Nelson: Still Not Eating Crow (at least, not 100%)

Brethren...after the first half, I was thinking that my assessment of Riley Nelson was going to force me to eat crow and admit I was completely wrong about him. I expected to come here and basically take my licks for several things, and was certain the Nelson can't throw posts would dominate this board...



Then, the second half happened.



I will say this, this team can game plan for Riley and keep the majority of his throws within 25 yards. Also, I was very impressed with the two deep balls that Riley threw that were right on the money. The playcalling was very effective...using the threat of Riley running to shift the defense and throwing back against that shift.



That being said...



The second half, the time when the defensive adjustments are made, is an illustration of my concerns with Nelson. I still expect this type of outcome for team that gameplan exclusively for him.



Nelson was very fortunate that the one surefire pick six was dropped and that his extraordinarily foolish decision to throw the football 40 yards in the air while being sacked was not picked off. It seemed that SJSU adjusted to the little screens and flare patterns, lined up in man and cover 2 sinks, and just begged Nelson to throw the ball to the intermediate and deep patterns. It worked like a charm.



When BYU plays a team with better athletes - even Oregon State - I still have doubts that a Nelson gameplan will work. Thus far, my stance remains that Nelson is not consistently a throwing threat. I do acknowledge that Nelson is proving that I need to temper some of my original assessment.



Nevertheless, on the whole, it was a positive night for Nelson and this BYU team and fan base should be happy with the win. I wish we just didn't appear to be a shade better than mediocre.



Enjoy Sunday.

All yesterday proved to me is this--with only one week of starter's reps in practice, Nelson ran this offense better than Heaps ran it against USU with 2 months of starter's reps.

snoscythe wrote:
All yesterday proved to me is this--with only one week of starter's reps in practice, Nelson ran this offense better than Heaps ran it against USU with 2 months of starter's reps.

Agreed.



The only problem is that Heaps' play this year is an abysmal comparison. Pretty much any qb we put in will look good compared to Heaps. So disappointing.



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Riley played very well in the first half. It was the best half of QB play in 2011 by BYU.



The second half left much to be desired. Some bad throws and bad decisions by Riley led some doubt to creep into the game that could have finished a complete blowout.



But despite those bad throws and decisions (and some drops) Riley was able to overcome those and get points and first downs on those final two games to seal the win.



It wasn't pretty, but it was still the best offensive game of the season by a mile. We had six scoring drives and in the first half we were scoring touchdowns. This put pressure on SJSU, which turned out to be too much.



Those who still aren't in the Riley camp need to get on board, because that game was so much better than anything we've had this year. There are still concerns out there, hopefully some coaching and tape review can fix some of those decision making abilities.



This was a good win to learn from. Each position group can learn from mistakes in a win.



Also, it was real nice to see Jordan Pendleton back out there. Kid is a stud. He makes the defense better.

I'll take a 150+ PER over Jake's abysmal 100's any day.

Schmoe wrote:
I'll take a 150+ PER over Jake's abysmal 100's any day.

What's ironic is that I saw more potential in Nelson last night than I've seen in Heaps all season. :bug:

pjmuli wrote:
Brethren...after the first half, I was thinking that my assessment of Riley Nelson was going to force me to eat crow and admit I was completely wrong about him. I expected to come here and basically take my licks for several things, and was certain the Nelson can't throw posts would dominate this board...



Then, the second half happened.



I will say this, this team can game plan for Riley and keep the majority of his throws within 25 yards. Also, I was very impressed with the two deep balls that Riley threw that were right on the money. The playcalling was very effective...using the threat of Riley running to shift the defense and throwing back against that shift.



That being said...



The second half, the time when the defensive adjustments are made, is an illustration of my concerns with Nelson. I still expect this type of outcome for team that gameplan exclusively for him.



Nelson was very fortunate that the one surefire pick six was dropped and that his extraordinarily foolish decision to throw the football 40 yards in the air while being sacked was not picked off. It seemed that SJSU adjusted to the little screens and flare patterns, lined up in man and cover 2 sinks, and just begged Nelson to throw the ball to the intermediate and deep patterns. It worked like a charm.



When BYU plays a team with better athletes - even Oregon State - I still have doubts that a Nelson gameplan will work. Thus far, my stance remains that Nelson is not consistently a throwing threat. I do acknowledge that Nelson is proving that I need to temper some of my original assessment.



Nevertheless, on the whole, it was a positive night for Nelson and this BYU team and fan base should be happy with the win. I wish we just didn't appear to be a shade better than mediocre.



Enjoy Sunday.

I didn't see the SJSU's defense adjust and stop Nelson, we didn't punt even one time in this game. The only time BYU was stopped was when we stopped ourselves. Nelson needs to be more careful with the ball. Needs to secure it in traffic and not throw into coverage. Nelson is the guy. That is the best the offense has looked all year. His arm is fine and can make any throw that he needs to make.

I'll eat crow for the last year and a half. Riley is better than last year for sure.

For the last week, I will not eat crow. I called one-half of Riley ball will work and that's exactly what we saw. Wow, some of you are pretty forgiving about a fumble and pick in the blue-zone in the first half.

THIS IS THE WORST TEAM WE HAVE PLAYED! It should have been a blow out! And if this was Texas, we would have lost worse than we did. Riley is on a heroes journey toward injury. And he deserves a ton of credit. Its a pretty big step forward and I cant wait to see with another week of prep and reps how he does against a "better" team, though still a bad team. And yes, at current, RIley looks to be the best we have with a slow, fat, mediocre line who cant pass protect against teams with better than average ability--which is most of our schedule.

So, does Riley deserve the blame for the second half? What was his PER in that half? We had 50 yards of passing??????? So, does he deserve the blame?

Yes, he deserves blame for a poor passing half in the second. Although he led the offense to Rise Up on the final two drives to help seal the win. Taken as a whole, I'd give him an A- for the first half and a C- for the second half.

I know Heaps defenders took arrows from Heaps haters when we blamed receivers, but Riley does deserve some slack in one of those late drives. He threw a perfect throw to MArcus and MArcus dropped the ball. It was a drive killer and some believe he could have scored a TD if he would have caught the ball (I havent seen the replay). The drive continues we score a TD and Riley salvages a weak 2nd half. MArcus gets a pass form me. He has been our most consistent WR/TE this season.

dmcougar wrote:

THIS IS THE WORST TEAM WE HAVE PLAYED!

They are no worse than USU, and Riley played a hell of a lot better, even with the fumble and pick, than Jake did last week.

I expect everyone who has said that Nelson cannot throw the ball further than 10 yards to eat crow and eat crow hard. Those that refuse to admit that no longer deserve responses to.



Questions and comments about decision making process and timing issues with other players are valid and should be fixed. My hope is that actually starting to get starters practice reps will help.

hawkwing wrote:
I expect everyone who has said that Nelson cannot throw the ball further than 10 yards to eat crow and eat crow hard. Those that refuse to admit that no longer deserve responses to.



Questions and comments about decision making process and timing issues with other players are valid and should be fixed. My hope is that actually starting to get starters practice reps will help.

Remember the pick on the 30 yard "bomb" to Jacobson that was 10 yards underthrown ?



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kfilly20 wrote:

I expect everyone who has said that Nelson cannot throw the ball further than 10 yards to eat crow and eat crow hard. Those that refuse to admit that no longer deserve responses to.



Questions and comments about decision making process and timing issues with other players are valid and should be fixed. My hope is that actually starting to get starters practice reps will help.

Remember the pick on the 30 yard "bomb" to Jacobson that was 10 yards underthrown ?



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Remember the 40 yard "bombs" this week and last week that were perfectly thrown?

The 40 yard pass last week was somewhat less than perfect. The one this week was money.



There was only one pass Nelson attempted that is a throw he can't, and shouldn't attempt to make.



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Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
I expect everyone who has said that Nelson cannot throw the ball further than 10 yards to eat crow and eat crow hard. Those that refuse to admit that no longer deserve responses to.



Questions and comments about decision making process and timing issues with other players are valid and should be fixed. My hope is that actually starting to get starters practice reps will help.

Remember the pick on the 30 yard "bomb" to Jacobson that was 10 yards underthrown ?



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Remember the 40 yard "bombs" this week and last week that were perfectly thrown?

Hey, the TD pass to Mckay was a very sweet throw.

Schmoe, most of us have moved forward have you? My point is, sjsu is a bad team, bad corners, etc, etc. We'll see better next week. So one game at a time.

Riley is prone to underthrow as much as Jake is to overthrow. Underthrown balls give our guys a better chance to compete for it and catch it.



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I think the interesting thing nobody is mentioning is that on the 40 yard TD bomb to Jacobson, is that Riley was standing on the 50 yard line and hit McKay in-stride right around the 1 or 2 yard line. That's nearly a 50 yard in the air perfect pass. The guy has plenty of arm needed to run this offense. Now, can he take care of the ball? Did anyone else see a little bit of Detmer out there? Gunslinging with no fear...

pjmuli wrote:
Brethren...after the first half, I was thinking that my assessment of Riley Nelson was going to force me to eat crow and admit I was completely wrong about him. I expected to come here and basically take my licks for several things, and was certain the Nelson can't throw posts would dominate this board...



Then, the second half happened.



I will say this, this team can game plan for Riley and keep the majority of his throws within 25 yards. Also, I was very impressed with the two deep balls that Riley threw that were right on the money. The playcalling was very effective...using the threat of Riley running to shift the defense and throwing back against that shift.



That being said...



The second half, the time when the defensive adjustments are made, is an illustration of my concerns with Nelson. I still expect this type of outcome for team that gameplan exclusively for him.



Nelson was very fortunate that the one surefire pick six was dropped and that his extraordinarily foolish decision to throw the football 40 yards in the air while being sacked was not picked off. It seemed that SJSU adjusted to the little screens and flare patterns, lined up in man and cover 2 sinks, and just begged Nelson to throw the ball to the intermediate and deep patterns. It worked like a charm.



When BYU plays a team with better athletes - even Oregon State - I still have doubts that a Nelson gameplan will work. Thus far, my stance remains that Nelson is not consistently a throwing threat. I do acknowledge that Nelson is proving that I need to temper some of my original assessment.



Nevertheless, on the whole, it was a positive night for Nelson and this BYU team and fan base should be happy with the win. I wish we just didn't appear to be a shade better than mediocre.



Enjoy Sunday.

Name one game this year where the team has made 2nd half adjustments. It's not Nelson.

hawkwing wrote:
I expect everyone who has said that Nelson cannot throw the ball further than 10 yards to eat crow and eat crow hard. Those that refuse to admit that no longer deserve responses to.



Questions and comments about decision making process and timing issues with other players are valid and should be fixed. My hope is that actually starting to get starters practice reps will help.

Sorry...but this seems a bit unreasonable. Maybe instead of focusing on where we are different, let me phrase this in a way that may emphasize where we agree.



Nelson has proven that he can make the needed throws and that BYU can scheme to his strengths.



Nelson has yet to prove that he can make the needed throws consistently enough to remove all doubt and it is still quite possible that defenses can scheme to Nelson's weakness.



This to me is a fair restate. I have a hard time thinking that the second half of this game would not make someone doubt...at least for a second...that when a defense adjusts to not over pursue the scramble and drops into sink coverage, that they think they will get Nelson to give them the ball through the air. That appears to me to be exactly what happened in the second half against one of the worst defenses in the nation.



For those who say it was not because of defensive adjustments...when why the stark contrast between halves? We did make offensive adjustments...we quit throwing the ball. I don't think that is just because it is what the defense was giving us - it was because Nelson started turning the ball over and was fortunate other potential picks were dropped.



So, at least for the intent of my comments on Nelson's throwing ability, I don't think we have crossed the threshold where I should eat crow hard...yet.

mizzoucoug wrote:

Brethren...after the first half, I was thinking that my assessment of Riley Nelson was going to force me to eat crow and admit I was completely wrong about him. I expected to come here and basically take my licks for several things, and was certain the Nelson can't throw posts would dominate this board...



Then, the second half happened.



I will say this, this team can game plan for Riley and keep the majority of his throws within 25 yards. Also, I was very impressed with the two deep balls that Riley threw that were right on the money. The playcalling was very effective...using the threat of Riley running to shift the defense and throwing back against that shift.



That being said...



The second half, the time when the defensive adjustments are made, is an illustration of my concerns with Nelson. I still expect this type of outcome for team that gameplan exclusively for him.



Nelson was very fortunate that the one surefire pick six was dropped and that his extraordinarily foolish decision to throw the football 40 yards in the air while being sacked was not picked off. It seemed that SJSU adjusted to the little screens and flare patterns, lined up in man and cover 2 sinks, and just begged Nelson to throw the ball to the intermediate and deep patterns. It worked like a charm.



When BYU plays a team with better athletes - even Oregon State - I still have doubts that a Nelson gameplan will work. Thus far, my stance remains that Nelson is not consistently a throwing threat. I do acknowledge that Nelson is proving that I need to temper some of my original assessment.



Nevertheless, on the whole, it was a positive night for Nelson and this BYU team and fan base should be happy with the win. I wish we just didn't appear to be a shade better than mediocre.



Enjoy Sunday.

Name one game this year where the team has made 2nd half adjustments. It's not Nelson.

We did against SJSU. We quit throwing.