit more speed than could probably follow the honor code to even compete in the Big 12 let alone win the Big 12. That might have spelled the end of meaningful exposure.



Losing loses ESPN's interest and the casual viewer that might stumble across the game and nobody would even bother to seek us to scout us out as they would assume automatic win.
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stuckinbig10country
Ok, this sounds nice, but let me add something that you seem to be missing.



Chase Hansen. Jordan Loveridge. We are losing athletes to other schools (in these cases Utah) that we would most definitely get if we were to be added to a BCS conference. Sure, in basketball we still get the Haws and Emery type players. If we were in the Big 12, we get Loveridge and our chance of getting Parker goes up from 2% to 30% automatically.



People will counter this and say, "well they just aren't BYU type guys," and all of that crap. Chase Hansen's dad played at BYU. Loved BYU. Chase grew up a fan of the Y. He's the best QB prospect in Utah HS football in a generation. He's going to the other team.



Jason Buck's son, currently playing at a JC, will probably end up at Utah. This is Jason Buck's son. Buck is one of the all time BYU players and supporters.



And right now Utah has the football coaches in place to pull off the whole you can come to Utah and have a similar experience with regard to religion (ie, a lot of members, won't prevent you from going on a mission, the HC, OC, DC, and several position coaches are LDS) and still play high quality opponents week in and week out, as well as have a chance to play in the Rose Bowl or other BCS bowl every year. And Utah basketball has put in place some similar things in their coaching staff (at least one LDS member, if not 2).



No one outside of Utah cares about BYUtv. Most people don't even know they have it. This EXPOSURE that they think they are going to get from it is made up in their heads. No one is going to watch an instant replay of BYU-SJSU on BYUtv if they stumbled on the game on ESPNU on Saturday. They probably don't even know that it's going to be replayed. Hell, I'm a fan and thought the game was so boring, I didn't watch any of the replay (the one on BYUtv or ESPNU).



Also, unless BYU plays better in years 2-8 of the contract then they have this year, and scheduling improves, EXPOSURE and ACCESS will be limited to 2 watchESPN.com games, a Tuesday ESPN 2 game, and a Friday before conference ESPN game.
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Cougarbib
stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ok, this sounds nice, but let me add something that you seem to be missing.



Chase Hansen. Jordan Loveridge. We are losing athletes to other schools (in these cases Utah) that we would most definitely get if we were to be added to a BCS conference. Sure, in basketball we still get the Haws and Emery type players. If we were in the Big 12, we get Loveridge and our chance of getting Parker goes up from 2% to 30% automatically.



People will counter this and say, "well they just aren't BYU type guys," and all of that crap. Chase Hansen's dad played at BYU. Loved BYU. Chase grew up a fan of the Y. He's the best QB prospect in Utah HS football in a generation. He's going to the other team.



Jason Buck's son, currently playing at a JC, will probably end up at Utah. This is Jason Buck's son. Buck is one of the all time BYU players and supporters.



And right now Utah has the football coaches in place to pull off the whole you can come to Utah and have a similar experience with regard to religion (ie, a lot of members, won't prevent you from going on a mission, the HC, OC, DC, and several position coaches are LDS) and still play high quality opponents week in and week out, as well as have a chance to play in the Rose Bowl or other BCS bowl every year. And Utah basketball has put in place some similar things in their coaching staff (at least one LDS member, if not 2).



No one outside of Utah cares about BYUtv. Most people don't even know they have it. This EXPOSURE that they think they are going to get from it is made up in their heads. No one is going to watch an instant replay of BYU-SJSU on BYUtv if they stumbled on the game on ESPNU on Saturday. They probably don't even know that it's going to be replayed. Hell, I'm a fan and thought the game was so boring, I didn't watch any of the replay (the one on BYUtv or ESPNU).


I agree with the recruiting issues - but you missed the point. That is not what the Church and BYU are focused on. I was and am in favor of BIG 12. I am just explaining why, perhaps, focued on EXPOSURE and not so much ACCESS, MONEY, RECRUITING, and SCHEDULING and BCS ACCESS, the Church may have refused to give up some EXPOSURE. For that matter, ESPN might have held it s contract as some blockage.



If the Church could get EXPOSURE and the other stuff - with approriate concessions - Big 12 wouldhave happened. If Armageddon had happened - Big 12 would have happened.



Here is the main thing you missed - BYU TV. You probably won't give a hoot about BYU TV until the first time ESPN passes on a game, nobody else picks it up, and you can only get it on BYU TV. Some people will only be able to get the Oregon State game on BYU TV.



But ESPN games - even the off hours ones and maybe especially the off-hours ones are key to exposure.



And if you want to see interest in BYU football explode - well they need to start winning so that they are once again relevant.



I became a bit of a Hawaii fan years before I moved here and even though I had never even wanted to visit Hawaii simply because when I lived in California and was a college football junkie - and all the games had turned out the lights all over the country - all of a sudden the UH game was on.
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stuckinbig10country
They've already got me (at least for now), so yeah, I am glad KBYU has picked up the broadcasting rights for OSU, with some cooperation from FOX (who coincidentally is allowing an immediate rebroadcast on BYUtv, so it must not be that big of an issue in the end). Even with this EXPOSURE from being Independent, we almost didn't have ACCESS to our first game on any network in 6 years.



I think it's a good thing that the LA Tech game was cancelled this year, because I don't believe it would have been feasible to get that game on the air. BYU isn't taking the HD truck to Oregon State (using Fox setup and equipment) this weekend, so I doubt they would have been taking it to Rustin. That was a game ESPN was not going to pick up. Makes me wonder what happens at the game in San Jose, and even more so in Las Cruces next year.



The only true way to EXPOSURE for the school, church, program, etc is by winning and playing interesting games. If BYU continues to play like they have this year and last, which will happen if recruiting suffers even a little bit, ESPN will not put any more games on the air than they are contractually bound to (this year, I believe they gave us a bump as their lone exclusive contract), which means only people that care about ACCESS will be watching the other games on BYUtv, and EXPOSURE goes right out the window.



Also, by rejecting the Big 12, you actually hurt your other sports more than you do football. Even with the inherent problems of independence in football, it's nothing compared to the damage that the other sports will feel. You know, those 180 other sporting events BYU will have on BYUtv.
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CAFB_04-12
stuckinbig10country wrote:
BYU isn't taking the HD truck to Oregon State (using Fox setup and equipment) this weekend, so I doubt they would have been taking it to Rustin.

Scott Pierce is reporting that BYU will, in fact, roll their HD truck to Corvallis and produce the entire affair:



http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/52701556-88/byu-game-byutv-football.html.csp?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I am confident that BYU would, in fact, roll the HD truck to any venue where it could get broadcast rights if the game were not picked up by a national network. Otherwise, what point is there in having an HD truck? The stadium is already wired for HD.



With BYUtv and ESPN BYU gets exposure. Joining a BCS conference would yield access, to be sure. But look at the access Utah is getting this year--winning in the BCS conferences isn't easy or a given. Consistently winning in a BCS conference would take years to accomplish, and in off years BYU would seriously run a risk of going 4-8 or worse. While BCS membership is tempting, I think BYU would risk sliding into mediocrity more as part of the Big XII than it would as a football independent.



But Bronco says BCS access is more important to him (Deseret News today), and that makes sense too.
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SpiffCoug
stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ok, this sounds nice, but let me add something that you seem to be missing.



Chase Hansen. Jordan Loveridge. We are losing athletes to other schools (in these cases Utah) that we would most definitely get if we were to be added to a BCS conference. Sure, in basketball we still get the Haws and Emery type players. If we were in the Big 12, we get Loveridge and our chance of getting Parker goes up from 2% to 30% automatically.



People will counter this and say, "well they just aren't BYU type guys," and all of that crap. Chase Hansen's dad played at BYU. Loved BYU. Chase grew up a fan of the Y. He's the best QB prospect in Utah HS football in a generation. He's going to the other team.



Jason Buck's son, currently playing at a JC, will probably end up at Utah. This is Jason Buck's son. Buck is one of the all time BYU players and supporters.

Maybe Jason Buck's son just isn't that good. I hope BYU doesn't recruit kids based on who their dads were. I want players and contributors.



We didn't lose Hansen because of independence or Pac12. We lost Hansen because of Tanner Mangum. We didn't lose Loveridge because those either. We lost him because of the two guys you mentioned - better players were always coming to BYU.



We have no idea what Jabari Parker's going to do, to put percentages on it is simply asinine. I think the fact that he has routinely tweeted about general conference and sacrament meetings are a good sign for BYU.
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BigCougsFan
Hold on! Recruiting gets better the second we're in a BCS conference?



Which studs has Utah landed since they joined the gay conference???



The ONLY one they landed was sold on Utah way before Utah joined. Harvey Langi. He was wearing Utah gear to his own football games before he even announced his decision. BYU was only on his list, because of family.



Unless I'm blind??? Who have they landed?



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Cougarfan87
BigCougsFan wrote:
Hold on! Recruiting gets better the second we're in a BCS conference?



Which studs has Utah landed since they joined the gay conference???



The ONLY one they landed was sold on Utah way before Utah joined. Harvey Langi. He was wearing Utah gear to his own football games before he even announced his decision. BYU was only on his list, because of family.



Unless I'm blind??? Who have they landed?



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And as they flounder in the PAC 12, their recruiting will only get worse. Join me in this hypothetical recruiting visit--



Great LDS player X, I heard you are trying to decide between Utah and BYU. Here are your options:



One, you can go to Utah. There you will be in the PAC 12, but you really have no legitimate chance to play in the Rose Bowl because they suck. Furthermore, they aren't on TV very much...because they suck. And even if they were on TV, the entire East Coast would ignore it anyway because the games are too late, so you aren't going to get much exposure as an athlete.



Two, you could go to BYU. Yeah, they may not get into a title game, but they could get into a BCS game with their schedule. All of the other BCS busters have gone into BCS conferences where they regularly get pummeled--except Boise State--who we take care of ourselves. Practically every game will be seen on national TV, which means the East Coast is watching, ESPN is pimping your plays, and your dreams of becoming a high NFL draft pick have a far greater chance of becoming reality.



The choice is yours. Exit scene.



We outrecruited sucky BCS teams even when we were in the MWC without National Exposure--or at least I think we did. There is no reason to thing that Utah becoming a sucky BCS team changes any of that.
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kfilly20
Hansen went to the U because they told him he could play QB there and we wanted him to play defense. He will play defense at the U also.
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Devbo
In the last few years, I've gotten to the point where I don't really care about the BCS and where my teams are ranked. IMO CFB just isn't set up where that should/really matters. I just want to see my team play, and to play well. The rest is just icing on the cake. Would I like to see us go to and win a BCS game? Of course, but my experience isn't dependent on that.



Being in professional school in Illinois, I saw a grand total of 3 BYU games last year: USU, UTEP and 1 other on some random internet stream... This year I'll get to see every game live except for the OSU game, and that I can even see on game day. That's something to say for independence. I am pretty confident that I wouldn't see that many games if BYU was in the big 12 unless I was willing/could shell out money for an upgraded sports pack. (Not saying I'm anti big 12, because I'm not. Just pointing out how the current conditions relate to my particular circumstances).



More than likely, this will not be the last year where the future of CFB is foggy. Conferences might die, super conferences may or may not happen. They may not not last if they do. But for now, I am a happy camper because I get to see BYU every week.
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SpiffCoug
I think BYU oversold independence last year to the Board of Trustees. Now the BOT is balking at moving again, because they want to know why independence is no longer the great idea it was just 12 months ago and they enjoy the faith-based relationships of the WCC. Just my opinoin with no inside information.



I also think BYU has tried to make the Big 12 a football only thing and possibly even just a football and men's bball thing.
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Mingjai
Devbo wrote:
Being in professional school in Illinois, I saw a grand total of 3 BYU games last year: USU, UTEP and 1 other on some random internet stream... This year I'll get to see every game live except for the OSU game, and that I can even see on game day. That's something to say for independence. I am pretty confident that I wouldn't see that many games if BYU was in the big 12 unless I was willing/could shell out money for an upgraded sports pack. (Not saying I'm anti big 12, because I'm not. Just pointing out how the current conditions relate to my particular circumstances).


I mentioned this elsewhere, but I live in Chicago, have standard Comcast service, and have seen 4 of 5 Iowa State games (1 ESPN2, 1 FX, 2 FSN) this year when I have no interest in seeing the Cyclones. From the looks of it, I'll get to see 4 more (1 ABC, 1 ESPN2, 1 FX, 1 FSN) unless I actively try to avoid it. Outside of the Midwest, you might see less because your regional FSN might not choose to carry BYU, but I see no reason why being in the Big 12 would change exposure in general and your ability to view BYU games while in Illinois in particular.
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Gunk
Church/BYU isn't thinking with the right perspective. The best thing for exposure and access is to play on a national level. To play on a national level you need two things: wins against quality opponents and the athletes to do it.



As an independent we will have to run the table. And if we don't start running the table soon we lose athletes as it shows our program, coaches included, isn't capable of putting it together. If BSU can do it, why can't we?



In a BCS conference we get the quality opponents. If we drop a game or two we still go bowling on a national level. National level play draws interest and relevance from football fans, which draws eyeballs. National relevance draws top athletes.



The Church/BYU is focused on TV contracts, certainly relevant, but shouldn't be the primary focus. The primary focus should be on doing what it takes to compete on a national level. Exposure will follow.



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Cougarbib
Gunk wrote:



The Church/BYU is focused on TV contracts, certainly relevant, but shouldn't be the primary focus. The primary focus should be on doing what it takes to compete on a national level. Exposure will follow.







GUNK



To be blunt, BYU never has been able to compete on a national level other than 1 marquee win every decade or so against a legitimate Top 10 team. They are sub .500 in any stretch of our history Vs run of the mill BCS teams. It will always be that way unless the population of African Americans willing to come to BYU, stay at BYU, and follow the honor code increases 10 fold. Until then almost any BCS team will have superior athletes at CB, WR, RB, and Safety positions.







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redneckjedi
Gunk wrote:
Church/BYU isn't thinking with the right perspective. The best thing for exposure and access is to play on a national level. To play on a national level you need two things: wins against quality opponents and the athletes to do it.



As an independent we will have to run the table. And if we don't start running the table soon we lose athletes as it shows our program, coaches included, isn't capable of putting it together. If BSU can do it, why can't we?



In a BCS conference we get the quality opponents. If we drop a game or two we still go bowling on a national level. National level play draws interest and relevance from football fans, which draws eyeballs. National relevance draws top athletes.



The Church/BYU is focused on TV contracts, certainly relevant, but shouldn't be the primary focus. The primary focus should be on doing what it takes to compete on a national level. Exposure will follow.



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I'd be very careful before I called out the Church for thinking about something right. The guy running the outfit has a lot more perspective on this (and everything else, as well) than I do. A decade from now, we will still be enjoying Cougar football from around the world, it will still be very relevant on the national scene, and we'll look back at this time and think, "I'm glad those guys knew what they were doing."
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ABYUFAN
stuckinbig10country wrote:
EXPOSURE and ACCESS will be limited to 2 watchESPN.com games, a Tuesday ESPN 2 game, and a Friday before conference ESPN game.

I haven't read through this thread yet, so forgive me if this has been covered, but can we stop with the Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday potential game day argument. The contract is for Thursday, Friday and Saturday games, to use the other days of the week argument is week. It cannot happen.
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Mars
redneckjedi wrote:
Church/BYU isn't thinking with the right perspective. The best thing for exposure and access is to play on a national level.
I'd be very careful before I called out the Church for thinking about something right.

In SPORTS? I wouldn't.
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stuckinbig10country
ABYUFAN wrote:
EXPOSURE and ACCESS will be limited to 2 watchESPN.com games, a Tuesday ESPN 2 game, and a Friday before conference ESPN game.

I haven't read through this thread yet, so forgive me if this has been covered, but can we stop with the Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday potential game day argument. The contract is for Thursday, Friday and Saturday games, to use the other days of the week argument is week. It cannot happen.


Not according to Holmoe. He mentioned that other days are possible.



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Cougarbib
stuckinbig10country wrote:
stuckinbig10country wrote:
EXPOSURE and ACCESS will be limited to 2 watchESPN.com games, a Tuesday ESPN 2 game, and a Friday before conference ESPN game.

I haven't read through this thread yet, so forgive me if this has been covered, but can we stop with the Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday potential game day argument. The contract is for Thursday, Friday and Saturday games, to use the other days of the week argument is week. It cannot happen.


Not according to Holmoe. He mentioned that other days are possible.



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Especially when they televise more than the committed number of games.



What a tragedy - BYU might have to get the entire focus of the country on a week-night like BSU did when it built it's national cult following.



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