Archived Topic

At the end of the season

by stuckinbig10country · 10/10/2011

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stuckinbig10country
Who will be the starting QB?



I personally believe that this time on the bench will ultimately prove valuable for Heaps, but I think he's back under center possibly as soon 2 games from now (I think Riley struggles a little bit against OSU), but at least at some point this season.
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SpiffCoug
I think the only way Riley isn't the starter at the end of the season is due to injury.
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stuckinbig10country
Right now, I'm surprised that it's leaning the way it is. I thought I was the only one that thought this way.
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mormonrasta
SpiffCoug wrote:
I think the only way Riley isn't the starter at the end of the season is due to injury.


Good point, I should probably change my vote to Heaps. I appreciate Riley's toughness, but the fact that he tries to run though people so often means he's probably going to get hurt before the year is completed.
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stuckinbig10country
Spiff, what do you think happens with Heaps, not just this year but going forward?
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SpiffCoug
I think Riley finishes the year. Then coaches are going to have a real tough decision. Do you go into next spring with Riley as the presumptive starter? Do you give him the majority of reps, and make Heaps take the job from him with limited reps? Or do you go back to square 1 and go 50/50 in reps and then string out the battle into next fall camp?



I hope Bronco and coaches show real leadership and make a decision coming out of spring. This is what I would do.

1) Name Riley the starter the rest of 2011.

2) Before spring ball, name Riley the starter going into fall camp.

3) Tell Jake he'll be getting about 25-35% of the snaps the first week, with Riley getting the starter's share of snaps. Each week he'll have a chance to earn more reps based on his play that week in both practice and the scrimmage.

4) Name a starter following spring ball. If that starter is Riley, you ask Jake to redshirt.

5) You then ride Riley and have Lark/Munns back him up in 2012.



Jake is the "future" he has the most "potential" he is the "long term solution." But none of those words have to be in 2011 or 2012. Let's invest some time and coaching into Jake. If he's not ready, let's get him ready. Let's give him the time he needs to develop and distance himself from the undoubtedly bad taste the 2011 season is sure to leave in his mouth.
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Ungoy
I think the absolute worst thing for Heaps would be to toss him back in too early. He needs time to work these issues through his mind, and really pick up the game at a collage level. I firmly believe that will not happen with Jake taking the snaps in game. Heaps needs to watch the game from the sidelines, watch the other players on how they react and play, scout out how opposing defenses attack, and incorporate things into his play. The game will never slow down to him while he's out on the field. I believe Heaps will progress while on the sidelines. I hope the coaches wait to bring him back until he's ready, and I hope Doman takes time with Heaps (as QB coach) and continues to work and develop Heaps. When he's ready he'll play again, probably not this season, barring injury to Nelson, and whether or not he's ready for 2012, nobody can say, but I hope he comes back with new-found passion for the game knowing that he has to produce results or be benched.



I still think Heaps is going to be a great BYU QB, just not in 2011, or maybe even 2012 (redshirt).
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stuckinbig10country
SpiffCoug wrote:
I think Riley finishes the year. Then coaches are going to have a real tough decision. Do you go into next spring with Riley as the presumptive starter? Do you give him the majority of reps, and make Heaps take the job from him with limited reps? Or do you go back to square 1 and go 50/50 in reps and then string out the battle into next fall camp?



I hope Bronco and coaches show real leadership and make a decision coming out of spring. This is what I would do.

1) Name Riley the starter the rest of 2011.

2) Before spring ball, name Riley the starter going into fall camp.

3) Tell Jake he'll be getting about 25-35% of the snaps the first week, with Riley getting the starter's share of snaps. Each week he'll have a chance to earn more reps based on his play that week in both practice and the scrimmage.

4) Name a starter following spring ball. If that starter is Riley, you ask Jake to redshirt.

5) You then ride Riley and have Lark/Munns back him up in 2012.



Jake is the "future" he has the most "potential" he is the "long term solution." But none of those words have to be in 2011 or 2012. Let's invest some time and coaching into Jake. If he's not ready, let's get him ready. Let's give him the time he needs to develop and distance himself from the undoubtedly bad taste the 2011 season is sure to leave in his mouth.


Thank you. I may not agree with you, but I like the way you are describing this. I also think that there is a possibility that Heaps transfers if asked to redshirt. Don't know if I would blame him for that, and it might be a good thing for both him and the school at that point.



I also have to wonder how this will impact recruiting in the future. If, and that's a big if, the split between the upper classmen and lower classman, and RM's and non RM's, is in fact true, the problems of team chemistry will not go away any time soon.
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Cougarbib
SpiffCoug wrote:
I think the only way Riley isn't the starter at the end of the season is due to injury.

This
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Gunk
SpiffCoug wrote:
I think Riley finishes the year. Then coaches are going to have a real tough decision. Do you go into next spring with Riley as the presumptive starter? Do you give him the majority of reps, and make Heaps take the job from him with limited reps? Or do you go back to square 1 and go 50/50 in reps and then string out the battle into next fall camp?



I hope Bronco and coaches show real leadership and make a decision coming out of spring. This is what I would do.

1) Name Riley the starter the rest of 2011.

2) Before spring ball, name Riley the starter going into fall camp.

3) Tell Jake he'll be getting about 25-35% of the snaps the first week, with Riley getting the starter's share of snaps. Each week he'll have a chance to earn more reps based on his play that week in both practice and the scrimmage.

4) Name a starter following spring ball. If that starter is Riley, you ask Jake to redshirt.

5) You then ride Riley and have Lark/Munns back him up in 2012.



Jake is the "future" he has the most "potential" he is the "long term solution." But none of those words have to be in 2011 or 2012. Let's invest some time and coaching into Jake. If he's not ready, let's get him ready. Let's give him the time he needs to develop and distance himself from the undoubtedly bad taste the 2011 season is sure to leave in his mouth.


I agree with this scenario and think it's the best one for Heaps. My only concern with it it is based on performance in practice, Heaps is the better QB. Heaps pretty much performs better than Riley right now in practices; so, come next spring/fall how will the coaches really know who's the better QB?



Riley rises to the occasion come game time; Heaps wilts. So, unless Bronco goes live, full contact against Heaps and Riley in Fall camp there'll be no conclusive way to determine where Heaps is at.



Heaps is the long term QB, but he's already two years into his BYU career and not improving. I really don't understand why people want to keep playing him. I guess they hope/assume that if he keeps playing this season he'll improve dramatically. I just don't see it, though. So far, Riley has improved more from last season than Heaps. IMO, wiser decision is to let Heaps observe this season, maybe get a few series to let him practice what he's learning and then RS him next season and get the most out of your long-term QB. If Heaps were to continue, I don't see him turning it around until mid-season next year at best and all you'll get out of him is one good season.
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Cougarbib
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think Riley finishes the year. Then coaches are going to have a real tough decision. Do you go into next spring with Riley as the presumptive starter? Do you give him the majority of reps, and make Heaps take the job from him with limited reps? Or do you go back to square 1 and go 50/50 in reps and then string out the battle into next fall camp?



I hope Bronco and coaches show real leadership and make a decision coming out of spring. This is what I would do.

1) Name Riley the starter the rest of 2011.

2) Before spring ball, name Riley the starter going into fall camp.

3) Tell Jake he'll be getting about 25-35% of the snaps the first week, with Riley getting the starter's share of snaps. Each week he'll have a chance to earn more reps based on his play that week in both practice and the scrimmage.

4) Name a starter following spring ball. If that starter is Riley, you ask Jake to redshirt.

5) You then ride Riley and have Lark/Munns back him up in 2012.



Jake is the "future" he has the most "potential" he is the "long term solution." But none of those words have to be in 2011 or 2012. Let's invest some time and coaching into Jake. If he's not ready, let's get him ready. Let's give him the time he needs to develop and distance himself from the undoubtedly bad taste the 2011 season is sure to leave in his mouth.


Thank you. I may not agree with you, but I like the way you are describing this. I also think that there is a possibility that Heaps transfers if asked to redshirt. Don't know if I would blame him for that, and it might be a good thing for both him and the school at that point.



I also have to wonder how this will impact recruiting in the future. If, and that's a big if, the split between the upper classmen and lower classman, and RM's and non RM's, is in fact true, the problems of team chemistry will not go away any time soon.


There is always a split between upper classmen that have earned their spots and lower classmen that come in thinking they are going to start as a true freshman. STARS = CANCER. Big time programs deal with this annually. I really doubt that there is a big RM Vs non RM rift or LDS Vs non-LDS.



Highly touted freshmen and even some not so highly touted come in thinking they are going to take off right where they left off in high school. Of course they were dominant players in high school and it takes them a while to realize the filtering process that results in some very good players to compete with. And if the young guy has superior athleticism - they do not understand the value of experience - until they get experience.



Heaps knows he can throw harder and farther than Nelson. He sees it every day in practice. On the sidelines - he can and hopefully will observe what moxy and leadership look like. And he will understand that he has to play a more physical style of football to succeed at this level. Then we will see how badly he wants it.



I laugh every time I hear this transfer non-sense. If he takes his sub 100 PER somewhere else - do you think they are just going to pop him into a starter role? Texas had a Jake Heaps. We saw him. I read that he is transferring. I did not hear where he is transferring. Follow that story - I will predict right now without even knowing where he will go - he is not going to pop up next year as a starter at any school of any notariety. If he does - he is not going to perform any better than he did at Texas. He got benched for the same reason Heaps got benched. He was not cutting it.



Heaps is actually in a great position if he actually has the heart it takes to be a great QB. Worst case, he red-shirts a year behind a senior QB and gets the reins for two years - unless he can't beat out Munns. Meanwhile, he is always one snap away from getting another shot. It will be an absolute miracle if Nelson keeps running this hard and escapes injury until he graduates.
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imuakahuku
I am "concerned" about our QB situation. Riley reminded me of a high school QB out there. He threw a lot of ducks, some very ugly throws, and ran like he would against a team with only one or two D-1 players on it. On the other side of the coin, Jake has looked like a high school QB who gets that the othere side is all D-1 players and he is afraid of them. Neither one makes me feel all that good about the way they are playing. I hope either one or both are able to take their play up to D-1 caliber (to me neither one has shown they are D-1 caliber to this point or at least not "elite"- read BYU QB- caliber).



To me it is nearly a toss up except I don't think Riley can keep playing the way he did Sat. He took some pretty hard hits and got creamed by the DL early in the game. What happens when he gets hit like that again and again over the next few games. Even running backs get a break between plays but QB doesn't. I just don't see anyone being able to sustain that punishment and stay healthy. And if he tones it down does he then not make enough plays to beat teams like TCU or even OSU. We should be able to beat the ISU and Idaho's with deminished play but then what does that mean when we face next years early schedule? Just not letting me sleep all that well regarding our QB's. And IF we end up in B12 next year then what? I could handle starting Jake and taking the lumps this year except I just haven't seen him improve enough between starts. To me he kind of looks like he is already wondering what NFL team is going to draft him and all he needs to do is not get hurt (his tentative play where he scrambles or gets to 3 secs calls to mind the 3rd baseman in the movie Major League).
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frdbtr
I think Jake needs to spend a year running the scout team without a green shirt on. Sure didn't hurt Max Hall to do it.
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Cougs_Rule
Jake looked like a little kid on the sideline, including when he had no idea Riley was down, had no idea which helmet was his. BUt the point is, he looked relieved. Of course he and everybody else had high expectations. BUt that should be over now. I would hope that he could get some substantive time against ISU and NMSU. If he still cant get it done, redshirt him. Hopefully he even sees this with his NFL aspirations. Two solid years after a RS next year gives him the best chance at that.

Didnt Mcmahan play and then sit a year while another legend played and then he played his jr and sr years?
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SpiffCoug
Gunk wrote:
I agree with this scenario and think it's the best one for Heaps. My only concern with it it is based on performance in practice, Heaps is the better QB. Heaps pretty much performs better than Riley right now in practices; so, come next spring/fall how will the coaches really know who's the better QB?



Riley rises to the occasion come game time; Heaps wilts. So, unless Bronco goes live, full contact against Heaps and Riley in Fall camp there'll be no conclusive way to determine where Heaps is at.

This is why you name Riley the starter going into spring ball and tell Heaps he's going to receive fewer reps. This could/should add pressure to perform in those reduced reps. If he's going to win the starting job he's going to have to come from behind to do it. His margin for error will be much smaller than Riley's. You also weigh the scrimmages more heavily than the practices.



As for fall camp, that's why you name a starter coming out of camp and ask Heaps to red-shirt at that time. I'm still unsure - other than transferring - what the downside to asking Heaps to red-shirt is. It's telling Jake he's the future and they want to invest time into him so that future is ready from the word go.




Gunk wrote:
Heaps is the long term QB, but he's already two years into his BYU career and not improving. I really don't understand why people want to keep playing him. I guess they hope/assume that if he keeps playing this season he'll improve dramatically. I just don't see it, though. So far, Riley has improved more from last season than Heaps. IMO, wiser decision is to let Heaps observe this season, maybe get a few series to let him practice what he's learning and then RS him next season and get the most out of your long-term QB. If Heaps were to continue, I don't see him turning it around until mid-season next year at best and all you'll get out of him is one good season.

Everyone likes to say that Beck worked through his issues on the field. Beck also only had one winning season and was just above .500 for his career. Beck was only lights out his final eight-nine games of his career. I don't want to waste 3 1/4 years waiting for Heaps to be like that.



I'd rather have him spectacular for two full seasons than part of just one while he's figuring things out. I thought Beck should have red-shirted as well. I saw just about every spring and fall practice in 2004. I didn't think Matt Berry was much worse than Beck. I thought we could have invested time in Beck that would have served him well.
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Cougarbib
dmcougar wrote:
Jake looked like a little kid on the sideline, including when he had no idea Riley was down, had no idea which helmet was his. BUt the point is, he looked relieved. Of course he and everybody else had high expectations. BUt that should be over now. I would hope that he could get some substantive time against ISU and NMSU. If he still cant get it done, redshirt him. Hopefully he even sees this with his NFL aspirations. Two solid years after a RS next year gives him the best chance at that.

Didnt Mcmahan play and then sit a year while another legend played and then he played his jr and sr years?

Yes - Mark Wilson. Made Jim angry. Maybe that is why he was so feisty when he got the job.



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